Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Agree my partner is working hard to get the homeless off the streets of Kingston ... 40-50 sleeping outside tonight in that borough and no funds to do anything much about it .

Whatever happens we all have to change
if of course we choose to support the future
I give thanks every day that I can do something different

Are you saying this is due to Brexit? Sorry, but the EU is only worried in big business/corporate world they don't give a toss about homeless or the mass unemployment of youth around Europe (record numbers). Plenty of people in poverty within the EU...Poverty in Germany is at a record high yet people have been saying how great the country is? And guess what there were plenty of homeless before the Brexit vote.
However, I agree that people sleeping on streets in 2017 is not good but we don't know all the circumstances of every individual.

 

[kiwiqpr]

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dear google stan
would this even have been possible
how deep is the med
what would all that water have done to the rest of the worlds seas
would the new land be politically european/african or asian

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Well, I did say Davis was a bit of a muppet the day he got the job. If I remember I said he would probably resign as he normally does.
However, I sort of feel sorry for him. I clearly remember a day when he was over there, they did the talk and he came back happy only for them to then say it was a crap meeting (which the BBC and Sky took great delight in highlighting). I remember how he felt betrayed by them. It seems they keep moving the posts. I cannot believe people won't accept this.

Maybe it was a crap meeting and he’s just an idiot?

 

[QPRNUTS]

Problem is Ellers that the Brextards have to live with the Remoaners and vice versa long after Brexit. For the most part this thread has been relatively civilised, but the occasional outburst of bitterness shows how deep the divisions are. My first sentence shows it - every time you use Remoaner I’m tempted to respond with Brextard. It’s pathetic and not helping. If we don’t snap out of it, at all levels, it will become permanent.

I don’t love my country in the way I think Col does, but that’s because we are wired differently (viva diversity!). But I am still British and in a way proud of it and have no interest in ‘doing us down’. My criticisms since the vote have been about the horrendous implementation by our government, which is not the same as our country, thank goodness. I may be wrong, they might be doing the best possible job in the circumstances, but that’s not the way I’m seeing it. And the people who think those of us who are unhappy with what they are seeing are just moaners who hate their country are just plain wrong. If we hated our country we wouldn’t be so pissed off with what is happening to it - not just Brexit, but the schisms that Brexit has brought to the surface. They were there anyway, and much more fundamental than the old left v right. Who knows where it will end.

But at least my house is now warming up, and it has been a handy reminder of how lucky I am. Five days without central heating and hot water is pretty insignificant, though uncomfortable in this weather, but it took 3 grand to put right. Not available to many who have been cold much longer than me.

Super post again sb.
I think this was always going to be more difficult that most thought as it’s uncharted territory for everybody. The EU effectively claim Britain was arrogant in the manner it came to the negotiating table and has not brought any viable plan as to how it wishes to leave. From what I’ve seen in the media, Britain is negotiating hard to get the best deal for its people.
For us over here this is a monumental decision by Britain. Before the EU, Ireland was completely economically dependent on Britain. You are our big brother after all. The only country in Europe we share a language with. Since Ireland joined the EU in 1973, we have been completely dependent on the EU. Our country is too small and geographically isolated to stand alone in a modern world full of strong trade agreements. Britain’s decision to leave the EU is going to have huge consequences for us. That’s really hitting home over here now. Throw in the complicated NI issue and it becomes a mess.
An interesting point is that despite our relative insignificance, the EU is actually genuinely worried that we may follow suit. Britain has a real opportunity to sell us a vision of a new English speaking Anglo-American trade block. Many here would have jumped at that opportunity as we are fickle. I’ve heard European commentators stating that the EU simply can’t allow little Ireland to leave as a second country leaving the block would be a death blow. It’s for this reason the NI border issue is of such significance. Europe have categorically told Ireland it will back it 100% on the border issue. The fact that we have a veto is massive. It’s the only ace we have. Interesting times ahead.
Either an incredibly brave decision by Britain or one that could have lasting consequences.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

Are you saying this is due to Brexit? Sorry, but the EU is only worried in big business/corporate world they don't give a toss about homeless or the mass unemployment of youth around Europe (record numbers). Plenty of people in poverty within the EU...Poverty in Germany is at a record high yet people have been saying how great the country is? And guess what there were plenty of homeless before the Brexit vote.
However, I agree that people sleeping on streets in 2017 is not good but we don't know all the circumstances of every individual.

No I’m not this is made in the U.K.
Yes I do some individuals and Yes I do know the exact breakdown in relationship to their origin... most are males from Britain
Nationally the facts are the same British males and guess what ? Ex military
Good old Britain

You are also wrong about Germany plus let’s our house straight first

 

[sb_73]

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dear google stan
would this even have been possible
how deep is the med
what would all that water have done to the rest of the worlds seas
would the new land be politically european/african or asian

It would not have been possible because many major rivers flow into the Med, where would that water go? You’d have to install a pump and find a sump to drain the water into, permanently.
The Med is on average 8-12ft deep
The water displaced would have flooded all of the U.K. except the Chilterns where property prices would rocket
The new land would be Maltese and Cypriot

 

[sb_73]

Super post again sb.
I think this was always going to be more difficult that most thought as it’s uncharted territory for everybody. The EU effectively claim Britain was arrogant in the manner it came to the negotiating table and has not brought any viable plan as to how it wishes to leave. From what I’ve seen in the media, Britain is negotiating hard to get the best deal for its people.
For us over here this is a monumental decision by Britain. Before the EU, Ireland was completely economically dependent on Britain. You are our big brother after all. The only country in Europe we share a language with. Since Ireland joined the EU in 1973, we have been completely dependent on the EU. Our country is too small and geographically isolated to stand alone in a modern world full of strong trade agreements. Britain’s decision to leave the EU is going to have huge consequences for us. That’s really hitting home over here now. Throw in the complicated NI issue and it becomes a mess.
An interesting point is that despite our relative insignificance, the EU is actually genuinely worried that we may follow suit. Britain has a real opportunity to sell us a vision of a new English speaking Anglo-American trade block. Many here would have jumped at that opportunity as we are fickle. I’ve heard European commentators stating that the EU simply can’t allow little Ireland to leave as a second country leaving the block would be a death blow. It’s for this reason the NI border issue is of such significance. Europe have categorically told Ireland it will back it 100% on the border issue. The fact that we have a veto is massive. It’s the only ace we have. Interesting times ahead.
Either an incredibly brave decision by Britain or one that could have lasting consequences.

Huge risk now that the whole thing will collapse if you and the EU push us too far. The government has made a massive concession on the money, very difficult politically to do. If the Irish border is now used to delay discussing future arrangements further, when we were told it was all about the money, we could snap. And even worse I would have to agree with Col that EU intransigence would be at fault.

More positively, I think we all want the same thing on the Irish border - no border. It should be a technical discussion, not a political negotiation. Plus, given how interwoven our economies are, the U.K. government must, surely, realise that Ireland is a huge ally (almost as important as BMW!) in future trade discussions and we should be doing our utmost to keep you on side.

I’d advise the Irish people to give it ten years before thinking of following our example in leaving the EU.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The same people who whinge about the Beeb for daring to put forward a different point of view as well as the right wing myths they have swallowed hook line and sinker. At least we know one thing is true. Those pesky empire building Russian Communists influenced the Referendum result by spreading misinformation. I read it in The Times and Telegraph so it must be true. Brexiteers are all pawns and foot soldiers of the great worldwide Russian conspiracy.

I simply want the BBC news to be objective and without a hidden agenda. Comrade.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Super post again sb.
I think this was always going to be more difficult that most thought as it’s uncharted territory for everybody. The EU effectively claim Britain was arrogant in the manner it came to the negotiating table and has not brought any viable plan as to how it wishes to leave. From what I’ve seen in the media, Britain is negotiating hard to get the best deal for its people.
For us over here this is a monumental decision by Britain. Before the EU, Ireland was completely economically dependent on Britain. You are our big brother after all. The only country in Europe we share a language with. Since Ireland joined the EU in 1973, we have been completely dependent on the EU. Our country is too small and geographically isolated to stand alone in a modern world full of strong trade agreements. Britain’s decision to leave the EU is going to have huge consequences for us. That’s really hitting home over here now. Throw in the complicated NI issue and it becomes a mess.
An interesting point is that despite our relative insignificance, the EU is actually genuinely worried that we may follow suit. Britain has a real opportunity to sell us a vision of a new English speaking Anglo-American trade block. Many here would have jumped at that opportunity as we are fickle. I’ve heard European commentators stating that the EU simply can’t allow little Ireland to leave as a second country leaving the block would be a death blow. It’s for this reason the NI border issue is of such significance. Europe have categorically told Ireland it will back it 100% on the border issue. The fact that we have a veto is massive. It’s the only ace we have. Interesting times ahead.
Either an incredibly brave decision by Britain or one that could have lasting consequences.

Great post again, Nuts, giving the Irish perspective which gets lost in the complications of the debate in the UK. One thing that's not clear to me on Ireland's position. If the veto is exercised, given the time constraints before March 2019, it will push the UK towards a no-deal. The UK cannnot hang around on this in hope after next month. If there is no deal and we go onto WTO rules, it's doable, it seems to me but not as desirable for either the UK or the EU as a negotiated agreement. In particular, the effect on Ireland is surely that there would have to be the hard border that everyone wants to avoid. This is because the EU will not want UK goods coming across the border into the Single Market, and the UK will not want uninvited EU immigrants coming into the UK through Irish ports and airports.

So isn't use of the Irish veto counterproductive?

 

[ELLERS]

You are also wrong about Germany

I don't think I am.
"Latest data released by Germany’s Federal Statistical Office Around 16 million Germans were living in poverty — approximately 20 percent of the country’s population".
https://www.thelocal.de/20170303/german-poverty-hits-record-high-despite-low-unemployment

 

[sb_73]

I don't think I am.
"Latest data released by Germany’s Federal Statistical Office Around 16 million Germans were living in poverty — approximately 20 percent of the country’s population".
https://www.thelocal.de/20170303/german-poverty-hits-record-high-despite-low-unemployment

I’d swap their poverty rate for ours though. On the same measure we are at 33%.

 

[ELLERS]

I’d swap their poverty rate for ours though. On the same measure we are at 33%.

That's not the point. I am replying to a message. Why do you what to divert or change direction of the answer?

 

[ELLERS]

I’d swap their poverty rate for ours though. On the same measure we are at 33%.

However 33% is disgusting and needs to be sorted.

 

[sb_73]

That's not the point. I am replying to a message. Why do you what to divert or change direction of the answer?

Apologies, I didn’t read whatever prompted your German stats.

I am trying to be civilised, honest!

While there are people who are genuinely poor in both the U.K. and Germany I find the ‘relative poverty’ statistics a bit confusing. On this my son is definitively poor, yet he doesn’t think he is and he gets by fine as far as I can see. Never get a mortgage of course, and he doesn’t have a family to support.

 

[ELLERS]

Apologies, I didn’t read whatever prompted your German stats.

I am trying to be civilised, honest!

While there are people who are genuinely poor in both the U.K. and Germany I find the ‘relative poverty’ statistics a bit confusing. On this my son is definitively poor, yet he doesn’t think he is and he gets by fine as far as I can see. Never get a mortgage of course, and he doesn’t have a family to support.

It is a shame that your son cannot get a mortgage. Every person should be able to have a home/mortgage. This is where I agree with both you and LJ. I may come across as some far-right Tory but I am actually not. I have given them enough stick in my time. I have written to our Tory council and described them as liers. Politics can be a cruel thing and promises will be broken (all parties).

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

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dear google stan
would this even have been possible
how deep is the med
what would all that water have done to the rest of the worlds seas
would the new land be politically european/african or asian

Have you seen the Rhone/ Rhine Ebro?

 

[sb_73]

It is a shame that your son cannot get a mortgage. Every person should be able to have a home/mortgage. This is where I agree with both you and LJ. I may come across as some far-right Tory but I am actually not. I have given them enough stick in my time. I have written to our Tory council and described them as liers. Politics can be a cruel thing and promises will be broken (all parties).

To be fair he’s way off looking to buy a home, he rents a room in his boss’ house at the moment, which both cheap and ensures he gets up in the morning to get to work.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

Our household currently deducted UK tax ad NI £2413 a month from both being PAYE which we are very thankful for
The pair of us expect this to raise of course with Brexit ... how can it not?
No idea if our French Tax will go up in the future
The comparison is what we get or see others get (visibility) in the UK is miles apart from France

This i hope may explain the level of my rants on this thread

it doesn't help when cherry picked factoids sourced from for example the BBC or SKY are used to prop up the argument of something I certainly accept

These are crazy times and to me out of control

Sticking on your union jack shorts and tell them all to F OFF is a great idea

My boys also no chance of buying a home where they were lucky enough to be born in the UK so bollocks i have stepped in to ensure they have a home ... so that has to be in France so what! . I am very proud of that

 

[durbar2003]

Our household currently deducted UK tax ad NI £2413 a month from both being PAYE which we are very thankful for
The pair of us expect this to raise of course with Brexit ... how can it not?
No idea if our French Tax will go up in the future
The comparison is what we get or see others get (visibility) in the UK is miles apart from France

This i hope may explain the level of my rants on this thread

it doesn't help when cherry picked factoids sourced from for example the BBC or SKY are used to prop up the argument of something I certainly accept

These are crazy times and to me out of control

Sticking on your union jack shorts and tell them all to F OFF is a great idea

My boys also no chance of buying a home where they were lucky enough to be born in the UK so bollocks i have stepped in to ensure they have a home ... so that has to be in France so what! . I am very proud of that

On the what shall we ban thread I posted people who say ****, but sometimes I am tempted myself.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

To be fair he’s way off looking to buy a home, he rents a room in his boss’ house at the moment, which both cheap and ensures he gets up in the morning to get to work.

Sharing your boss's house...? That must be relaxing....