Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...

[DirtyFrank]

Richard Dawkins said in an interview that the issues in the referendum were too complex for most of the general population to understand within that tight time frame.

He said he didn't mean to be patronising. I think that he has a point. We did discuss before the vote how some people would just go with their gut/basic instinct: migration means no school places or council housing.

The Welsh didn't even realise that a lot if their income was from the EU.

Extend the logic....Most macro economic policies are complex...running departments as big as the NHS, Foreign Office etc are complex.

Fairly sure most of the electorate don't know the first thing about most of how what is provided to them is operated. Just as long as they get it.

He does mean to be patronising and it depresses me...even after the ordinary person, using the wrong medium granted, has told the elites to stop patronising them...what do they do?

Guardianistas call them little Englanders.

Academics tell them they are not smart enough.

The labour party tells them they are so stupid they not only voted for the Tories they voted Brexit.

Only people not getting it are the elites..and until they do...this will happen time and time again. Anger...distrust...acting out.

So to extend the logic...why give anyone that isn't deemed fit the vote at all..I mean voting Tory? Disqualification...Etc etc.

Sounds very like the arguments before universal suffrage...the kind of thing the old Tories would say about the peasants...blacks... women...too immature..too child like...too emotional.

I find it hilarious that it's coming from the supposed people who claim to represent and fight for the ordinary folk.

We demand democracy! As long as the result goes our way!

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Extend the logic....Most macro economic policies are complex...running departments as big as the NHS, Foreign Office etc are complex.

Fairly sure most of the electorate don't know the first thing about most of how what is provided to them is operated. Just as long as they get it.

He does mean to be patronising and it depresses me...even after the ordinary person, using the wrong medium granted, has told the elites to stop patronising them...what do they do?

Guardianistas call them little Englanders.

Academics tell them they are not smart enough.

The labour party tells them they are so stupid they not only voted for the Tories they voted Brexit.

Only people not getting it are the elites..and until they do...this will happen time and time again. Anger...distrust...acting out.

So to extend the logic...why give anyone that isn't deemed fit the vote at all..I mean voting Tory? Disqualification...Etc etc.

Sounds very like the arguments before universal suffrage...the kind of thing the old Tories would say about the peasants...blacks... women...too immature..too child like...too emotional.

I find it hilarious that it's coming from the supposed people who claim to represent and fight for the ordinary folk.

We demand democracy! As long as the result goes our way!

Evidently 75% of under 25's voted Remain. I've given up on my fellow bigoted, self-****ing-centred Baby Boomer ****ers. Labour should concentrate primarily on them (the young) and see who else will come along, as opposed to chasing Wayne, Waynetta and Alf Garnett and hoping the young will come along too. **** them. Let Nigel have them.

 

[DirtyFrank]

It's not coincidental. More educated people tend to both be better off and to vote remain.

Liverpool voted remain, not because it is rich, because it has seen the UK government leave the city to die and the EU then invest in it.

Also cities with large university populations voted remain more.

It's a correlation between understanding the issue and voting remain. On the other hand the reasons given by people who voted leave are either lies or misunderstandings.

So what's the difference between Liverpool and Wales? Both famous Working class areas...both having their industry ripped out by the Tories...both "left to die". Both have been saved by the EU. So that ****s that explanation...

And Liverpool had a small turnout compared to the national ...so yeah, really committed to the issues eh?

Spinning round and round in contradictions to explain what a lot just don't get..

It's not the working class areas that didn't get it...it's everyone else....and the warnings were there from the start...those warnings were laughed at and dismissed as nonsense...

Seriously...they may be "stupid" but this result is as much a direct response of the arrogance of others as it is a lack 0of understanding of the facts...in fact it wasn't about the EU..and that was clear early on...but ignored. Labour crys now but they went to the door steps...heard what was happening and said nothing until it was too late...

Time people just accepted they have ****ed up and ignored and dismissed a vast block of the nations people to everyone's detriment and start fixing it rather than sitting in ivory towers pontificating about how stupid some of the lowest paid..poorest accommodated people in the country are...want them to give educated decisions? Little more time educating them instead of calling them names and dismissing their concerns...

 

[DirtyFrank]

Evidently 75% of under 25's voted Remain. I've given up on my fellow bigoted, self-****ing-centred Baby Boomer ****ers. Labour should concentrate primarily on them (the young) and see who else will come along, as opposed to chasing Wayne, Waynetta and Alf Garnett and hoping the young will come along too. **** them. Let Nigel have them.

Asked this all day in response to that soundbite without getting an answer anywhere...find me the turnout % of that demographic...

 

[Zanjinho]

So what's the difference between Liverpool and Wales? Both famous Working class areas...both having their industry ripped out by the Tories...both "left to die". Both have been saved by the EU. So that ****s that explanation...

And Liverpool had a small turnout compared to the national ...so yeah, really committed to the issues eh?

Spinning round and round in contradictions to explain what a lot just don't get..

It's not the working class areas that didn't get it...it's everyone else....and the warnings were there from the start...those warnings were laughed at and dismissed as nonsense...

Seriously...they may be "stupid" but this result is as much a direct response of the arrogance of others as it is a lack 0of understanding of the facts...in fact it wasn't about the EU..and that was clear early on...but ignored. Labour crys now but they went to the door steps...heard what was happening and said nothing until it was too late...

Time people just accepted they have ****ed up and ignored and dismissed a vast block of the nations people to everyone's detriment and start fixing it rather than sitting in ivory towers pontificating about how stupid some of the lowest paid..poorest accommodated people in the country are...want them to give educated decisions? Little more time educating them instead of calling them names and dismissing their concerns...

Same for where I live. Tories left load's of pit villages without a pit. European and Regeneration monies help rebuild. We just got 70%+ in favour of leave!

 

[Zanjinho]

Google announced that "What is the EU?" is the second top UK question on the EU since the [HASHTAG]#EURefResults[/HASHTAG] were officially announced. That's scary!

 

[DirtyFrank]

Same for where I live. Tories left load's of pit villages without a pit. European and Regeneration monies help rebuild. We just got 70%+ in favour of leave!

With a high turn out I bet...seems the educated must all have walking difficulties...

With with lol

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Asked this all day in response to that soundbite without getting an answer anywhere...find me the turnout % of that demographic...

Just on the BBC with Nick Robinson before Enders. I'll do my best - after Enders!

 

[Zanjinho]

With a high turn out I bet...seems the educated must all have walking difficulties...

With with lol

Think the turn out was 72%. Usual about 30-40% for elections

 

[DirtyFrank]

Just on the BBC with Nick Robinson before Enders. I'll do my best - after Enders!

No worries...it wasn't a snark at you...I've searched everywhere with nothing going that deep and I was like how do they have this and not that figure...I then found out that 75% stat came from an exit poll not actual voting statistics....

The figures will come out eventually...

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...fferent-demographic-groups-vote-eu-referendum

Admittedly this is based on a poll that give Remain a 4% lead...

But with it being a secret ballot it's the closest we can get.

 

[astro]

No worries...it wasn't a snark at you...I've searched everywhere with nothing going that deep and I was like how do they have this and not that figure...I then found out that 75% stat came from an exit poll not actual voting statistics....

The figures will come out eventually...

Er, yes it came from a [HASHTAG]#poll[/HASHTAG], as opposed to what? Official voting statistics are illegal [HASHTAG]#secretballot[/HASHTAG]

Were you also one of those googling "what is the EU?"

 

[DirtyFrank]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...fferent-demographic-groups-vote-eu-referendum

Admittedly this is based on a poll that give Remain a 4% lead...

But with it being a secret ballot it's the closest we can get.

Yeah thought it was exit but that says pre vote poll.

1700 odd sample..surely they did some extrapolation of turnout?

Traditionally that age group is the lowest turn out...next lowest 25-39 the next most likely to vote remain...which would explain the lower turnout in the Remain winning areas....and that's one of the things that's pissed me off today.

Repeating myself but it was a numbers election....so the enlightened areas couldn't be arsed and even the so called intelligent people in the out dominant areas apparently didn't turn out in force...if the theory that Brexit voters were coming out strong explains the high turn out there...

Just a match in turnout in remain areas (other than london which was quite high) with a 2% increase in Brexit areas of Remain voters and remain wins..

Apparently the intelligent, non racist enlightened voters didnt get the idea of simple addition...

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Anyway, just found an old ELO's greatest hits CD in a cupboard when looking for something else. Think I'll play that tonight on my way into work to cheer me up.

 

[DirtyFrank]

Er, yes it came from a [HASHTAG]#poll[/HASHTAG], as opposed to what? Official voting statistics are illegal [HASHTAG]#secretballot[/HASHTAG]

Were you also one of those googling "what is the EU?"

Actually it depends on the voting system and voting method...but I'm sure you knew that...answered myself in follow up post as to how they could have one supposed stat and not the other...

Get back to United Astro...your regurgitation of guardian soundbites shows your limitation in this convo.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Yeah thought it was exit but that says pre vote poll.

1700 odd sample..surely they did some extrapolation of turnout?

Traditionally that age group is the lowest turn out...next lowest 25-39 the next most likely to vote remain...which would explain the lower turnout in the Remain winning areas....and that's one of the things that's pissed me off today.

Repeating myself but it was a numbers election....so the enlightened areas couldn't be arsed and even the so called intelligent people in the out dominant areas apparently didn't turn out in force...if the theory that Brexit voters were coming out strong explains the high turn out there...

Just a match in turnout in remain areas (other than london which was quite high) with a 2% increase in Brexit areas of Remain voters and remain wins..

Apparently the intelligent, non racist enlightened voters didnt get the idea of simple addition...

Yes, I get the point and it's valid. I related the story of my daughter's group of friends at uni and in Stockton (and her old schoolfriends here). She and I were staggered at the apathy of some of them, and at least two uni students seemed unaware that numbers counted and 'Brexit will walk it here (Middlesbrough) anyway'. I did refer to this back in the thread over a week ago when I said Brexit would win and Remain were hoping for a youth vote that wouldn't get out of bed.

 

[afcftw]

Yeah thought it was exit but that says pre vote poll.

1700 odd sample..surely they did some extrapolation of turnout?

Traditionally that age group is the lowest turn out...next lowest 25-39 the next most likely to vote remain...which would explain the lower turnout in the Remain winning areas....and that's one of the things that's pissed me off today.

Repeating myself but it was a numbers election....so the enlightened areas couldn't be arsed and even the so called intelligent people in the out dominant areas apparently didn't turn out in force...if the theory that Brexit voters were coming out strong explains the high turn out there...

Just a match in turnout in remain areas (other than london which was quite high) with a 2% increase in Brexit areas of Remain voters and remain wins..

Apparently the intelligent, non racist enlightened voters didnt get the idea of simple addition...

There were floods in London with road and public transport closures and a couple of moved polling stations and they said at the start of the BBC coverage last night that they thought it could be a 2-3% difference in voter turnout for London because of the weather. So numbers for London could potentially have been slightly higher than the already decent turnouts.

It was a very close run thing, seems to have split the country right down the middle

 

[afcftw]

Yes, I get the point and it's valid. I related the story of my daughter's group of friends at uni and in Stockton (and her old schoolfriends here). She and I were staggered at the apathy of some of them, and at least two uni students seemed unaware that numbers counted and 'Brexit will walk it here (Middlesbrough) anyway'. I did refer to this back in the thread over a week ago when I said Brexit would win and Remain were hoping for a youth vote that wouldn't get out of bed.

There were people on this site yesterday asking how the winner was decided...

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

There were floods in London with road and public transport closures and a couple of moved polling stations and they said at the start of the BBC coverage last night that they thought it could be a 2-3% difference in voter turnout for London because of the weather. So numbers for London could potentially have been slightly higher than the already decent turnouts.

It was a very close run thing, seems to have split the country right down the middle

I remember after the Scotland vote when Sisu was claiming it was fiddle to do with pencils and ballot boxes and Lord knows what. 'But it was a 10% difference you ****ing moron, not 1 or 2 per cent!'. As it happens, this is under 2%, BUT a difference of well over a million. 'Right down the middle' is not quite right. Close to the middle though. But had it been the other way around, I'd have said it was decisive.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

There were people on this site yesterday asking how the winner was decided...

Hahahaha!!! But it's true. I remember an old Peter cook film called the Rise and rise of Michael Rimmer. He basically becomes dictator for life because he holds so many referendums (? plural) that the thick electorate become confused and ask him to decide.