Transfer Rumours To sack or not to sack?

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Should we sack Ange now?

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
PowerSpurs said:
Everyone is asking the wrong question....the right question isn't anything to do with comparing Ange to previous managers or winning trophies. The right question is....is Ange one of the one in 50 coaches who makes a real difference to their club. If he is we should have kept him, if not we should try out someone else with a one in 50 chance of success. The correct answer is that no-one knows so the sacking decision is about equally likely to be right or wrong.
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No offence PS, but that's bollox...<laugh>

Putting Ange aside for now, applying that question to both Mourinho and Conte, as two of the most successful coaches in World football would surely have brought the answer: Keep! Yet both were sacked - and to general consent and agreement both inside the club and with the fanbase.

Ange, conversely, is arguably outside the Top 50 and yet brought the club a trophy, so how does that work?
 
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Left on the Shelf said:
No offence PS, but that's bollox...<laugh>

Putting Ange aside for now, applying that question to both Mourinho and Conte, as two of the most successful coaches in World football would surely have brought the answer: Keep! Yet both were sacked - and to general consent and agreement both inside the club and with the fanbase.

Ange, conversely, is arguably outside the Top 50 and yet brought the club a trophy, so how does that work?
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My point again starts from the observation that the sixth richest club in any league rarely wins a trophy. Conte and Mourinho have won most of their trophies while at one of the top three clubs in their respective leagues. We were definitely one of the top 3 clubs in the Europa League so winning it proves nothing about Ange.
The only way we are going to become serial winners is either for us to become rich enough to have one of the three or four best squads or for us to find a coach who is so good that he (or she?) can get a weaker team to glory. The number of people who have done that in England in my lifetime is very small, less than 10 out of several 100s of coaches, hence my estimate that only one in 50 coaches can do it. History shows that such coaches often have no prior track record of success so it's hardly surprising that we fail to appoint one.
To believe that there is some rational process for appointing managers that we are failing at is what I think is bollocks! Our league finishes and trophy wins under ENIC have been entirely consistent with expectations for a club of our stature.
 
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I have never seen so much written about a manager who has been sacked, deserved or not.
Here in Australia , all the media are throwing up their collective hands in horror, how dare they sack Ange, big mistake etc.
Levy didn't want another Ten Haag scenario, but not having a replacement lined up shows he's protecting himself and not building on the momentum of the cup win. Basically he wants safe not trophies. Someone wrote that there will be more music events booked at the THS than new players come in the transfer window.
Don't often post and generally just read ,but really where do we go from this?
 
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I think we’ll have a new manager by the end of the weekend. That can be the only reason why they took so long to pull the trigger.
 
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There's more than the 'usual chaos' ongoing at the moment. New CEO appointed, board members out,board members reassigned, new board members appointed, coach sacked, Chief Football Offier soon to follow, new DoF due to arrive...it's all change under the PL's best chairman...

Is any of it going to result in the club being run less like a market stall and more like a member of the Top 10 clubs in world football?

As usual...and despite all of the above repeating chaos, it's still all about COYS Daniel and until his cold dead hands are prised off the levers of power, we will continue to employ the wrong people, give them insuffiient resources and then sack them when they fail...while the architect of this recurring chaos faces no scrutiny and awards himself £3m bonuses.
 
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"Thanks for that Brian" said:
There's more than the 'usual chaos' ongoing at the moment. New CEO appointed, board members out,board members reassigned, new board members appointed, coach sacked, Chief Football Offier soon to follow, new DoF due to arrive...it's all change under the PL's best chairman...

Is any of it going to result in the club being run less like a market stall and more like a member of the Top 10 clubs in world football?

As usual...and despite all of the above repeating chaos, it's still all about COYS Daniel and until his cold dead hands are prised off the levers of power, we will continue to employ the wrong people, give them insuffiient resources and then sack them when they fail...while the architect of this recurring chaos faces no scrutiny and awards himself £3m bonuses.
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I suspect that there is even more going on than we are seeing! You're right though, he got his trophy wish now time to fall on the sword....
 
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PowerSpurs said:
My point again starts from the observation that the sixth richest club in any league rarely wins a trophy.
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This is generally true in the modern game, but there tends to be a massive drop-off in revenue.
Taking La Liga from a few years ago as an example, this illustrates it:
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Two clubs absolutely miles ahead of the third and the third miles ahead of everyone else.
Barca and Real literally earning more than ten times Getafe are and seventy times that of some.
 
The dust is settling. It still feels a bit ****. Ange had aura, and the personality to really stand up to the narrative around the club, and to call some of the media out for what they are. Quite aside from Bilbao, I’ll always love him for that. He was what we needed in many ways - an old man of the game who himself was an outsider, a blend of the old and new schools, for better or worse - a figurehead for the club. Big Ange was big enough to dominate and own the story if he needed to.

Taking the emotion out of it though, which we shouldn’t always have to do with football but here we are, the league campaign was awful. There were times when it felt like I’d forgotten what it was like to see us win a game. The numbers don’t bear repeating but speak for themselves. It’s hardly surprising the club have made a change.

I suspect more will be written and analysed over the coming weeks as a successor beds in. Could Ange have managed his resources better, were his training and playing methods making the delicate injury situation worse? Maybe we’ll get a better feel for that. But it’s also hard not to think that the squad was undercooked in terms of strength in depth. Archie Gray, in his debut PL season at 18, played 4-5 different positions out of necessity. Some of the benches we had to put out were almost unrecognisable. We never had the balance across the squad that was needed. Ange’s game model may always have been doomed to fail in the PL, his management of the resources he had available may have left something to be desired, but it’s hard to think that he wasn’t also sold down the river a bit.

The new manager, who I assume will be Thomas Frank, has an enormous task. I suspect we’ll lose some important players this summer and on top of that he’ll be expected to get more out of the group that remains and I doubt we’ll see the kind of recruitment we’d be hoping for, even with CL money about to come in on top of likely making some good money off a few of our better players, and their wages coming off the books. He’ll also have to pick the group up from the inevitable emotional slump that will come from Ange being canned.

If it is Frank, I think he has more about him than people perhaps give him credit for. I’ve watched a few videos of him (there’s a good one on YouTube where they follow him around the Brentford training ground this season for a day). He’s a different personality from Ange, Scandi not Aussie, but I like the way he carries himself, I like how he talks about the game, and I think he’s a very good tactician. It’ll be a challenge as he steps up a level and has to do some real management in the truest sense of the word.

He’s going to have to show he has the fire to get the group going again and have them competing at the sharp end, and he’s going to have to show that (unlike Graham Potter) he can find the right blend of pragmatism and adaptability and dominance when you move to a club that is expected to dominate games more often.

It’s a big task. But it was for Ange, and it was for Pochettino. At least the trophy monkey is off the club’s back for the new man, whoever it is. At least we had Bilbao.
 
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remembercolinlee said:
Genuinely don't get how we sacked a manager who won a european trophy 16 days earlier.
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Because he picked up 78 points from our last 66 league games and we looked clueless.
The last time that we beat a non-relegated team in the Premier League was Man Utd in February.
We've not been improving, we've been getting worse.
 
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Lots of players coming out in support of Ange and I don’t think we can really doubt that they wanted to play for him.

But is there a felling of ‘well if you’d have actually played better and not made so many individual errors, maybe we’d have got some more points, finished mid table then with the cup win there wouldn’t even be a question of sacking Ange?’
 
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SarrMan said:
Lots of players coming out in support of Ange and I don’t think we can really doubt that they wanted to play for him.

But is there a felling of ‘well if you’d have actually played better and not made so many individual errors, maybe we’d have got some more points, finished mid table then with the cup win there wouldn’t even be a question of sacking Ange?’
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I don't think that there's any doubt that a lot of the players like Postecoglou and it's easy to see why.
He's a charismatic bloke and we won a trophy with him as our manager.
He also seems to address character flaws with players and gets them to reflect on them.

I'm sure there's quite a few in the squad reflecting on their own contributions to his sacking.
There'll also be some that can take a step back and look at how poorly organised we were.
Most of them are internationals and will be able to contrast their experiences there.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Because he picked up 78 points from our last 66 league games and we looked clueless.
The last time that we beat a non-relegated team in the Premier League was Man Utd in February.
We've not been improving, we've been getting worse.
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Yeah the wording of the statement shows they didn’t believe he was the correct man to take the team into next season and tbh there wasn’t anything shown to say they’re wrong.

Interestingly the statement said the club and the board, usually Daniel Levy is mentioned by name.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
This is generally true in the modern game, but there tends to be a massive drop-off in revenue.
Taking La Liga from a few years ago as an example, this illustrates it: ...
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Serie A :

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which looks like a logarithmic relation (in contrast to La Liga - which is very Pareto) .
 
SarrMan said:
Weird how a media (and numerous spurs pages) who have done nothing but hound him out for the majority of this season and take great delight in telling us how many league games we’ve lost, are now criticising the club for sacking him?

Speaking personally, as someone that has always leaned on levy’s side when it comes to some of the criticism that I think is unfair, if this decision turns out to be a bad one, any fans that weren’t in the ‘ENIC out’ camp could be moving there fairly quickly!
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to be fair, the were all giving him pelters before he won the europy league and got you CL football and had a more successful season than everyone bar liverpool in the league (in terms of outcomes).

no one has been critical of him toin the media since his achievement . The only people who thought he had to go are some supporters for the turgid week in week out football that you had endur for the whole season but most have thought he needed a chance for a third season
 
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