Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...

[astro]

Is that what they do with China, India, America etc
If not how do you explain the amount of goods from these country's flowing into Europe?

China, India, America etc. are not part of the European common market

 

[DirtyFrank]

By the way Astro...I apologise..Thought you got personal so responded in kind. It was unnecessary on my part. We can disagree vehemently without disrespecting each other.

 

[astro]

By the way Astro...I apologise..Thought you got personal so responded in kind. It was unnecessary on my part. We can disagree vehemently without disrespecting each other.

No problem

 

[Diego]

Do you know what the tariff on buying good from us is?

No thought not.

Everything is different but it 10-15% on some stuff

If you think for one second China or us has free trade you are wrong. That's the whole whine about ttip.

And you still manage to trade with a closed market, if you have goods people want/need they will buy them.

 

[Diego]

China, India, America etc. are not part of the European common market

I am happy to see you realise that much at least. Now, can you tell me how they manage to trade with that market and get so many goods into Europe?
(the shops in England are flooded with Chinese and Indian goods as are most of Europe)

 

[astro]

And you still manage to trade with a closed market, if you have goods people want/need they will buy them.

And we get to pay about 15-20% markups on iPhones, PlayStations etc.

Now that kind of markup might apply not just to a new phone every couple of years but 50% of everything imported into the country. Brilliant.

 

[afcftw]

Indeed ...it was a sham and an unneeded one from the point of strategy of Brexit...

They tried to make out they could have everything. It was an either or at least right away.

Either: continue to concentrate on EU as main market. The downside being why leave with current EU leaders and structure because they at this moment with insist on free movement..

Or: EU is a sess pit and we believe by having a more limited market in the EU by refusing restrictions or free movement of Labour; we can concentrate on developing unilateral trade agreements with the rest of the world; specifically the common wealth with its curret growth exceeding that of the EU..it will take time but we believe it will make us more in the long run...better yet we believe by exiting, the EU will come to their senses on free movement because it's even unpopular in the Eurozone countries and we can redevelop a better trade deal once they reevaluate migration...

It's an argument that would have divided the economic experts that remain pointed to. It's also an argument that would have fit more neatly with their points based migration control...

Instead...they tried to pretend they could have same trade deal without free migration from EU and top up with rest of world...frightened to say they'd risk our current main market for new ones...it looked and smelled like bullshit...silly.

Yeah it should have been made clear that it was likely that access to the common market meant compromise on free movement of labour. So either try to keep proper access to the common market and make trade deals round the world but accept immigration wouldn't be effected, or focus on trade deals around the world with a more limited access to the common market and better controls of immigration. Not just all the good stuff and none of the issues.

And likewise the remain campaign shouldn't have been so misleading with there scaremongering tactics and negative campaign.

It really annoyed me tbh that the campaign wasn't fought on fair, honest facts, giving the people an informed choice, but was rather about convincing people by any means to vote the way the campaigns thought was best.

 

[astro]

Yeah it should have been made clear that it was likely that access to the common market meant compromise on free movement of labour. So either try to keep proper access to the common market and make trade deals round the world but accept immigration wouldn't be effected, or focus on trade deals around the world with a more limited access to the common market and better controls of immigration. Not just all the good stuff and none of the issues.

And likewise the remain campaign shouldn't have been so misleading with there scaremongering tactics and negative campaign.

It really annoyed me tbh that the campaign wasn't fought on fair, honest facts, giving the people an informed choice, but was rather about convincing people by any means to vote the way the campaigns thought was best.

What misleading scaremongering? The markets are crushed, businesses are making plans to move abroad, there's no plan at all for what our trade treaty is going to look like, universities are begging students not to abandon the UK, research grants are decimated, councils are looking to plug multi-million pound budget shortfalls, and Gibraltar, Scotland and Northern Ireland are looking to leave the UK. Day one.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

China, India, America etc. are not part of the European common market

Don't bother there... Anyone with half a brain knows if a company can load a container with crap from China that costs 5p each when the uk equivalent is 80p no duty can stop it.

I remember trying my damnest to buy off a UK firm but the Chinese **** was ****ter, we threw 10% away and it was still 5 times less.

India have punitized tariffs. We had to ship stuff there in bulk for them to pack out cos the rate on finished goods was 80%


The point is the cost of commodity goods or in case of American goods items you can't get anywhere else is utterly irrelevant when you are talking about uk businesses set up to trade 50% of exports to eu at 0% tax and not it could be 15% and more than wipe out their margins.

 

[Diego]

And we get to pay about 15-20% markups on iPhones, PlayStations etc.

Now that kind of markup might apply not just to a new phone every couple of years but 50% of everything imported into the country. Brilliant.

Not if we don't put that markup on the goods we don't produce. If somebody else was producing a phone better than Apple (I actually prefer Samsung) then people would buy it, they instead choose to buy Apple (Samsung) with the tariff because it's what they want.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I am happy to see you realise that much at least. Now, can you tell me how they manage to trade with that market and get so many goods into Europe?
(the shops in England are flooded with Chinese and Indian goods as are most of Europe)

Wow you don't get the cost of goods at all do you.

 

[Zanjinho]

And we get to pay about 15-20% markups on iPhones, PlayStations etc.

Now that kind of markup might apply not just to a new phone every couple of years but 50% of everything imported into the country. Brilliant.

Not if you buy **** from eBay ;-)

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Not if we don't put that markup on the goods we don't produce. If somebody else was producing a phone better than Apple (I actually prefer Samsung) then people would buy it, they instead choose to buy Apple (Samsung) with the tariff because it's what they want.

Name the uk brands you think are so compelling.

You really don't get it imo.

Uk food exports... in serious danger. Will need to trade to Russia and break sanction or to China etc now.

Rolls Royse are one company I think won't be devastated but there's precious little uk have than can be got elsewhere easily.

 

[carlthejackal]

Extend the logic....Most macro economic policies are complex...running departments as big as the NHS, Foreign Office etc are complex.

Fairly sure most of the electorate don't know the first thing about most of how what is provided to them is operated. Just as long as they get it.

He does mean to be patronising and it depresses me...even after the ordinary person, using the wrong medium granted, has told the elites to stop patronising them...what do they do?

Guardianistas call them little Englanders.

Academics tell them they are not smart enough.

The labour party tells them they are so stupid they not only voted for the Tories they voted Brexit.

Only people not getting it are the elites..and until they do...this will happen time and time again. Anger...distrust...acting out.

So to extend the logic...why give anyone that isn't deemed fit the vote at all..I mean voting Tory? Disqualification...Etc etc.

Sounds very like the arguments before universal suffrage...the kind of thing the old Tories would say about the peasants...blacks... women...too immature..too child like...too emotional.

I find it hilarious that it's coming from the supposed people who claim to represent and fight for the ordinary folk.

We demand democracy! As long as the result goes our way!

May be I am bitter but I honestly think that some Leave voters fell for the Brexiteers lies hook line and sinker. Lies around the money paid to the EU, lies about the prosperity after Brexit, lies about Turkey. Many voters have apparently been shocked by the instant effect of the vote result. "We didn't expect that. The pound and stock market fall, etc"

I find it depressing that such a massive earth shattering decision could have been made on the basis of untruths, hype, and emotion. And again the old gits have shafted the youngsters, after having benefitted massively from free utility shares, free university education, early retirement age, final salary and tax free savings pensions. And now they are leaving a country which is isolated, and deeply divided and soon to be broken into 4 separate bits.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

What misleading scaremongering? The markets are crushed, businesses are making plans to move abroad, there's no plan at all for what our trade treaty is going to look like, universities are begging students not to abandon the UK, research grants are decimated, councils are looking to plug multi-million pound budget shortfalls, and Gibraltar, Scotland and Northern Ireland are looking to leave the UK. Day one.

That may be a slight exaggeration there.

It's not that bad day one.

 

[astro]

Not if we don't put that markup on the goods we don't produce. If somebody else was producing a phone better than Apple (I actually prefer Samsung) then people would buy it, they instead choose to buy Apple (Samsung) with the tariff because it's what they want.

OK. Ignoring that a UK company isn't going to magically create a phone better and cheaper than Apple (Samsung is South Korean BTW), what about stuff like fruits, wine? Are we going to cut them out of our diet? Or continue buying them for 15% more than yesterday? i.e. we are 15% poorer (or 7.5% because it's only 50% imports) than yesterday. And that's before considering the tax rate increase, petrol price increase etc. that are on the books.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

May be I am bitter but I honestly think that some Leave voters fell for the Brexiteers lies hook line and sinker. Lies around the money paid to the EU, lies about the prosperity after Brexit, lies about Turkey. Many voters have apparently been shocked by the instant effect of the vote result. "We didn't expect that. The pound and stock market fall, etc"

I find it depressing that such a massive earth shattering decision could have been made on the basis of untruths, hype, and emotion. And again the old gits have shafted the youngsters, after having benefitted massively from free utility shares, free university education, early retirement age, final salary and tax free savings pensions. And now they are leaving a country which is isolated, and deeply divided and soon to be broken into 4 separate bits.

No I can't blame leave campaign for idiocy.

If anyone opened their ears at all they would have expected what's happened today... the fact is its not been as bad as I expected.

What I find amazing is people have accepted a mere 72% turn out. That's actually very little in a decision of such magnitude. I would have expected 80+

 

[astro]

That may be a slight exaggeration there.

It's not that bad day one.

TBF this is day -7 or something, we haven't invoked Article 50 yet though Europe are already heckling us to get a move on and **** off already.

 

[afcftw]

What misleading scaremongering? The markets are crushed, businesses are making plans to move abroad, there's no plan at all for what our trade treaty is going to look like, universities are begging students not to abandon the UK, research grants are decimated, councils are looking to plug multi-million pound budget shortfalls, and Gibraltar, Scotland and Northern Ireland are looking to leave the UK. Day one.

You ask what misleading scaremongering and then manage to include some if it within the rest of your post. The markets have dropped but not by the catastrophic levels predicted. We haven't started world war 3 yet, ISIS haven't started celebrating in the streets at our now defunct security services etc... And as for Scotland, NI and Gibraltar looking to leave that's a load of rubbish. Yes the SNP are sabre ratting but even the smallest amount of research will show it is a very, very unlikely scenario for them to leave. I haven't looked into the NI situation but I'm pretty sure economically they aren't in a position to go for independance and Gibraltar haven't asked for independance, the Spanish authorities have seized on the vote to suggest dual sovereignty.

 

[astro]

Not if you buy **** from eBay ;-)

Better hope the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 is one of the EU directives that survives Brexit then