The Massa Question

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does Mass astill belong in F1

  • yes

  • no

Results are only viewable after voting.
the_roadie said:
Curious. Massa's done exactly what's expected of a Ferrai No.2 which is to leave the leader to grab any glory going, and take any crap that the team picks up.
When they don't even treat him as well as a cycling team treats a domestique they can't expect much, and that's exactly what they've got.

Not Massa's problem, it's Ferrari's, where lead driver is a god, everyone else is expendable.

They'd inflict the same crap on any replacement, even if he managed to pick up some points
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Ferrari-hater.


They treat like like family, as they've stated many times. They show him support despite huge pressure from the media to replace him. They even built him a new chassis to help him in Malaysia. Apart from Germany 2010 (where the move had to be done for the sake of the championship), he has always been treated as an equal to Alonso.

Do you really think Ferrari want to see one driver behind Glock and Pic in the championship while the other is leading it?

Massa has a chance to beat the "lead driver" - he did that in 2008. He's simply not good enough to beat Alonso and that's his own problem.
 
Clearly Massa is no match for Alonso, so in this situation I can't see any reason for the team NOT to favour him. If you have one driver head and shoulders above the other it makes perfect sense to use one as a testing board if your car isn't that great.
 
the_roadie said:
When they don't even treat him as well as a cycling team treats a domestique they can't expect much, and that's exactly what they've got.
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In 2008 Ferrari were foursquare behind Massa's championship bid, even though it cost them dearly in 2009. Since his accident in 2009 they've remained loyal to him despite two seasons of being obliterated by Alonso, whose car almost took him to a WDC in 2010.

Ferrari will ruthlessly back their best bet for the WDC long before the mathematical possibilities are exhausted but I think the days of Austria 2002 are gone. The driver contracts allegedly include a clause about obeying team orders, not submitting to a team mate from the first race.
 
Rubens Barrichello said:
It isn't a speed problem, it's something that he has to solve himself. He has to close his eyes, enjoy himself and remember that he is doing this because he likes it. All of the times when I lost myself a little bit, I had forgotten that and reminded myself that I am doing this because I like it too. So [as drivers], we have to relax - and then we can improve. It's just a moment, and every moment in Formula 1 is a cycle of life. Certainly, Ferrari has a love for Alonso, because he is one of the best, if not the best, in F1. So, Felipe has a tough hurdle to overcome.
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Barrichello is a close friend of Massa and if there was any suspicion from Massa's side that Ferrari were mistreating him, Barrichello would be the first person to expose it.



About his rumoured replacement, there's an interview with Daddy Perez (in spanish).
http://video.mx.msn.com/watch/video/sergio-perez-en-la-mira-de-ferrari/t2t2nwl7?

From 0.44 onwards is the most interesting bit. I can't work out what he's saying for a small part of it though:

"Hasta ......... no lo podemos decir. Si Ferrari lo dice; es Ferrari. Nosotros no nuestro compromiso y de lo unico que podemos hablar nosotros es del contrato que tenemos con Peter Sauber - termina en Deciembre"

"Until......... we can not say it. If Ferrari say it, it's Ferrari. We do not commit and the only thing we can talk about is the contract we have with Peter Sauber - ending in December"
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Forza Ferrari said:
Barrichello is a close friend of Massa and if there was any suspicion from Massa's side that Ferrari were mistreating him, Barrichello would be the first person to expose it.
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Yeah - Massa's current situation isn't to do with being badly treated. Telling an off-form driver to "close his eyes, enjoy himself and remember that he is doing this because he likes it" is all well and good but I don't think Massa is especially off-form. I just don't believe he's that great a driver.

Interestingly, Barrichello was voted the ideal replacement for Massa in an Italian poll.
 
genjigonzales said:
Yeah - Massa's current situation isn't to do with being badly treated. Telling an off-form driver to "close his eyes, enjoy himself and remember that he is doing this because he likes it" is all well and good but I don't think Massa is especially off-form. I just don't believe he's that great a driver.

Interestingly, Barrichello was voted the ideal replacement for Massa in an Italian poll.
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Silverstone 2008 should've shown the world that he didn't deserve to be WDC, nose about face 5 times in one race.

Barrichello to Ferrari, after all he's said and implied in the past? would be a shock, but does make sense, he knows the team, would be too happy to be in F1 to complain about anything, but would his IndyCart commitments allow him to return?
 
Getting someone in to replace Massa would probably just be temporary and thus, probably not worth it if the car is as difficult as has been suggested. It's a shame really that the whole Kubica accident happened. I'm not a huge fan of Ferrari but I was rather looking forward to seeing Kubi and Alonso face off.
 
I hope Barichello stays Indy. He is currently doing great over there. Should it become a reality, him replacing Massa, I fear he will lack pace much more than Massa is currently as evidently Ferrari takes some time getting used to, which I am afraid he doesn't have very much left of . I like them both and wish for both of them to end their career on a high, so I really hope Massa can find his calm and form again, to yet have several successful years in the sport, and I hope Barichello keep improving, to be able to fight for the win over at Indycar.
 
A Domenicali interview with El Mundo suggests that, if Massa doesn't get good, quick, "he might struggle to find any place on the grid next season."

GMM said:
“Felipe needs to accept,” said Domenicali, “that he is facing a very strong teammate. If not, that hurts him. He needs to assume a clear role rather than trying to take advantage — you need to learn from Fernando, not challenge him.

“That (challenging) is the way to being destroyed by a teammate such as Alonso or Schumacher, who are real cannibals,” Domenicali insisted.

Apparently justifying Alonso’s dominant position, Domenicali said Ferrari has a “moral obligation to champion” the highly rated Spaniard.

And that influence will extend to the selection of his 2013 teammate, Domenicali hinted.

“He (Alonso) has a central role in the team, and he therefore participates in the important issues,” said the Italian.
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Massa I think will end up somewhere on the grid next season but it will not be Ferrari. A swap deal with Sauber (for Perez) or Caterham (for Kovalainen) might be in order. Of course, along with Hamilton and Schumacher, Massa (or rather, his Ferrari seat) is the key to this year's driver market!

Interesting that Domenicali admits that Alonso has such favouritism.
 
genjigonzales said:
Yeah - Massa's current situation isn't to do with being badly treated. Telling an off-form driver to "close his eyes, enjoy himself and remember that he is doing this because he likes it" is all well and good but I don't think Massa is especially off-form. I just don't believe he's that great a driver.

Interestingly, Barrichello was voted the ideal replacement for Massa in an Italian poll.
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There's a saying that you should never go back, and I think Barrichello is too wise to do that
 
Reginaldo Leme (Brazilian commentator) said:
It is very difficult to give an explanation for any driver’s bad phase. The car is very bad. The fact that Alonso is always scoring (points) just shows that the Spaniard is the best driver of this generation. No other driver, however good, could get anything out of that car. I think that’s what’s happening with Massa
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I wasn't going to post this as this man is likely to be a bit biased, but then I read:

Phillip Horton said:
Fernando Alonso continues to defy logic and be utterly brilliant. He may have Felipe Massa driving the other car, but engineers in the team have pointed out that Massa’s data matches his driving in 2008, when he was winning races.
http://www.f1zone.net/news/2012-what-have-we-learnt/13701/
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I don't know where Phillip Horton found this information but 2008-spec Massa was one of the best drivers on the grid. It will be interesting to see whether he can keep performing at this level - after all, didn't Domencali say that Massa needed to show his 2008 form to be re-signed? So maybe he still has a future at Ferrari...
 
Forza Ferrari said:
I don't know where Phillip Horton found this information but 2008-spec Massa was one of the best drivers on the grid. It will be interesting to see whether he can keep performing at this level - after all, didn't Domencali say that Massa needed to show his 2008 form to be re-signed? So maybe he still has a future at Ferrari...
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Getting back to his 2008 middling best is all very well but Ferrari will be looking for the results, not telemetry readings. Even if they can improve the F2012, it's not going to give them the competitiveness the F2008 had. Massa did well in Bahrain but di Montezemolo said at the end of last season that if they gave Massa a car that could heat its tyres up well then he expected him to come back to form. Bahrain's about the hottest race on the calendar and I don't expect Massa to break into that tight gaggle of front-runners often enough in 2012 to prove that he's worth a 2013 seat.
 
Massa has never been one of the best drivers in any year. To look good Massa needs a super fast car and a team-mate that's more interested in partying than anything else.
 
Massa had a bad qualifying yesterday and really needs a points finish today. Something isn't right when the team's twitter account says they're disappointed with one of their drivers. Unfortunately for Massa the tight grid made his performance look a lot worse.
 
Forza Ferrari said:
Massa had a bad qualifying yesterday and really needs a points finish today. Something isn't right when the team's twitter account says they're disappointed with one of their drivers. Unfortunately for Massa the tight grid made his performance look a lot worse.
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Alonso is the number 1 driver aka Schumacher of 10 years ago and Massa is the Barrichello of 10 years ago his bitch.
 
Massa shines for a few laps every race but just doesn't seem to be able to keep it up consistently lap after lap.
 
Okay, it's getting somewhat out of hand now. Alonso is probably outperforming the car, but that still doesn't mean Massa's positions have reflected the car's ability. He DOES need replacing, but Ferrari won't until the end of the year :( This isn't a case of money, as we all know they've got bucket loads, it's a case of feeling obligated after 2009. What should've happened (this is quite heartless but nevertheless) is they should've removed Massa not Raikkonen at the end of '09. Seeing as this hasn't happened, possibly do a straight swap plus cash with Sauber for Perez, or Jules Bianchi who is in the academy and currently 3rd driver for Force India
 
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