Will we have new manager or not?

[Saints_Alive]

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[Libby]

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[Saints_Alive]

For me he’s not had a good crack of the whip so to speak because he’s been operating on a shoestring budget. I don’t think anyone could have done more with the squad we have. He’s taken us from heavy relegation candidate to somewhere between the relegation battle and mid table. And that’s about as good as it gets for us right now. Even if I was taking the previous seasons into account I’d be thinking, yeah Ralph has shown enough since being here that he deserves a decent period of this season before we start panicking. I’d also be thinking who is available, that we could afford and would come to Southampton that can do better with what we have.

Who knows what will happen. If we are getting thrashed week in week out, have 0 points after 15 games, and he’s lost the dressing room then I’m sure we’d see changes afoot sooner rather than later. But I just don’t see that happening no matter how poor our second half of last season was. And I’d rather not be getting that bogged down in thinking about the worst before it starts happening. New season, fresh start for me.

Yep, same for me too.

 

[Libby]

For me he’s not had a good crack of the whip so to speak because he’s been operating on a shoestring budget. I don’t think anyone could have done more with the squad we have. He’s taken us from heavy relegation candidate to somewhere between the relegation battle and mid table. And that’s about as good as it gets for us right now. Even if I was taking the previous seasons into account I’d be thinking, yeah Ralph has shown enough since being here that he deserves a decent period of this season before we start panicking. I’d also be thinking who is available, that we could afford and would come to Southampton that can do better with what we have.

Who knows what will happen. If we are getting thrashed week in week out, have 0 points after 15 games, and he’s lost the dressing room then I’m sure we’d see changes afoot sooner rather than later. But I just don’t see that happening no matter how poor our second half of last season was. And I’d rather not be getting that bogged down in thinking about the worst before it starts happening. New season, fresh start for me.

I largely agree with this, and think it's impossible to say before we see how the Summer goes with both ins and outs.

Ref the fair crack of the whip though, the lack of money is forever (seemingly at least) going to be an issue at this club. So if he's unable to get beyond the level we're at without it then he likely never will (Stating the obvious there perhaps lol?)

I think he's a brilliant coach but worry about his in game decisions and reactions. Look at the two nine-nils: for Leicester he didn't make any changes for quite a while after their opener/Bertrand's red card and we were then already 4 down. At Old Trafford he put Danny wide who got roasted again and again without him seeming to do anything about it.

It really is the collapses that are the big concern imo. I think if we were in bottom 3 after 10-12 games but had been involved in a lot of tight games where our lack of quality showed then most would be pretty laid back with it. Whereas if we'd thrown away multiple leads and had various instances of conceding 3/4 goals in a short space of time then far more would be concerned.


Me personally, I'm happy with him full stop. But I understand that it's easy for me to be like that cos I don't give a **** about league position and would happily see us relegated. Taking the cups seriously and trying to play good/attacking football are the only boxes that need ticking for me and he does so on both.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Completely agree that if we're rooted down there at end November/December, we'll probably switch managers. Whether it'll make a sausage of difference is another question (because if we are down there, I suspect it'll be because we haven't recruited well/at all over the summer).

Regarding the other points - it's also really tedious when people say "you're not allowed a different opinion" - of course you are. Just as people are allowed to react and disagree to that opinion. If lots of people disagree with the opinion, you're not being "hounded out" - just that lots of people disagree with the opinion.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I largely agree with this, and think it's impossible to say before we see how the Summer goes with both ins and outs.

Ref the fair crack of the whip though, the lack of money is forever (seemingly at least) going to be an issue at this club. So if he's unable to get beyond the level we're at without it then he likely never will (Stating the obvious there perhaps lol?)

I think he's a brilliant coach but worry about his in game decisions and reactions. Look at the two nine-nils: for Leicester he didn't make any changes for quite a while after their opener/Bertrand's red card and we were then already 4 down. At Old Trafford he put Danny wide who got roasted again and again without him seeming to do anything about it.

It really is the collapses that are the big concern imo. I think if we were in bottom 3 after 10-12 games but had been involved in a lot of tight games where our lack of quality showed then most would be pretty laid back with it. Whereas if we'd thrown away multiple leads and had various instances of conceding 3/4 goals in a short space of time then far more would be concerned.


Me personally, I'm happy with him full stop. But I understand that it's easy for me to be like that cos I don't give a **** about league position and would happily see us relegated. Taking the cups seriously and trying to play good/attacking football are the only boxes that need ticking for me and he does so on both.

Totally agree about his in-game performance. It's definitely his weak spot (and I think he's very stubborn). Like you I think he's a very good coach though, and it's why if we made a random change, I don't think it would work out for us at all.

 

[Libby]

Completely agree that if we're rooted down there at end November/December, we'll probably switch managers. Whether it'll make a sausage of difference is another question (because if we are down there, I suspect it'll be because we haven't recruited well/at all over the summer).

Regarding the other points - it's also really tedious when people say "you're not allowed a different opinion" - of course you are. Just as people are allowed to react and disagree to that opinion. If lots of people disagree with the opinion, you're not being "hounded out" - just that lots of people disagree with the opinion.

Agree completely on your first bit. We've had this discussion before but the problems at the club run far deeper than who's sat in the dugout and which 11 players cross the white line.

Disagree with your second though. Of course you're right that there's lots of instances where it's simply lots of different people disagreeing with a person but there's defo times it goes beyond that imo. Some of the stuff directed towards Lincoln this year was awful and was clearly about him as a poster rather than any point he'd made.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Agree completely on your first bit. We've had this discussion before but the problems at the club run far deeper than who's sat in the dugout and which 11 players cross the white line.

Disagree with your second though. Of course you're right that there's lots of instances where it's simply lots of different people disagreeing with a person but there's defo times it goes beyond that imo. Some of the stuff directed towards Lincoln this year was awful and was clearly about him as a poster rather than any point he'd made.

It can be a bit like that, yes, and I've chatted to Lincoln off board about it. He enjoys a good spat, but when it gets personal it's not on.

Thing is, there is a tendency also for people with a differing opinion to throw out the 'I'm being picked on' just because a load of people disagree with them. You can have whatever opinions you like, but equally people are allowed to disagree with them.

I mean, I think Koeman is ****. Lots of people don't. But if people want to tell me I'm mad thinking that, it's fine. Let's discuss. I'm not going to think I'm being 'hounded out' just because most people here think he's the Messiah.

 

[Libby]

It can be a bit like that, yes, and I've chatted to Lincoln off board about it. He enjoys a good spat, but when it gets personal it's not on.

Thing is, there is a tendency also for people with a differing opinion to throw out the 'I'm being picked on' just because a load of people disagree with them. You can have whatever opinions you like, but equally people are allowed to disagree with them.

I mean, I think Koeman is ****. Lots of people don't. But if people want to tell me I'm mad thinking that, it's fine. Let's discuss. I'm not going to think I'm being 'hounded out' just because most people here think he's the Messiah.

Yeah I wouldn't use the term hounded out personally. But I can understand why some posters feel like they're constantly sniped it when it comes to the negativity thing.

There's definitely an air of superiority around the way that's mentioned by some people too, and I've said this before, but I really dislike it when assertions are made on people's personal lives because of it too.

At the end of the day it's none of people's business whether someone is positive or negative in their outlook towards Saints, and that person isn't here to entertain you or keep you happy, they're here to talk Saints just like you are. If their outlook bothers you that much then just don't engage them.

Anyway, we've done this like a gazillion times before lol so I'll leave it there. I do genuinely feel it's a symptom of the politics thread though where people have banded together over something, labelled anyone else stupid, and then taken it elsewhere. You can't close pandoras box though unfortunately.

P.s. the you/yours above are royal rather than directed specifically at you mate.

 

[VocalMinority]

Personally I still think he will perform better next season with a less congested fixture list. IMO the downturn clearly coincided with injuries and fatigue of the squad, combined with Ralph's high energy style. Liverpool have a similar style (with much better players and depth) and they had similar problems over the winter.

As long as Ralph hasn't lost the dressing room and we get good replacements in, I think we will see an improvement next season.

I'm not saying he shouldn't take blame for not being able to adapt, but I don't think its enough to axe him.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Yeah I wouldn't use the term hounded out personally. But I can understand why some posters feel like they're constantly sniped it when it comes to the negativity thing.

There's definitely an air of superiority around the way that's mentioned by some people too, and I've said this before, but I really dislike it when assertions are made on people's personal lives because of it too.

At the end of the day it's none of people's business whether someone is positive or negative in their outlook towards Saints, and that person isn't here to entertain you or keep you happy, they're here to talk Saints just like you are. If their outlook bothers you that much then just don't engage them.

Anyway, we've done this like a gazillion times before lol so I'll leave it there. I do genuinely feel it's a symptom of the politics thread though where people have banded together over something, labelled anyone else stupid, and then taken it elsewhere. You can't close pandoras box though unfortunately.

P.s. the you/yours above are royal rather than directed specifically at you mate.

That's absolutely why I swerve the politics thread!

 

[Saints_Alive]

I put a lot of the second half season down to not having specialist full backs as back up and Danny getting niggly injuries at least 3 times.
The back four was not settled in most of this period and I think it affected the team massively.
We are not a bad team at full strength and fitness but we still switch off in defence too often and a settled back 5 (with GK) would surely help with this.

 

[Saintmagic]

I unfairly get hounded out for being negative.

 

[Saints_Alive]

I unfairly get hounded out for being negative.

I'm sorry mate...

 

[Pelletron]

My view is:
1. Ralph is in the top five managers in the PL - am not saying he can perform constant miracles at Saints, but for me he is clearly in that echelon, and perhaps can only ever prove that to some people by being given the opportunity at a club who offer him resources, which Saints certainly don't;
2. There's no one better available to us;
3. The next manager we get is more likely to take us down than Ralph is;
4. Losing 9-0 only drops us 3 points - we weren't the only team to lose 3 points that weekend - and we are yet to lose 9-0 to anyone who we have played on an even footing. Ralph can't do anything about the scenarios we were in early on in both games, and the recovery he has overseen following those defeats were where I personally looked to see what he is made of (and liked what I saw).

 

[Saintharry13]

Sadly, the more I hear rumours of other teams preparing and their mangers talking them up, the more I fear we will never see the best of RH at SMS.

Do I want him to stay…. Hell yes…. Will he stay if only given money equivalent to a paper round compared to others clubs who are prepared to speculate financially…. Hell… probably not….

I feel it’s less down to his ability to manage and more down to whether the guy can work miracles.

Year on year we aim to be a little better than the previous year, but that never takes into account how much all the other clubs improve and we struggle to keep our head above water. One day soon, almost this season our luck will run out.

I can’t see us sacking him, more RH falling in his sword and walking away…. But then we’ll be back to square one as I genuinely can’t see any/many candidates to take over and do a better job with our lack of financial backing.

 

[Billy Bates]

Completely agree that if we're rooted down there at end November/December, we'll probably switch managers. Whether it'll make a sausage of difference is another question (because if we are down there, I suspect it'll be because we haven't recruited well/at all over the summer).

Regarding the other points - it's also really tedious when people say "you're not allowed a different opinion" - of course you are. Just as people are allowed to react and disagree to that opinion. If lots of people disagree with the opinion, you're not being "hounded out" - just that lots of people disagree with the opinion.

I think the whole point of different opinions is totally valid, maybe it’s more how some (not all, but some) react when people have a different opinion that is the issue.

For me personally, the **** I got from some incl Kaito for questioning Ralph I found unfair and unreasonable, considering I was saying I was pro Ralph (and still am). I even PMd him to apologise if I upset him, and just got placed on ignore. That got to me as before then I’d got on ok with the poster ok I thought, and i guess after a long lock down it had affected me, being accused of things I didn’t think were true.

Ive also spoke to a few people on here outside of threads over how they’ve been treated and at times it does get a bit much for people.

This was after I’m the **** I got on the politics thread, with my main gripe about the vehement attacks and unfounded accusations that go on in there, both to politicians and posters. Fair enough I should have stayed away, but that place should be far more tightly moderated and isn’t due to political alliance.

In fact I actually rue the day I ever started reading that thread, maybe that is where things changed for me, and as said above, it does change how people think on other threads.

And lastly being subject to a post suggesting the forum is a better place when I’m not here was the final straw for me, that one got to me the most, and did actually leave me feeling isolated and lonely, as I’d always considered this place as somewhere that had been with me for so many years.

Maybe it the different views are clouded at times on all sides by people playing the poster and not the post.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

The question for me is can we thrive or even survive in the Prem and follow the principles we have set for ourselves?

We have a manager with a philosophy of how we play, but without a budget to buy off the peg players who fit that

We have a policy of buying young players who we feel can match this way of playing but who need time to adapt

We have a policy of developing youth players who we feel can match this way of playing but who need time to adapt

We have a limited budget

Our Youth Development and Scouting weds to work really well to give Ralph a chance

Alternatively we change to a pragmatic manager who fits our style more to our team and buy in a mix of players who can battle out a decent league position at times and avoid relegation

 

[Kaito]

Just to set the record straight Billy, you did not send me a PM to apologise and the Mods/Owner can check my account to verify that. The only PM I have ever had from you was in back in 2020.

If someone disagrees with you, that doesn't mean you are 'taking crap' from them. They just don't agree with what you say. It's no big deal and I have read hundreds of posts that I don't agree with and I'm sure many have read some things I have posted and thought 'tosser'.

Just so you know, I think Lincoln and Magic take far too much flack, and to be honest, they are often right in what they say. I don't always agree with them but I do respect them for having the balls to tell it how it is when there is likely to be a hostile reaction. The fact that they can both be very positive is overlooked because of the perception they are both just critical, which is just not true.

I was completely convinced about Ralph but I think the past couple of years has shown that he is capable of making some serious mistakes and is not as tactically astute as we all thought he was when he arrived. I think his game plan works brilliantly when everyone is super fit and we can out last other teams on the pitch but when we are running low on energy or hampered by injuries then we are in trouble. I do feel Ralph's bubbly personality and his excellent communication skills have tended to mask over his lack of flexibility at times. We will just have to see what next season brings.

Anyway, a fresh start and a kiss and make-up is fine with me Billy.

Edit: Billy clearly did send me a PM but as I had put him on ignore I never received it. Thanks for sending it over Billy and my apology for saying you didn't send it.

 

[Billy Bates]

Just to set the record straight Billy, you did not send me a PM to apologise and the Mods/Owner can check my account to verify that. The only PM I have ever had from you was in back in 2020.

If someone disagrees with you, that doesn't mean you are 'taking crap' for them. They just don't agree with what you say. It's no big deal and I have read hundreds of posts that I don't agree with and I'm sure many have read some things I have posted and thought 'tosser'.

Just so you know, I think Lincoln and Magic take far too much flack, and to be honest, they are often right in what they say. I don't always agree with them but I do respect them for having the balls to tell it how it is when there is likely to be a hostile reaction. The fact that they can both be very positive is overlooked because of the perception they are both just critical, which is just not true.

I was completely convinced about Ralph but I think the past couple of years has shown that he is capable of making some serious mistakes and is not as tactically astute as we all thought he was when he arrived. I think his game plan works brilliantly when everyone is super fit and we can out last other teams on the pitch but when we are running low on energy or hampered by injuries then we are in trouble. I do feel Ralph's bubbly personality and his excellent communication skills have tended to mask over his lack of flexibility at times. We will just have to see what next season brings.

Anyway, a fresh start and a kiss and make-up is fine with me Billy.

Well, I did reach out to you, and still have the message - will screen shot it to you in a PM (never been keen on airing laundry in public).

Anyhow, I agree at times things can get too much, and this was the time SaintinNZ posted about placing me on ignore, which I believe you did, hence why you may not have got the message. That isnt the actions of someone who wanted to debate and chat about things.

And the irony about it was loads of people had similar concerns about Ralph shortly after, and that was fine, as they were 'more acceptable posters' - hence my comment earlier this am about playing the post and not the poster, which you also alluded to above.

Anyhow, life is too short to keep grudges - have a great day and thanks for messaging.