Off Topic The politics thread

[polyphemus]

But what if it's bad for the country? What if its economically detrimental?

There are about two hundred countries in The World of which twenty seven are our current EU partners.
We will continue to trade with any of them and the only difference will be the additional bureaucracy and duties with those 27.
Meanwhile we will be in a position to make whatever arrangements suit with the rest.

Since 'Free Trade' will benefit us as a trading Nation, this is likely to be our aim.

At present we sell less to The EU than they sell to us.
In future other countries may well be in a position to take advantage IF we end up with mutually high tariffs with The EU.
Without the shackles of EU Regulations it is very likely that we will be able to boost our trade with the rest of the world.

I fully accept that there will be some areas where there will be problems and some where benefits will appear.
But these WILL be relatively short term.
IF The EU continues to be intransigent, then other Countries will step in and supply us, that's the nature of Trade.
This will damage The EU at the same time. European Business leaders are aware that they need us at least as much as we need them. Are they going to stand by and watch large parts of their business get taken up by, say, Japan, South Korea, China and USA
You can put this another way and ask if Germany, the European Country where we have to worst balance of payments, will be prepared to 'cut of it's nose to spite it's face' by making mutual trade difficult?

Does anyone believe that we, UK PLC, will be unable to survive in the World without being controlled by Brussels?

We will in fact continue to do business with The EU once we leave.
And in one sense there will be a deal in place, The World Trade Organisation Rules will automatically apply.

I'm desperately trying to avoid going into Churchillian, Fight them on the Beaches mode, but as long as pessimists keep claiming that we can not do it, then we wont.
If the optimists, those who are prepared to fight to succeed win out, then we will get to where we want to be in time.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Then we'll deal with it and try turn it around.

We wouldn't have to deal with or turn anything around if we didn't leave.
General consensus appears to be that Brexit will hit the service industries particularly heavily. These are the mainstay of our economy. How is it worth risking that for something that we don't know will work?

 

[The Norton Cat]

There are about two hundred countries in The World of which twenty seven are our current EU partners.
We will continue to trade with any of them and the only difference will be the additional bureaucracy and duties with those 27.
Meanwhile we will be in a position to make whatever arrangements suit with the rest.

Since 'Free Trade' will benefit us as a trading Nation, this is likely to be our aim.

At present we sell less to The EU than they sell to us.
In future other countries may well be in a position to take advantage IF we end up with mutually high tariffs with The EU.
Without the shackles of EU Regulations it is very likely that we will be able to boost our trade with the rest of the world.

I fully accept that there will be some areas where there will be problems and some where benefits will appear.
But these WILL be relatively short term.
IF The EU continues to be intransigent, then other Countries will step in and supply us, that's the nature of Trade.
This will damage The EU at the same time. European Business leaders are aware that they need us at least as much as we need them. Are they going to stand by and watch large parts of their business get taken up by, say, Japan, South Korea, China and USA
You can put this another way and ask if Germany, the European Country where we have to worst balance of payments, will be prepared to 'cut of it's nose to spite it's face' by making mutual trade difficult?

Does anyone believe that we, UK PLC, will be unable to survive in the World without being controlled by Brussels?

We will in fact continue to do business with The EU once we leave.
And in one sense there will be a deal in place, The World Trade Organisation Rules will automatically apply.

I'm desperately trying to avoid going into Churchillian, Fight them on the Beaches mode, but as long as pessimists keep claiming that we can not do it, then we wont.
If the optimists, those who are prepared to fight to succeed win out, then we will get to where we want to be in time.

But many of those countries have economies the size of average sized UK towns- they won't be able to or need to buy stuff from us. As I said in my previous post, we put the biggest element of our economy at risk by leaving. I don't see how anyone can suggest that risking that is worth what we'll 'gain' from leaving the EU.

I don't see that its pessimistic to say that Brexit is a risk and I certainly don't see any reason to be optimistic about leaving. It's a shut your eyes, cross your fingers, hope for the best moment.

 

[Saf]

We wouldn't have to deal with or turn anything around if we didn't leave.
General consensus appears to be that Brexit will hit the service industries particularly heavily. These are the mainstay of our economy. How is it worth risking that for something that we don't know will work?

Because we want to take our chances. We hate the EU. We don't want to be part of a union that tries to make it impossible for its members to leave.

We voted to leave. We can't go back now.

 

[polyphemus]

But many of those countries have economies the size of average sized UK towns- they won't be able to or need to buy stuff from us. As I said in my previous post, we put the biggest element of our economy at risk by leaving. I don't see how anyone can suggest that risking that is worth what we'll 'gain' from leaving the EU.

And many of those countries have economies the size of continents, China, USA, India.
I was simply using those figures to emphasise that there is a big World out there and Europe is only a small part of it.

And we are not going to be cut adrift from Europe. It will still be there and in much the same way as things were pre joining, we will continue to trade.

 

[Expat-Cat]

And many of those countries have economies the size of continents, China, USA, India.
I was simply using those figures to emphasise that there is a big World out there and Europe is only a small part of it.

And we are not going to be cut adrift from Europe. It will still be there and in much the same way as things were pre joining, we will continue to trade.

I appreciate a good discussion, but please stop inventing things and blissfully ignoring reality. Pre-EC we were a part of EFTA, a group of European trading countries. In the intervening years, ALL of those countries are now either in the EU or have complex trade deals tying them to the EU. The situation we had "before" ceased to exist. And just in case you want dig up India and China, our empire collapsed a good while ago, with Hong Kong being the last bit to drift away.

The biggest part (like nearly all of it) of the UK national "profit" is in the invisibles i.e. insurance, currency trading, stock market, etc. In the last 40 years this has done very well, mainly using the UKs expertise and traditional links with the outside world and acting as a gateway (2-way) to the EU. The handle to that particular door is about to fall off.

OK, you voted to leave. Accepted. But if the vote had been "remain" or "leave and create national poverty", what would the vote have been?
So leave, but make sure you have you ducks-in-a-row before you do. Let the Government and Parliament work through this and reach a compromise or process to get what's needed. Of course they could mess it up, but then your no worse off anyway.

 

[The Norton Cat]

And many of those countries have economies the size of continents, China, USA, India.
I was simply using those figures to emphasise that there is a big World out there and Europe is only a small part of it.

And we are not going to be cut adrift from Europe. It will still be there and in much the same way as things were pre joining, we will continue to trade.

But, like I said previously, why risk the biggest sector of our economy? And why go from a situation of relative stability to one which is a complete unknown? And again, what are we going to do if its complete balls up?

 

[Saf]

But, like I said previously, why risk the biggest sector of our economy? And why go from a situation of relative stability to one which is a complete unknown? And again, what are we going to do if its complete balls up?

All ifs and buts, mate.

What if we flourish, the EU crumbles and overnight we become the European superpower?

 

[Makemstine Roger]

We wouldn't have to deal with or turn anything around if we didn't leave.
General consensus appears to be that Brexit will hit the service industries particularly heavily. These are the mainstay of our economy. How is it worth risking that for something that we don't know will work?

I have lived in the Eu for 24 years now and cannot wait for Brexit, it will impact me personally, but i am Brit through and through and my Country comes first. Cameron went to the Eu for a few minor concessions Junker said no , we voted stick the EU up your arse then, if you lived here in Europe and read the papers you would find everyone is fed up to the back teeth with the tin pot EU. we were fine before we joined they decimated our car industry fishing industry and mining, and we still recovered.

 

[rooch 3]

But many of those countries have economies the size of average sized UK towns- they won't be able to or need to buy stuff from us. As I said in my previous post, we put the biggest element of our economy at risk by leaving. I don't see how anyone can suggest that risking that is worth what we'll 'gain' from leaving the EU.

I don't see that its pessimistic to say that Brexit is a risk and I certainly don't see any reason to be optimistic about leaving. It's a shut your eyes, cross your fingers, hope for the best moment.

Can't wait to leave get rid of the bullying bastards I reckon we will do just fine.

 

[Woody]

But, like I said previously, why risk the biggest sector of our economy? And why go from a situation of relative stability to one which is a complete unknown? And again, what are we going to do if its complete balls up?

But the eu is not the biggest sector of our economy. We export c60% of our goods outside the eu, and thats rising. Plus it is forecast ... by the eu indeed ... that 90% of future demand will come from outside the eu. The eu has major problems because it is too bureaucratic and therefore too inflexible to move with the modern business world.

 

[The Norton Cat]

But the eu is not the biggest sector of our economy. We export c60% of our goods outside the eu, and thats rising. Plus it is forecast ... by the eu indeed ... that 90% of future demand will come from outside the eu. The eu has major problems because it is too bureaucratic and therefore too inflexible to move with the modern business world.

We may well export 60% of our goods outside of the EU and no, the EU isn't the biggest sector of our economy. But that's not what I was saying. Service industries are and it's been predicted that they will be hit heavily by leaving the EU. Why take that risk? Seemingly, everyone thinks its worth risking our economy because they don't like the EU. Not a good enough reason in my opinion.

 

[rooch 3]

We may well export 60% of our goods outside of the EU and no, the EU isn't the biggest sector of our economy. But that's not what I was saying. Service industries are and it's been predicted that they will be hit heavily by leaving the EU. Why take that risk? Seemingly, everyone thinks its worth risking our economy because they don't like the EU. Not a good enough reason in my opinion.

Nowt wrong with having that opinion mate mines different to yours that's all.

 

[Woody]

We may well export 60% of our goods outside of the EU and no, the EU isn't the biggest sector of our economy. But that's not what I was saying. Service industries are and it's been predicted that they will be hit heavily by leaving the EU. Why take that risk? Seemingly, everyone thinks its worth risking our economy because they don't like the EU. Not a good enough reason in my opinion.

Our services exports have also grown faster to non EU than to EU. We ran an overall deficit of £72 billion with the EU in 2017, but a surplus of £42 bn with the rest of the world.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Our services exports have also grown faster to non EU than to EU. We ran an overall deficit of £72 billion with the EU in 2017, but a surplus of £42 bn with the rest of the world.

Maybe so, but it's still predicted that service industries will be heavily impacted by Brexit.

 

[Makemstine Roger]

We may well export 60% of our goods outside of the EU and no, the EU isn't the biggest sector of our economy. But that's not what I was saying. Service industries are and it's been predicted that they will be hit heavily by leaving the EU. Why take that risk? Seemingly, everyone thinks its worth risking our economy because they don't like the EU. Not a good enough reason in my opinion.

junker and his cronies hate us, the people of the EU like us, he tries every thing in his power, to give us less than scraps, and a lot of the budget for the MEPs goes on attendance allowance housing allowance a michelin 5 star chef to feed them and wine at 150 quid a bottle, and they always vote themselves a pay rise every year which no one can stop, look at the Kinnocks the whole family on the gravy train for 20 years, you never hear from them, keep their heads down, can anyone tell me in all that time have they ever stood up once for Britain, We will be stronger and better once we leave, Kenya and 2 other African countries have been begging T.May to start producing more land rovers and ship them as there is nothing on the continent to beat them.

 

[The Norton Cat]

junker and his cronies hate us, the people of the EU like us, he tries every thing in his power, to give us less than scraps, and a lot of the budget for the MEPs goes on attendance allowance housing allowance a michelin 5 star chef to feed them and wine at 150 quid a bottle, and they always vote themselves a pay rise every year which no one can stop, look at the Kinnocks the whole family on the gravy train for 20 years, you never hear from them, keep their heads down, can anyone tell me in all that time have they ever stood up once for Britain,We will be stronger and better once we leave, Kenya and 2 other African countries have been begging T.May to start producing more land rovers and ship them as there is nothing on the continent to beat them.

But this is just 'I don't like the EU' again. For all its points, good and bad, up until the referendum we had a fairly stable economy, albeit one recovering from the recession of the early 2000s, and one which was, as far as is possible fairly predictable. Now we're forced into this jumping off a cliff edge situation where no one can know what is going to happen. Why take that risk? There has to be a good economic reason for that. Not just 'I don't like the EU'.

 

[Makemstine Roger]

our shipbuilding industry was the pride of the world, decimated by the EU to help countries that just could not compete with us, We could start up shipbuilding back in the North before we lose all of the experts we had, and we need good ships to trade with the rest of the world, not the crap China and Korea produce.

 

[Makemstine Roger]

But this is just 'I don't like the EU' again. For all its points, good and bad, up until the referendum we had a fairly stable economy, albeit one recovering from the recession of the early 2000s, and one which was, as far as is possible fairly predictable. Now we're forced into this jumping off a cliff edge situation where no one can know what is going to happen. Why take that risk? There has to be a good economic reason for that. Not just 'I don't like the EU'.

Bollocks..... jumping off a cliff edge situation...haven't you got it yet the ****s don't want us to succeed, so they offer us the ****tiest deal they can come up with, playing dead mans bluff, it is them who will be hit hardest we we go

 

[The Norton Cat]

Bollocks..... jumping off a cliff edge situation...haven't you got it yet the ****s don't want us to succeed, so they offer us the ****tiest deal they can come up with, playing dead mans bluff, it is them who will be hit hardest we we go

Seems pretty clear to me that leaving is a risk and we don't know how things will look on the other side.