Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

Look it up.

The Americans are certainly up there.

It’s really quite interesting, lots of different top ten lists out there, MI6 usually top 3, number one is either CIA or another country which I would never have guessed in a century. No spoilers here!

I suppose you can set criteria to judge by - and staffing and funding levels must be pretty critical, and history of internal security - double agents and defectors. Plus it’s more difficult to be an effective intelligence agency in an open, democratic society, where you have to at least pretend to play by the rules.

 

[colognehornet]

I'd say May has got this tweet thing about right. She's said it was wrong for Trump to retweet something from a far-right organisation which is designed to bring division. She's ignored Corbynite demands to cancel Trump's visit to the UK, because if it was stopped 1. We'd be the only country in the world apart from North Korea not to extend him a welcome, and 2. He comes as President of the UK, our most important ally, and not as Joe Trump the individual, 3. It's in both countries interests to get closer on trade, so use the relationship to tell Trump when we think he's wrong - don't ban him from the UK as Labour's pompous Lady Nugee seems to be suggesting

Care to read your text again Goldie - ''He comes as President of the UK''. Or was it a freudian slip He most definitely should not be welcomed to the UK. 1. Because Sadiq Khan, and a host of other British Moslim politicians would not be welcomed in the USA. 2. The USA. is only Britain's closest ally when Britain follows them into useless unnecessary wars. 3. Because increased trade with the USA. means opening our doors to gene manipulated crap which Trump wants to dump somewhere.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

No need to ban him from the country (although inciting racial hatred might be a justification to do so), but there should be no state visit - why inflict him on the Queen? If May wants to invite him for a game of golf, fine. We can all line up to chuck eggs at him.

Get your eggs ready by all means (we'll have a whip around to bail you out of Mount Pleasance Police Station!). The Queen has issued an invitation. Forget Donald, it would be a major slur against a key ally to withdraw it. There a bigger issues here than some naive and ill-thought through tweets.

And when he does come over, I'd like him to sit down with Sajid Javed and other Muslim MP's so they can give him the low down here, and tell him about Britain First

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Care to read your text again Goldie - ''He comes as President of the UK''. Or was it a freudian slip He most definitely should not be welcomed to the UK. 1. Because Sadiq Khan, and a host of other British Moslim politicians would not be welcomed in the USA. 2. The USA. is only Britain's closest ally when Britain follows them into useless unnecessary wars. 3. Because increased trade with the USA. means opening our doors to gene manipulated crap which Trump wants to dump somewhere.

Well spotted, Cologne. I only do it to keep you on your toes...

If Sadiq Khan wanted to go to the US, he'd be admitted of course. He might not be greeted with a fanfare by the White House (particularly given his previous spat with the Donald). But there are plenty there who would be pleased to see him and hear first hand what is going on in London.

I can't excuse the Bush/Blair war, but the UK/US relationship is a great deal bigger than that. Trump is a businessman, and if can sell ice to the Eskimos he'll do it. When we enter bilateral negotiations, we need to be sharp about it. People complain about importing chlorine sprayed chickens, yet we are constantly being told that 1 in 3 British chickens are contaminated by salmonella, listeria and all manner of other nasties that can leave the consumer seriously ill if they even wash the chicken and get water on the kitchen counter-top.

I am concerned with animal welfare however, and the US would have to satisfy us of that before we start importing.

 

[durbar2003]

Care to read your text again Goldie - ''He comes as President of the UK''. Or was it a freudian slip He most definitely should not be welcomed to the UK. 1. Because Sadiq Khan, and a host of other British Moslim politicians would not be welcomed in the USA. 2. The USA. is only Britain's closest ally when Britain follows them into useless unnecessary wars. 3. Because increased trade with the USA. means opening our doors to gene manipulated crap which Trump wants to dump somewhere.

Trump doesn't know what gene manipulated crap is.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I see some people's favourite negotiator has come out with more anit-UK bollocks. He reckons the UK is walking away from the battle against IS by leaving the EU. He said that, rather than staying should to shoulder, the UK has chosen to be on their own again. Good grief, what a prat.

Our Intelligence services lead the World in anti-terrorism, especially on-line terror and we are active in Syria. France has some good Special Forces, particularly the one attached to the police, but their Intelligence Service is renowned for being chaotic and terrible at sharing information etc. None of the Intelligence Services in the EU come close to ours.

The UK have made it clear that we will continue to share intelligence with the EU and quite frankly, they'd be ****ed without us!

Everyone knows the UK will not resile in any way from its duties to our neighbours on security matters. But in view of a dangerous world of Islamic terrorism, Schengen and mass immigration by Germany without vetting means that UK citizens like the idea of using The Channel as a natural barrier that gives us control. It's not fail-safe but it's another string to our defensive bow.

I think your description of Michel Barnier as a prat was restrained, Col. I would have used stronger language

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

For me it’s about a bit more than ‘what does it mean for the UK’. Your argument sounds a bit like our approach to ‘human rights’ with the Chinese and Saudis. Let’s get really close and trade a lot, so we can have stern words with them behind closed doors. It doesn’t work with them and it certainly won’t with Trump, his world consists of himself. The only thing holding him back is Congress, which is pretty flaky as well, the judiciary, and senior military officers. I don’t think we, or any other country, has any influence over him, or ever will, except in the way that he believes the last thing he heard, whatever the source.

We certainly want him gone before getting in trade agreements with the US. His objectives are explicit - what’s in it for us, **** everyone else.

As I said in my note to Stroller, when Trump comes over, he should sit down with our Muslim MP's. It'll make a change from the Yes men that usually surround him.

 

[Wherever]

Trump doesn't know what gene manipulated crap is.

He thinks it's the turn ups on his jeans

 

[Stroller]

Get your eggs ready by all means (we'll have a whip around to bail you out of Mount Pleasance Police Station!). The Queen has issued an invitation. Forget Donald, it would be a major slur against a key ally to withdraw it. There a bigger issues here than some naive and ill-thought through tweets.

And when he does come over, I'd like him to sit down with Sajid Javed and other Muslim MP's so they can give him the low down here, and tell him about Britain First

Trump plainly doesn't give a **** what Sajid Javed, Sadiq Khan, or any British Muslim thinks. Nor does he care what Theresa May or the Queen think. He plays to his own ignorant, bigoted, redneck audience in the US and they lap it up. By all means let him come to the UK, but don't dignify him with a state visit. I don't give **** what kind of slur it would be against a key 'ally'. It sickens me to think how, at a time when we should be turning our back on his disgusting administration, we are becoming more beholden to it because we are intent on alienating our closest allies.

 

[kiwiqpr]

havent seen the videos
were they all fake

 

[kiwiqpr]

Countries State Visits Notes

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Afghanistan 1 Monarchy abolished in 1973

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Austria 1

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Bahrain 1

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Brazil 3

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Brunei 1

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Chile 1

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China 3

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Colombia 1

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Denmark 2

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Egypt 1

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Ethiopia 1 Monarchy abolished in 1975

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Finland 2

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France 5

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Germany [5] 4

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Ghana 1

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Greece 1 Monarchy abolished in 1973

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Hungary 1

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India 3
Indonesia 2
Iran 1 Monarchy abolished in 1979
Iraq 1 Monarchy abolished in 1958
Ireland 1
Israel 1
Italy 4
Japan 2
Jordan 2
Kenya 1
Kuwait 2
Liberia 1
Luxembourg 1
Malawi 1
Malaysia 2
Mexico 4
Morocco 1
Nepal 2 Monarchy abolished in 2008
Netherlands 2
Nigeria 3
Norway 3
Oman 1
Pakistan 1
Poland 2
Portugal 4
Qatar 2
Romania 1
Russia 1
Saudi Arabia 4
Senegal 1
Singapore 1
South Africa 3
South Korea 2
Spain 2
Sudan 1
Sweden 2
Tanzania 1
Thailand 1
Turkey 3
United Arab Emirates 2
United States 2
Zaire 1 Now called Democratic Republic of the Congo
Zambia 1
Zimbabwe 1


still not sure why adding the orange president to this list is so upsetting to people

 

[rangercol]

It’s really quite interesting, lots of different top ten lists out there, MI6 usually top 3, number one is either CIA or another country which I would never have guessed in a century. No spoilers here!

I suppose you can set criteria to judge by - and staffing and funding levels must be pretty critical, and history of internal security - double agents and defectors. Plus it’s more difficult to be an effective intelligence agency in an open, democratic society, where you have to at least pretend to play by the rules.

Actually, I was a little remiss with my advice to "look it up", as. although most "lists" would have MI6 and the CIA somewhere near the top, it really is quite difficult to measure as they are all secretive. Without looking it up I know that Pakistan's intelligence service is often cited as one of the best. Problem is, they are also often linked with leaks and double agents. Mossad are one of the most feared and thought of as the most ruthless, although they're all ruthless.

Same goes for Special Forces, although the SAS are generally thought to be the No1 SF in the world and just about all other Special Forces from around the World want to train with and learn from them.
GIGN from France are very highly thought of by our own Special Forces. Unfortunately they are often let down by the French Secret Service.

 

[Stroller]

Everyone knows the UK will not resile in any way from its duties to our neighbours on security matters. But in view of a dangerous world of Islamic terrorism, Schengen and mass immigration by Germany without vetting means that UK citizens like the idea of using The Channel as a natural barrier that gives us control. It's not fail-safe but it's another string to our defensive bow.

I think your description of Michel Barnier as a prat was restrained, Col. I would have used stronger language

When May triggered Article 50, she clearly threatened that continued British co-operation on security was contingent upon a favourable trade deal. She, Davis, and the rest of our government are the 'prats' in this Brexit farce. Barnier is just doing his job.

 

[ELLERS]

I see some people's favourite negotiator has come out with more anit-UK bollocks. He reckons the UK is walking away from the battle against IS by leaving the EU. He said that, rather than staying should to shoulder, the UK has chosen to be on their own again. Good grief, what a prat.

Our Intelligence services lead the World in anti-terrorism, especially on-line terror and we are active in Syria. France has some good Special Forces, particularly the one attached to the police, but their Intelligence Service is renowned for being chaotic and terrible at sharing information etc. None of the Intelligence Services in the EU come close to ours.

The UK have made it clear that we will continue to share intelligence with the EU and quite frankly, they'd be ****ed without us!

The reason no one cares Col is because they are all pro-European and they can do no wrong.
Personally, I think the quote is as disgusting if not more than a retweet from Donald. Sad thing is as soon as dimwit Donald does something the whole anti trump movement are mobilized flooding social media with their outrage.
Yet
When some plank from Brussels mocks us regarding the sacrifice of millions of British soldiers it is brushed under the carpet.
He dares use the term “shoulder to shoulder”. The bloke is a @@@@. Short memory all these Europeans have. Bloody French surrender monkeys and collaborators, (even against their own people FFS). Took the Germans a few weeks to take the country....bloody hell it takes that long to get through now! Bloody Italians! Surrendering at every chance the swapping sides every other day! Bloody Europeans cant even sort out their own terrorism. France is like open duck shoot for terrorists and the bloody authorities are like Inspector Clouseau.
If it wasn't for the UK intelligence there would have been so many more attacks.
This is the bloke that is doing the negotiations and we have people sucking up to him? Very sad

 

[sb_73]

Actually, I was a little remiss with my advice to "look it up", as. although most "lists" would have MI6 and the CIA somewhere near the top, it really is quite difficult to measure as they are all secretive. Without looking it up I know that Pakistan's intelligence service is often cited as one of the best. Problem is, they are also often linked with leaks and double agents. Mossad are one of the most feared and thought of as the most ruthless, although they're all ruthless.

Same goes for Special Forces, although the SAS are generally thought to be the No1 SF in the world and just about all other Special Forces from around the World want to train with and learn from them.
GIGN from France are very highly thought of by our own Special Forces. Unfortunately they are often let down by the French Secret Service.

Having read up about it I suspect the Pakistani Intelligence Service has a reputation based on past achievements in the fifties especially countering the Indians and Soviets, when they truly were remarkable. But I suppose as you say with this stuff we should never really know because it’s secret.

I know that I feel a kind of odd nostalgia for the days of the Cold War and politically motivated terrorism, when intelligence seemed like an incredibly complicated game of chess against other professionals rather than finding random nutters.

 

[ELLERS]

Barnier said
“The UK will no longer be involved in decision-making, nor in planning our defence and security instruments,” he announced.
You sort your defences out like you did last time and the time before. Muppet

 

[rangercol]

Having read up about it I suspect the Pakistani Intelligence Service has a reputation based on past achievements in the fifties especially countering the Indians and Soviets, when they truly were remarkable. But I suppose as you say with this stuff we should never really know because it’s secret.

I know that I feel a kind of odd nostalgia for the days of the Cold War and politically motivated terrorism, when intelligence seemed like an incredibly complicated game of chess against other professionals rather than finding random nutters.

The Pakistani Secret Service has it's tentacles into every part of life in that Country which makes them both feared and influential.

I completely agree about the cold war. Obviously it was deadly serious stuff between the spooks but there was a definite "code of conduct" between us and the Russians. Also, many of the techniques used during the cold war are now standard operating procedures in MI5 and MI6. In this age of computers many of the "physical" procedures like "dead letter drops" are still an important part of the spooks' procedures.

 

[durbar2003]

Are we leaving Nato as well??

 

[rangercol]

Barnier said
“The UK will no longer be involved in decision-making, nor in planning our defence and security instruments,” he announced.
You sort your defences out like you did last time and the time before. Muppet

Every French unit that deals with terrorism and hostage taking have asked to work with and/or be trained by the SAS.

 

[rangercol]

Are we leaving Nato as well??

I bloody hope not. What makes you ask that?