Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

This bit about a multi-option referendum 'splitting the Leave vote' makes me laugh. The Leave vote already was split in 2016 and remains split now. There is not one single possible Leave outcome, but several. The problem is that every Leave voter thinks that they must get their own preferred option, or else they've been betrayed in some way. Canada, Norway, May's deal and one or two other variations would all constitute leaving the EU and could all therefore legitimately be described as implementing the original referendum result.

If there were to be a further referendum with multiple options (which is how the first one should have been set out), it would be on a transferable vote basis, so there is no question of 'splitting' the Leave vote, or the Remain vote for that matter.

Stroller you are better than this... or are you?
As Col said that shipped has sailed. If we should have another vote (which I doubt we will) It should say leave WTO or Leave May's deal... or even Leave Norway. Thats it.

 

[KPDHoopster]

I didn't say they could, did I? I said that they seem to think that they should.

I was describing how the Leave vote was already split and how talk of a multi-option referendum 'splitting the Leave vote' is nonsense.

Its part of democracy, its perfectly understandable, for such a significant event.

The problem is the Tories didn't plan for potential options/deals.

 

[ELLERS]

Stroller, you do come out with some tosh sometimes.

There are many options of how a EU leaving deal could be structured, how could "every" leave voter expect to have their own deal ?

It is widely accepted May should have put in place two or three options developing potential alternatives, knowing the EU would be pigheaded in trying to screw the UK, as I have said before, if they made it easy, the stampede for the exits would be thunderous.

The assumption should have been there was no way the EU,like Cameron experienced, would offer any reasonable exit deal.

It's just another remainer excuse. They are playing this card quite a lot of late. 'Leavers all had different views'? The fundamental thing was we all wanted to leave (that was it). It really is last ditch desperados.
It's like saying that the Tories shouldn't have won the election because people voted for different policies?

 

[ELLERS]

I'm hearing that the vote could be getting postponed and they are going to send her back to Brussels.... Looks like the ERG have won this round. Hopefully she will be gone soon. Bring on the Mogg!

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

But that is what a democracy is, opinions of all the spectrum, is what makes a country richer.

Fighting in the street, is called anarchy, where mob rule, and threats of violence, have persuasions.

Many countries have experienced them, but to advocate them and think a country should aspire to more of them, is idiocy.

Mob rule, rioting on the streets, burning cars willy nilly, smashing shops up, destroying small businesses, well it should at least remind old smelly socks of his delightful little hole that is France.

 

[DT’s Socks]

But that is what a democracy is, opinions of all the spectrum, is what makes a country richer.

Fighting in the street, is called anarchy, where mob rule, and threats of violence, have persuasions.

Many countries have experienced them, but to advocate them and think a country should aspire to more of them, is idiocy.

Well maybe just a Brexiteer March to show unity for that cause ... nowt going on there just ipads moaning about moaners. Just returned to the UK having spent a few more weeks in France to witness the passion of the protests very refreshing to see that people really still can come together

Can’t say the same this afternoon joining in with the consumers in London

Trying to keep looking at the differences which is quite frankly very baffling

To state that we are on a higher moral level in the UK is wrong imo ... I am part of a giant bubble that only cares about the next short term fad it feels like.

 

[Stroller]

Stroller you are better than this... or are you?
As Col said that shipped has sailed. If we should have another vote (which I doubt we will) It should say leave WTO or Leave May's deal... or even Leave Norway. Thats it.

Well yes, there's a legitimate argument to say that a further referendum should only be on the different forms of Brexit, but I would disagree. I believe that there has been enough of a shift of opinion (and a lot more knowledge gained) to warrant Remain also being on the ballot. I'm far from certain that Remain would win, though. I think there's a strong possibility that we'd wind up with Norway, which Parliament may decide upon anyway. It's also what your mate Farage campaigned for. Let's just settle for that and have done with it all.

 

[DT’s Socks]

I'm hearing that the vote could be getting postponed and they are going to send her back to Brussels.... Looks like the ERG have won this round. Hopefully she will be gone soon. Bring on the Mogg!

Like the old Mogg here and there but he still needs his teeth kicking in. Everything that was great in the UK about 60 years ago rolled up into one very self obsessed greedy twat

 

[Stroller]

.

 

[DT’s Socks]

Well yes, there's a legitimate argument to say that a further referendum should only be on the different forms of Brexit, but I would disagree. I believe that there has been enough of a shift of opinion (and a lot more knowledge gained) to warrant Remain also being on the ballot. I'm far from certain that Remain would win, though. I think there's a strong possibility that we'd wind up with Norway, which Parliament may decide upon anyway. It's also what your mate Farage campaigned for.

Bang on what the Brexiteer doesn’t not even consider is the 48% We are solid still because we knew what we wanted
The Brexiteer offers what for a future?
Just a big ever changing list of things that are wrong in the UK. Where’s your plan for the future ?

 

[ELLERS]

IDS has just said that she needs to go back to Brussels and tell them what we want. He basically said if she loses the vote someone else will need to lead.

Many MP's and commentators are saying that the EU is so desperate to get the money... says it all.

We need to go back and tell them to sort out a proper deal.

 

[ELLERS]

Somethings happening as markets are falling!
quick buy your Euros!

 

[DT’s Socks]

Stroller you are better than this... or are you?
As Col said that shipped has sailed. If we should have another vote (which I doubt we will) It should say leave WTO or Leave May's deal... or even Leave Norway. Thats it.

Idiotic stance that’s a Brexiteers vote
Don’t you consider the 48% ever?
Blinkered

WTO or no deal
Brexit under a final deal
No Brexit

Bollocks to the old vote
Please accept this had a massive element of protest within it

Anyone wishing for a no deal for our country needs to be tarred and feathered imo or at least put a plan out there and take full responsibility for that vote

 

[ELLERS]

Well yes, there's a legitimate argument to say that a further referendum should only be on the different forms of Brexit, but I would disagree. I believe that there has been enough of a shift of opinion (and a lot more knowledge gained) to warrant Remain also being on the ballot. I'm far from certain that Remain would win, though. I think there's a strong possibility that we'd wind up with Norway, which Parliament may decide upon anyway. It's also what your mate Farage campaigned for. Let's just settle for that and have done with it all.

I think a free trade deal with close EU links is the way to go. Stroller I have said a million times that I love Europe and its people. I never had a problem with immigration (as long as it was sensible). I just don't like the EU and the way it runs. When it falls (and i believe it will) I hope it comes back as a close trade bloc.

 

[ELLERS]

FTSE down 3.5%

 

[rangercol]

So, I presume that, all people asking for a second referendum (because they didn't like the first result) would be in favour of a general election every 18 months or so?
For example, if Corbyn wins the next election and after a year a sizeable minority don't like what he's doing and believe they were misled, they should be able to demand another vote?
Plus, many Tory boy kids who weren't old enough to vote would then be 18 and able to make a difference. Many diehard labour voters may have died of old age, disease etc.
That's democracy eh?


Yep......plain daft!!

 

[KPDHoopster]

Well maybe just a Brexiteer March to show unity for that cause ... nowt going on there just ipads moaning about moaners. Just returned to the UK having spent a few more weeks in France to witness the passion of the protests very refreshing to see that people really still can come together

Can’t say the same this afternoon joining in with the consumers in London

Trying to keep looking at the differences which is quite frankly very baffling

To state that we are on a higher moral level in the UK is wrong imo ... I am part of a giant bubble that only cares about the next short term fad it feels like.

Really refreshing to see peoples livelihoods getting smashed by thugs ??

Perhaps, returning to a civilised country, isn't the right option for you ??

 

[Uber_Hoop]

The Norway option is worse than what's on the table now. I honestly don't understand why anyone would be proposing it.

Please elaborate as I’m in favour of this solution and would be interested in understanding where you see the key disadvantages, please.

 

[Deleted.......]

Please elaborate as I’m in favour of this solution and would be interested in understanding where you see the key disadvantages, please.

As I understand it we would still have freedom of movement, have to pay significant amounts of money, be tied by pretty much all the rules and have no say in them. I believe that Norway likes the option because it gives autonomy over fisheries and agriculture.
I'm happy to be corrected on any of this - as I've said before all the different permutations make my brain explode...

 

[rangercol]

No problem Col
I sincerely admire the patriot I do but I believe the problems are too far gone to recapture any sort of England ... we sold out sad but true

If I ever saw just one idea or plan I could believe in for my country then I guarantee I will absorb it

Having a sovereignty dream is great 100% but without serious well thought out business plans or ideas then currently to me it’s totally unrealistic

Not sure I've ever mentioned just England mate. I quite like the union.
You won't be surprised that I completely disagree with you about our capability to be a sovereign independent country. I've never sold out.
If the will was there from the ruling elite I believe it would be attainable.
We did manage before the EU for ****'s sake.