Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
West WindsR said:
No, it isn’t, because no one was obliged to follow any of the coverage before. You could have been on the moon for a year and still voted. All that matters is what was in black and white in front of you.
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1. If pre-vote representations don't matter, why is it that Remainers have consistently complained about the stuff on the side of that bus?

2. The Customs Union and the Single Market are essential parts of the EU. If we vote to leave the EU, we vote to leave both.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
Thanks, Bob. Apparently there's a precedent between Norway and Sweden. There is already a tax, VAT, excise and currency border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland policed by administrative and technical tools.
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In 2016 there were 240,000 vehicle checks on the Sweden-Norway border. Smuggling is rife, mainly into Norway, because, as Norway isn’t a member of the EU, it has different taxes and duties, exactly the kind of ‘freedom’ doubtless the UK would want to exercise. Much of the smuggling is by organised crime gangs from Eastern Europe. This wouldn’t happen in Ireland, because organised crime is the hobby of many paramilitaries. Swedish companies rate Norway as the most difficult country to trade with, above China.

Just one of the many myths being peddled round. There is already plenty of smuggling over the Irish border due to different VAT rates, so perhaps it doesn’t really matter. Banging on about ‘preserving the union’ while not giving a toss about the people who live in various bits of it, especially if they voted remain, is a trendy bit of doublethink.

It’s like all this fake crap about fishing. There are 12,000 commercial fishermen in the UK. I feel for them, it looks like a horrible, dangerous job. They want exclusive rights to fishing in territorial waters, understandable. They also want the right to sell their fish tariff free to the EU, where 75% of their catch is currently sent. Doesn’t work does it?
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
1. If pre-vote representations don't matter, why is it that Remainers have consistently complained about the stuff on the side of that bus?

2. The Customs Union and the Single Market are essential parts of the EU. If we vote to leave the EU, we vote to leave both.
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On 2, that’s obviously not necessarily true given there are various examples of countries not in the EU but in the SM.

On 1, representations do matter and politicians in particular should be accountable when they come out with mindless buzzwords they aren’t in a place to promise. They shouldn’t be intentionally misleading as the bus claim and other promises were.
 
Quite Possibly Raving said:
Norway - in the Single Market.
Sweden - in the EU and thrrefore Single Market.

Makes that sort of arrangement feasible.

UK being outside of the customs union and single market makes it impossible.
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You may say with confidence it makes it impossible, but this is exactly why I am saying the Brexiters have to persuade the nation that it is possible. It's a highly technical issue that I admit is beyond my pay grade, but if it's not beyond yours, please do share with us why it is impossible.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
You may say with confidence it makes it impossible, but this is exactly why I am saying the Brexiters have to persuade the nation that it is possible. It's a highly technical issue that I admit is beyond my pay grade, but if it's not beyond yours, please do share with us why it is impossible.
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Very simply, because any technical solution still necessitates some sort of physical check, creating a harder border than exists at the moment, and thus contravening the Good Friday Agreement.
 
West WindsR said:
On 2, that’s obviously not necessarily true given there are various examples of countries not in the EU but in the SM.

On 1, representations do matter and politicians in particular should be accountable when they come out with mindless buzzwords they aren’t in a place to promise. They shouldn’t be intentionally misleading as the bus claim and other promises were.
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The EU licences third party countries to have access to the Single Market. That's a separate issue. We were told constantly that we would be out of the Single Market and Customs Union by the most senior politicians on both the Remain and Leave side. As you say, these representations do matter.
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
The EU licences third party countries to have access to the Single Market. That's a separate issue. We were told constantly that we would be out of the Single Market and Customs Union by the most senior politicians on both the Remain and Leave side. As you say, these representations do matter.
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So it really ought to have been on the ballot if they were in a position to guarantee that.
 
West WindsR said:
That’s a bit of a silly answer.
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How is that a silly answer,
Venezuela a massively oil rich country has people eating garbage, people leaving in their thousands, children dying of starvation, because a socialist government wasted billions trying to prove socialism works.
Socialism is great till you run out of other people’s money.
Corbyn has already said we would borrow billions to fund his madcap socialist nirvana, Liebour screwed the country last time they were in power and we have had years of austerity trying to repair it and some fools believe Jezzbollah is the answer, god help us if it comes to be.
 
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sb_73 said:
In 2016 there were 240,000 vehicle checks on the Sweden-Norway border. Smuggling is rife, mainly into Norway, because, as Norway isn’t a member of the EU, it has different taxes and duties, exactly the kind of ‘freedom’ doubtless the UK would want to exercise. Much of the smuggling is by organised crime gangs from Eastern Europe. This wouldn’t happen in Ireland, because organised crime is the hobby of many paramilitaries. Swedish companies rate Norway as the most difficult country to trade with, above China.

Just one of the many myths being peddled round. There is already plenty of smuggling over the Irish border due to different VAT rates, so perhaps it doesn’t really matter. Banging on about ‘preserving the union’ while not giving a toss about the people who live in various bits of it, especially if they voted remain, is a trendy bit of doublethink.

It’s like all this fake crap about fishing. There are 12,000 commercial fishermen in the UK. I feel for them, it looks like a horrible, dangerous job. They want exclusive rights to fishing in territorial waters, understandable. They also want the right to sell their fish tariff free to the EU, where 75% of their catch is currently sent. Doesn’t work does it?
Click to expand...

Answer, Stan - the UK should start eating it's own fish - we're all being told we shouldn't eat meat because of global warming. Presumably this doesn't apply to fish. I don't know, are fish flatulent?
 
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Turkish" Premier" Hoops said:
How is that a silly answer,
Venezuela a massively oil rich country has people eating garbage, people leaving in their thousands, children dying of starvation, because a socialist government wasted billions trying to prove socialism works.
Socialism is great till you run out of other people’s money.
Corbyn has already said we would borrow billions to fund his madcap socialist nirvana, Liebour screwed the country last time they were in power and we have had years of austerity trying to repair it and some fools believe Jezzbollah is the answer, god help us if it comes to be.
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Lots of governments borrow money. We could all read the Express and convince ourselves Corbyn is the devil but that would be boring.

I don’t think he’s the answer but at least he’s not going for the job out of ego. Maybe it wouldn’t work but I’d rather give it a go than yet more weak Tory/DUP leadership.
 
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Turkish" Premier" Hoops said:
The original idea of the EEC was good, a trade agreement that let goods move freely across the European continent, but it has mutated into a power mad machine that produces nothing, manufactures nothing, grows nothing, nor buys nor sells anything and I for whatever reason cannot see it’s justification or purpose for existing, so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on our feelings towards the machine.
I suppose I get irritated that because of my voting leave, people assume they have the right to wish me dead, call me a racist, tell me I’m stupid call me an uneducated brexitshiteer and thus I should recognise their opinion while they deride mine, and that is something I cannot and will not accept, everyone is entitled to an opinion and just because someone disagrees with mine, this does not automatically make their’s the right one.
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Very good response Turkish and I appreciate your opinion on this matter. Like I say, i don't see the issues you do and I suppose that's the same ratio all.over the country.
 
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daverangers said:
Trouble is, as arguments continue, and will clearly continue to rumble on in the UK, those in the EU will be in no rush to sort it, and in no rush to help out. The opinions of those I've spoken to in Paris could be summarised with the phrase; 'It's your mess, you clear it up.' One of my wife's colleagues asked her today if her country had gone mad. The EU will just keep ticking on as normal.
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I get exactly the same from my German and French friends they are bewildered
 
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Turkish" Premier" Hoops said:
How is that a silly answer,
Venezuela a massively oil rich country has people eating garbage, people leaving in their thousands, children dying of starvation, because a socialist government wasted billions trying to prove socialism works.
Socialism is great till you run out of other people’s money.
Corbyn has already said we would borrow billions to fund his madcap socialist nirvana, Liebour screwed the country last time they were in power and we have had years of austerity trying to repair it and some fools believe Jezzbollah is the answer, god help us if it comes to be.
Click to expand...
We are also a well off country, we have kids dieing in the streets on a daily basis, we have food banks used more than ever before..We have poverty, homeless people, a culture of drugs and violence. Less police on the streets, an overworked, under staffed nhs. School headmaster taking to the streets due to lack of funding. Services stripped to the bones! Yeah let's have more austerity. Thankfully the Tories are self destructing and even the most ardent voter will struggle to vote for them again.
 
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DT’s Socks said:
Col and the gang here have nothing in the way of any solution just the odd tell them to **** off

We are British blah blah blah just leave

Europe has acted in a dignified way

Blinkered nationalistic and ignorant to the facts

They all run off when challenged with the question where’s your post Brexit solution

Europeans are better people
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No one takes you seriously Paul, because you are a WUM, pure and simple.

An own country hating WUM.
 
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