Off Topic The Environmental & Pollution Thread

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TheSecondStain said:
Well, I suspect that's where your real answer lies. You've been subject to FUD and have taken it at face value. Read around the subject.
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maybe, but I've not read anything by any scientist that says there's enough, they all say the opposite, that the materials will runout by around 2050 at todays production rate. And anything Musk says on any subject has to be treated with a great deal of skepticism as the guy talks **** for a living.
 
Big Ern said:
maybe, but I've not read anything by any scientist that says there's enough, they all say the opposite, that the materials will runout by around 2050 at todays production rate. And anything Musk says on any subject has to be treated with a great deal of skepticism as the guy talks **** for a living.
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Then you need to read more. There's plenty.
And you 'believe' that Musk talks **** for a living. That may not actually be true.
 
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Simple, clear message from Microsoft that it will go Carbon negative by 2030 and by 2050 it will have removed all the carbon the atmosphere it ever emitted since the company started. OK, it might be easier for a company like Microsoft, but it's a way forward. Most people are very quick to jump on MS for various reasons [they give us so many], so it's only right to give them some credit when they do the right thing:

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TheSecondStain said:
Simple, clear message from Microsoft that it will go Carbon negative by 2030 and by 2050 it will have removed all the carbon the atmosphere it ever emitted since the company started. OK, it might be easier for a company like Microsoft, but it's a way forward. Most people are very quick to jump on MS for various reasons [they give us so many], so it's only right to give them some credit when they do the right thing:

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Very good PR, but how do they plan to do this? I’d like to see a detailed plan on that
 
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davecg69 said:
From the excess in batteries of houses and electric cars? If we get more storage of electricity when we have excess solar and wind power, this is quite feasible.
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Seems like a lot of if's there, as for feasible surely we should absolute know by now if this is the path we are taking, just seems a big stretch to me to get enough electricity to charge millions of cars when we only just generte enough now, then also it may be that gas boilers will be on their way out soon i think that was one of labours policies for new build houses, even more electricity needed although electric heating is so expensive i don't think this is a goer just yet.
 
biggestfaggotontheplanet said:
Seems like a lot of if's there, as for feasible surely we should absolute know by now if this is the path we are taking, just seems a big stretch to me to get enough electricity to charge millions of cars when we only just generte enough now, then also it may be that gas boilers will be on their way out soon i think that was one of labours policies for new build houses, even more electricity needed although electric heating is so expensive i don't think this is a goer just yet.
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Have you never heard of renewable energy? There is a colossal amount of completely untapped energy from sun, wind, and tide. As has been said earlier, every new build home, factory, and office block should have solar panels or tiles.
As for the time factor, waiting isn’t an option. We have to do this now.
 
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TheSecondStain said:
National Grid representatives have already said several times that they'll be able to meet future demand. In fact, electric cars will make it easier to balance the Grid.
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The problem of generating electricity cleanly is being addressed, albeit far too slowly, and the National Grid have said it is possible to supply the amount required. What the National Grid are not telling us is that the Grid itself is archaic and has suffered badly because of a severe lack of investment. The whole system needs modernising but even today little is being done towards making it suitable for the ever growing demands on it.

The other problem is in the local electrical cable infrastructure in the UK, with a vast proportion of cabling dating back to the 30' and 40's so it isn't just a case of generation. It's a huge problem to feed that electricity out to where it is required with today's high current demands. All the talk of charging points on every lamp post is garbage because street lights are installed with low capacity cables, so plugging in 200 cars down a street for charging will just burn out the cables.
 
davecg69 said:
Very good PR, but how do they plan to do this? I’d like to see a detailed plan on that
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IIRC they pay money to poor countries in exchange for 'carbon offsetting', so you just end up with loads of poor countries with massive carbon deficits as well as financial ones.
 
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Kaito said:
The problem of generating electricity cleanly is being addressed, albeit far too slowly, and the National Grid have said it is possible to supply the amount required. What the National Grid are not telling us is that the Grid itself is archaic and has suffered badly because of a severe lack of investment. The whole system needs modernising but even today little is being done towards making it suitable for the ever growing demands on it.

The other problem is in the local electrical cable infrastructure in the UK, with a vast proportion of cabling dating back to the 30' and 40's so it isn't just a case of generation. It's a huge problem to feed that electricity out to where it is required with today's high current demands. All the talk of charging points on every lamp post is garbage because street lights are installed with low capacity cables, so plugging in 200 cars down a street for charging will just burn out the cables.
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So a lot of employment opportunities for renewing our antiquated infrastructure,
Of course there are those who will ask, "How are we going to pay for all this?" Quite simply. You employ engineers, technicians, skilled and unskilled workers and the money they earn goes back into the economy through the usual channels of purchases and taxes. Everything gets back to the Treasury eventually. It does mean that a Tory government has to behave somewhat like a Labour one, but they've done that in the past. And Buffoon is setting himself up partially to be a One Nation Tory, so he can go some way to proving it by investing in the infrastructure.
This country has to stop screwing around and get with it. It's an opportunity, so let's take it.
 
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On that point, Southampton City Council answered my question on residential chargers for people with no driveways, that because of "technical reasons" [nothing specific given] they couldn't take feeds from lampposts. Yet other cities and towns can. Personally, I think the "technical reason" is placement. In Southampton, many residential lampposts are placed on the inside of paths, whereas in the borough and city centre they are placed on the outside of the path, next to the road. Can't have residents trailing charge cables across paths. But we could take a feed under the path to a charge post at the kerb edge. Look at these examples of residential charging:

Start this Vox video at 4:00 [or watch the lot]:
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Or there is this example from Fully Charged:
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For a city, Southampton has gone from some of the relatively cleanest air in the UK, in the pre-diesel days, to being one of the dirtiest. Yet the motivation to progress is either dead slow or stop. Here are a couple of options.

BTW, meant to say that although I admire Norway's thrust to electrification, I do find it hypocritical too. Passing that oil and gas to some other country. It's not good. Then again, some other oil producing country would only go and fill the void. Dammit!
Also, I should say that the Vox video is from mid-2017, so things have progressed at lot since. The FC video is from mid-2019.
 
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Interesting videos TSS and I enjoyed watching them. Norway is a special case and and they have a very forward thinking government. They are cleaning up their country by selling oil and gas to other countries so effectively shifting their pollution elsewhere. Good for Norway but not for everyone else.

It will be impossible for the UK to replicate their switch to electric in such a small time frame. It just can't be done on such a scale, especially with our government fixated on looking back to the glory days of the British Empire rather than acting progressively.

Did you notice that the Urban Electric guy said they ran new cables directly back to the grid feed (substation) so no mention of using existing cabling. I'm interested to know if you feel it is feasible to dig up hundreds of thousands of pavements and roads around the country to replace cables and install charging points? I struggle to see how it can be done, and the environmental impact of doing that will be horrendous.

We drive a diesel VW Golf and when the lease is up at the end of this year we will be looking at a far more environmentally friendly option. We have already reduced our car travel from around 25,000 to a little over 6,000 miles per year. It could get to the point where an electric car is perfect for us and to be honest, I can't wait. I have never been wedded to the idea of owning a car so if the day comes when it's possible to rent an electric car on a day by day basis that is what I would do.
 
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TheSecondStain said:
Here's a bit of news about air quality from a sporting perspective. Note the PM2.5 figure considered worthy of stopping a match:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/51159982

Hold that thought. Did you know that the kerbside PM2.5 pollution in certain areas of Central London approaches that every day? and the big shocker is that the PM2.5 count in the Underground has measured way over that figure. Prolonged exposure can result in asthma attacks, heart attacks, strokes, and premature death in FIT PEOPLE.
I will try to find a video I know showing a device measuring PM2.5 counts as the bearer walks through a station down to the trains.
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Whilst undoubtably the underground is the worst place for air quality due to lack of ventilation, in a recent study of children fitted with monitors for nitrogen monoxide and particles poorly ventilated kitchens showed the biggest spikes and extremes, even compared to their walks to and from school.

The other big challenges is dealing with fine metal particulates from brakes.
 
OddRiverOakWizards said:
Whilst undoubtably the underground is the worst place for air quality due to lack of ventilation, in a recent study of children fitted with monitors for nitrogen monoxide and particles poorly ventilated kitchens showed the biggest spikes and extremes, even compared to their walks to and from school.

The other big challenges is dealing with fine metal particulates from brakes.
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Indeed, from brakes. Most of the problem with the PM2.5 in the London Underground is said to be from the trains applying their brakes - they have no regenerative braking. I'm guessing the next versions certainly will.
But did you also know that PM2.5 and PM10 particles come from vehicle tyres? Just when you think regenerative braking solves the problem, it only reduces it. There is a lot of research going into tyres that don't produce masses of micro particles as they wear. Metal particles can be extracted from the environment, and they are heavier.

As for kitchens, yeah. That's a great point. Thankfully, my kitchen is well ventilated, but I have wondered about other people's kitchens. And I have a gas hob too. It's my enthusiasm as a cook fighting against my environmental concerns. Gas is just a great controllable contact heat. And certain dishes actually depend upon the fast application of fire. But I'm going to have to bend to it. My next hob won't be gas.
 
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There are now some serious problems starting to appear around the globe due to the climate crisis. The UN Human Rights Committee has put governments on notice that they can not refuse to house or attempt to return people to countries where where their lives might be threatened by the climate crisis. This is a 'tipping point' and should be a huge wake up call every government to the effect that we can not just abandon people to their fate.

Everyone has a right to expect not only help when things get bad where they live, but for us in the West we need to do something positive to bring about reversing the effects of climate change and to prevent things getting worse in the future.

We just can't afford to sit back and make a few changes to a few things and hope that it will all turn out ok in the end, because it won't. There's no time left to tinker with anything just so we can say we are doing something. It's about time that all governments started listening to the scientists and acting on their recommendations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ned-home-says-landmark-un-human-rights-ruling
 
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TheSecondStain said:
Indeed, from brakes. Most of the problem with the PM2.5 in the London Underground is said to be from the trains applying their brakes - they have no regenerative braking. I'm guessing the next versions certainly will.
But did you also know that PM2.5 and PM10 particles come from vehicle tyres? Just when you think regenerative braking solves the problem, it only reduces it. There is a lot of research going into tyres that don't produce masses of micro particles as they wear. Metal particles can be extracted from the environment, and they are heavier.

As for kitchens, yeah. That's a great point. Thankfully, my kitchen is well ventilated, but I have wondered about other people's kitchens. And I have a gas hob too. It's my enthusiasm as a cook fighting against my environmental concerns. Gas is just a great controllable contact heat. And certain dishes actually depend upon the fast application of fire. But I'm going to have to bend to it. My next hob won't be gas.
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I love to cook, also, TSS and when I had my kitchen redone I (reluctantly I must admit) gave up my gas hob for an induction one. I’ve taken a little while to get used to it, but now I’m happy with the instant heat it gives on the “boil” option plus the ability to have different zones at different temperatures all easily controlled. I haven’t had an actual bill for gas/electric since I installed it (issues with Scottish Power - I keep sending them meter readings and they send me an estimated bill. I’ll be shot of them after today - solar panels being installed as we “speak”) but I’m fairly confident it is more efficient than gas as there’s very little “lost” heat.
 
Kaito said:
There are now some serious problems starting to appear around the globe due to the climate crisis. The UN Human Rights Committee has put governments on notice that they can not refuse to house or attempt to return people to countries where where their lives might be threatened by the climate crisis. This is a 'tipping point' and should be a huge wake up call every government to the effect that we can not just abandon people to their fate.

Everyone has a right to expect not only help when things get bad where they live, but for us in the West we need to do something positive to bring about reversing the effects of climate change and to prevent things getting worse in the future.

We just can't afford to sit back and make a few changes to a few things and hope that it will all turn out ok in the end, because it won't. There's no time left to tinker with anything just so we can say we are doing something. It's about time that all governments started listening to the scientists and acting on their recommendations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ned-home-says-landmark-un-human-rights-ruling
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Absolutely agree. But I’ve been labelled an alarmist, an eco-terrorist and a weirdo for banging on to people I know about the importance of tackling climate change. Sorry to bring politics into this, but most of the people I’ve cannot get to accept global warming (“it’s always been up and down with temperatures”, “there’s no such thing as global warming” and “it’s just scare-mongering to sell more things”) tend to be Brexiteers and I despair of where we’re going as a human race ......
 
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