Why aren't we using the youngsters?

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S

Saintletico

Member
Jul 25, 2011
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Despite injuries to Cork and Morgan in the last two games, Harrison Reed doesn't get a game and we a play a CB in midfield. I can see the logic - throwing a youngster into big games against big sides is a risky move.

But - is it any riskier than playing players out of position? We have 4 or 5 youngsters in our squad with exciting potential, but they don't seem to be trusted to play premier league football yet. That's fine, but if you take those players out of the squad we start to look ridiculously light on numbers.

I think Koeman needs to decide if he intends these players to be premier league squad members this season, or just have the odd minute here or there. If it's the latter, we need a very busy January transfer window.
 
I actually agree with you on this. This is the first season in the prem where we have not really attempted to bring anyone through. At the start of the season, Reed's long term contract was presented as a bit of a coup - but Koeman doesn't even bring him on when he has a spare sub to make with five minutes left. I love Koeman, but this one issue nags at me. Give the lad a chance to prove himself!

Personally, my complaint is more about earlier in the season - in games which were already won - rather than these big games where it might put too much pressure on him.
 
U21's team vs Man Utd : Gazzaniga, Flannigan, McCarthy (c), Mugabi, Targett, Reed, Hesketh, Seager, Rowe, Isgrove, McQueen. plus Isted (GK), Cook, Willard, Sims, Gape.

How many of these are ready to step up?
 
My point isn't about pushing all of those Under 21s players to step up before they are ready (although Seager and Sims look very exciting). It's about the ones who are in the senior squad already - Targett, Reed, McQueen, Isgrove and Gallagher (remember him?!) If they are not ready, don't push them to be, but then we need other players in the squad who are able to cover for our first teamers.

Would love to see Reed given a start against United (if he's ready).
 
Think this was one of MoPo's (haven't heard that in a while) greatest strengths. Whenever he had an excuse to, he would get a youngster on for some experience.

I can understand not doing it against City with Yaya and Fernando dominating the midfield. Reed would've been completely overrun. But Arsenal with their 'softer' midfield and heavier focus on playmaking would've been a great opportunity to bring him in.
 
Probably not good enough. Can hardly blame Koeman for playing Toby at dm (he's good there) and bringing on Yoshida at cb (good player). Gallagher didn't exactly set the league alight last season, and Reed looked ok for the whole 5 min he was entrusted with.
 
Gallagher has had a serious injury (still injured), as has McQueen & Isgrove (just getting back). JWP obviously has been out a while.

Remember Isgrove was thrown on at Anfield being 2-1 down?

Reed is the one who baffles me though.
 
Targett is certainly good enough, but Bertrand is on fire at the moment so Matt will get his chance again against Sheffield United. Gallagher is still injured I believe, or he would be playing for the U21's. I suppose JWP still counts as a youngster so he will no doubt feature as soon as he's fit, and with our current midfield crisis surely Harry Reed will at least get a runout against Man U. If either Tadić or Mané need a rest, which is looking likely, perhaps Isgrove will get a chance, say against Burnley or Palace.

I agree with the OP that it is surprising that someone with Ron's record of bringing youngsters through hasn't utilised the riches we have among the U21's, but it is surely something that is in his plans.
 
It's our fault. Expectations have rocketed and now everyone is talking Champions League. Under Nigel we were talking survival and under MP we were talking progression and record 8th place finish. I bet if we were 10th before Arsenal game, Reed would have gone on.

From what I've seen, Reed is worth a punt.
 
fatletiss said:
It's our fault. Expectations have rocketed and now everyone is talking Champions League. Under Nigel we were talking survival and under MP we were talking progression and record 8th place finish. I bet if we were 10th before Arsenal game, Reed would have gone on.

From what I've seen, Reed is worth a punt.
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That's just it though Fats - from what we've seen. You can't help but think that Ronald has seen a lot more, and doesn't.

Then again, on Monday there may not be that choice. If he puts Gardos in DM, then we have our answer!
 
We have had to discard players because of our rapid rise...it's the same with the youngsters. They would have had more chances in the lower leagues and if our ambitions were lower. Koeman and Les Reed can positively smell the Champions' League...they will want proven players in. Any youngster given a chance now will have to be top quality. We wouldn't be saying this if we still had Lallana, Shaw and Chambers (Academy graduates) and JWP and Gallagher were fit....without them we look as is if we are no longer interested in the youngsters. It's not true...we've just had a clear out for the moment.
 
Given our midfield injury crisis, I can't see why we wouldn't put reed on against Man U. If we lose, everyone will just say "Well it was Man U, what did you expect?"; if we win, we may have unearthed another diamond in the rough...
 
Gallagher - injured
JWP - key player before injury
McQueen - just back from injury and came off in his last U21 with cramp
Isgrove - played at Anfield, coming back from injury
Targett - played in cup games but behind Bertrand who is in excellent form

Reed ... well, I don't understand the Reed case. I'd have loved to see him given a go but I trust Koeman to know best.
 
I imagine because Alderweireld has been fantastic both times he's been moved into midfield.

I doubt very many of us genuinely know how good these youngsters are, we've barely seen anything of any of them. Beefy is the guy to ask here since he watches a lot of our u21s/u18s.
 
SamKimish said:
Gallagher - injured
JWP - key player before injury
McQueen - just back from injury and came off in his last U21 with cramp
Isgrove - played at Anfield, coming back from injury
Targett - played in cup games but behind Bertrand who is in excellent form

Reed ... well, I don't understand the Reed case. I'd have loved to see him given a go but I trust Koeman to know best.
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RonKo confirmed what I surmised in message#207 in the Arsenal thread.
 
I don't know enough about Reed to be sure of this - but maybe:

Reed would come on if Davis was injured - i.e. Reed is the more attacking option for the centre 3, but not so good in the more defensive positions where Toby is a better bet?
 
Toby has shown he is just as comfortable in midfield, the only problem is that we all know the Fonte Yoshi combi results in goals for the other side, maybe Ron knows this as well now
 
SamKimish said:
Gallagher - injured
JWP - key player before injury
McQueen - just back from injury and came off in his last U21 with cramp
Isgrove - played at Anfield, coming back from injury
Targett - played in cup games but behind Bertrand who is in excellent form

Reed ... well, I don't understand the Reed case. I'd have loved to see him given a go but I trust Koeman to know best.
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McQueen and Isgrove are meh. I can see Saints giving players like Sims, McCarthy, Hesketh etc another season in the youth.
 
Alderweireld isn't dynamic enough to play in midfield. He's a centre back. He's too limited. Man City decided to give him all of the time in the world on the ball when he moved into midfield, they knew he wasn't going to hurt them. We didn't get up to much in attack second half against Arsenal either. Wanyama isn't the most creative as it is. Wanyama works at DM, but I don't like him as a CM. Having two limited players in the midfield three that aren't quick off the mark is taking it too far for me, especially with Yoshida at centre back.

If Reed isn't ready then fair enough. But why play a centre back in midfield when we looked out of ideas against City playing him there? Davis and Wanyama are good enough players for a 4-2-3-1 with Mane, Tadic, Long and Pelle infront. Mane should have come on for Cork with Tadic moving central (If Reed isn't ready). Koeman has got it badly wrong in the last two games with his changes and tactics.
 
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