The idea that you wouldn't have had pubs full of Chelsea fans taking the piss out of us pre-ENIC is such a dense take that the bloke who suggested it should not be allowed to operate heavy machinery FFS, Arsenal fans were chanting "Are you watching Tottenham?" when they won the Cup Winner's Cup in 1994
The fans were excellent v West Ham and Leeds and Southampton, were decent against Wolves and v Marseille...those are the only games I been able to get to this season
1. Some serious boasting there from rcl 2. So you're saying (TM) that Billy + Spurlock were at all the other home games ??
To answer the question "what is the way forward for THFC ??" you first need to ask whose opinion counts and what do they want. For me it is the fans opinions but what they want is a much harder question. Some will want trophies, perhaps at almost any price, others want "good football" however that is determined and there are many other options or combinations. Spurs are a club with a long history of exciting attacking football and the idea of winning the title by playing for 1-0 every week would be anathema (remember the man in the raincoat?). At present though it seems that it is ENIC who determine what the club wants - and that does not seem to be trophies. I would hazard a guess that becoming rich by developing the stadium, the fan base and qualifying for the CL every year suits their ambitions. For them - a trophy? - yes please if we could have it but no thanks if we have to compete for the most expensive players. For me - I would dearly love to win the league - even though the Premiership is not the type of league I like - being money-dominated as it is. But that is just a function of my age. Starting to support Spurs in the late 50s and being spoilt by our 1960's is my curse. Like England winning the World Cup in 1966 - I never thought that would be the last time I would see it. I just do not understand how teams can come from nowhere and win the league - like Leicester - or how a team we were roughly on a par with a few years ago like LIverpool after their lean years but went on to major successes and now the horrible NL Reds are having a season nobody predicted and I will not bet against them winning the league this year. How does that happen while we seemingly drift?
This article assumes everyones' opinion "counts" . We take those opinions in "good faith" , assess the pros and cons (and consequences therein) , and determine whether they are practically actionable. That aside, the first thing we are looking for is CONSENSUS on each dimension considered. Of all the dimensions I proposed, it currently appears that there may be consensus forming on the expectations for a Spurs manager. Specifically : 1. that they primarily be "attack-minded" 2. and that there is some statistical evidence to suggest that such a mindset is successful in helping the club achieving primary targets (finishing PL top 4 etc) Hopefully similar will emerge here for all the other dimensions (currently and yet to be) stated.
Good post 61, Your last paragraph asks the big question. Could it be that for so long Spurs have been described as a cup team (no smart arse comments here, we've heard them all). Despite changes in ownership we always look to buy the glamour forwards Villa, Klinsman, Ginola, Sherringham, Berbatov, but less attention is paid to defenders because they rarely fit that 'glamour' title. We end up with a team that on it's day can compete with anyone but cannot produce long term consistent performances that are requred to win titles. Dembele being our last defender/midfielder who made the difference to Spurs and nearly produced a title win. Spend on the defence.
I am not sure it is as easy as that. To say everyones' opinion "counts" does not explore the differing bases of opinion. If you could get a consensus amongst fans ( I have some doubt) that is a good start but will this marry up with what the Board are seeking, ENIC or even the Manager/Coaching staff? I think we are a very complicated club - we have a notion of "style" and whether or not we often manage to achieve that it can be at complete odds with results. Are we sure when winning points might be sacrificed for "attack-minded" play? A lot of posts of here mention the "quiet" fans. Perhaps winning trophies or even getting close could excite to a loud murmur even us oldies?
If the opinions of two sides are at odds with each other, then the each side has the obligation to show why they are correct and the other is not. "I think we are a very complicated club - we have a notion of "style" and whether or not we often manage to achieve that it can be at complete odds with results." We have the words of St Nicholson + Danny boy as part of the legacy. Those, together with them actually being backed up by on-pitch performance, IMHO can be difficult to refute. "Are we sure when winning points might be sacrificed for "attack-minded" play?" For the PL season, if I said to you that for 28 games you can be an attacking whirlwind, but for 10 games you will have to grind out non-losses with painful to watch games, but that will guarantee you a top 4 slot, would you and others accept that ?? "A lot of posts of here mention the "quiet" fans. Perhaps winning trophies or even getting close could excite to a loud murmur even us oldies?" As with all things socio-political, you sadly have to assume that the silent are indifferent.
I hate saying "get rid of the manager" but Conte ain't committed to staying and we are going backwards. We have players that would not be in the squad of (let alone the first team) of a top four club such as Royal, Richarlison, Sessegnon, Perisic, Lenglet, Sanchez, Forster, Tanganga, Dier, Moura as well as players currently on loan that we can not shift such as Ndombele and Lo Celso. Every could see we need to change things from before the hour mark yet we allowed them to build up serious momentum and then made our first sub after 71 minutes (at least 15 mins too late) and that sub was Moura ... then just before they scored we brought on Royal but Danjuma remained on the bench . When it goes well Conte takes the plaudits...we have been woeful bar a few games...partly cos of the tactics and partly cos we have really poor players. I think time has come to part ways, and bring in a new manager. If it means giving it to Ryan Mason cos we (again) have not forward planned then so be it. We are going to lose kane come the end of the season so need to start planning for life without him now.
I said it a few weeks back, but the if Mason does get the reigns for a few weeks that does offer a potential benefit: it gets the tactics out of the players' heads and legs in time for the new manager to come in so they have a cleaner slate Harry Redknapp said as much when he replaced Ramos that the first thing he needed to do was get Ramos' tactics out of players heads and muscle memory, and the way Mason had us set up after the ubermensch was out the door or Sherwood when he was in charge after Villas-Boas were out the door all point to the same idea It's hardly unique to us, either, for example the various times Guus Hiddink carried the can at Chelsea for a few months here and there, or when Ralf Rangknick was trying to get Solskjaerball out of Man Utd player's systems - and going further back, Arsenal's using Stewart Houston and Pat Rice to transition from Bruce Rioch to Arsene Wenger
Another suggestion: look at World of Hotspur's tweets Then realise that a section of our fanbase is never, ever going to be happy - not least because, when faced with things that should make them happy, they move the goalposts and hold them up as something to be unhappy about
If anything, two of the last three managerial hires *ahem* imply that ENIC are looking for trophies, hence they brought in Winning Managers™ such as Conte and the ubermensch - but the issue is that it feels like they're looking at the honours section of their Wikipedia pages as opposed to matches their teams have played In the case of the ubermensch, I said at the time that bringing him in felt like a quick and clean break after sacking Poch that would placate the players as much as the fans as we'd brought in a manager with a track record of success without any fuss so we were pointing the club forwards. Similar can also be said with Conte, as we realised Nuno wasn't working out and again wanted a quick and clean break where we'd satisfy players and fans alike and point the club forwards again And this is the issue: it feels like we're skipping two or three steps, which was especially clear with the ubermensch, as the thinking seems to be parachute one of these blokes in and get the trophy jinx off our back regardless of how their philosophies fit with some of the players we hav,e which means the planning looks remarkably like this please log in to view this image And that's the biggest issue with trying to get this group of players a trophy - other than "This group of players" is basically just Kane, Son, Dier and Lloris at this point, as the rest of Poch's squad have departed - is it makes ENIC look like they're getting wound up by the r/soccer pondlife knowing the same number of jokes as the average member of the alt-right, or perhaps the fans getting wound up by the r/soccer pondlife knowing the same number of jokes as the average member of the alt-right which is filtering up to ENIC and they believe a trophy will be the magic salve for that as if, if we did win an FA Cup, we wouldn't then hear a Greek chorus of "Mickey Mouse trophy" as the goalposts get moved ...or the third way, the shouty section of our fans who couldn't fill a phone box with one of their protests bitching and moaning on Twitter has filtered up to ENIC, and they're trying to placate the most miserable section of our fanbase even though they habitually move the goalposts so they can complain about something they claimed would have made them happy, but by complete coincidence whenever ENIC or Levy are trending on Twitter it's because of these angry morons who clearly don't have a clue but are shouting it into the void, which is resonating with the void between the ears of the people who mindlessly agree with the crap they post It's similar to how Man Utd fans didn't really have much of an opinion about the nearest neighbours' trophy haul until their nearest neighbours were considerably richer than they were, and when they did have money this banner magically appeared in a corner of Old Trafford please log in to view this image Now, am I suggesting we chuck £1bn+ of money at players to stop people with Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea flairs on r/soccer using the exact same joke as they circlejerk one another? Obviously not, after all we may as well use that money to hire a couple of goons to go to their houses and slap them for the same effect, but what we do need to do is have a plan that is likely to still be in place eighteen months after we implement it, which even at the time we hired both Conte and especially the ubermensch looked like wishful thinking
Do you contend that the reason Conte should go is because : 1. he does not satisfy criteria such as attack-minded manager 2. and such facts are irrefutably showing themselves on-pitch
I personally don't have an issue with style of play as long as it's done right. If Conte wants to go defensive/ counter attacking then so be it, we done that a lot last season and it was enjoyable for large parts, alternatively if he chose to switch it up then great as everyone likes attacking sides but right now it's neither, it's just boring and his tactic is basically "Kane, save me!". I don't think I've ever been as bored as I have this season, I'm so glad I've moved because had I still been local I'd have been going to every game and frankly it's been nice getting some money back from the poor sods taking my tickets.
None of which appears to have anything to do with the "way forward" remit of this article (in particular, what abilities/traits are to be expected/required of a Spurs manager) .
Both but that is only part of the reason...if his way was producing results I'd see the point of the tactics, the line ups, the substitutions etc. Wednesday was a turning point for me
The issue with Conte for me is how rigid he has us set up this season, even compared to this point 10-11 months ago, and how that is obviously working out as a negative As I said, having a rigid formation can work in the right circumstances - but when something isn't working and the formation is rigid, not only does the initial plan not work but when opponents suss it out then it actively hinders the team, hence our passing looks all well and good between the back three and the two CMs before it evaporates once it gets past the halfway line
