Summer transfer thread

[WorkyTicketFTM]

A quick look on transfermarkt you can see how stagnant the market is at the minute - I’d say no club has really improved their squad from last season. Norwich have retained most of their squad so far but I’d expect them to lose a couple - think they’ll win the league though. WBA signing John Swift is great business but they’ve lost Sam Johnston which is a huge loss and they were horrific under Bruce. Probably end up eating my words but I think Burnley will be bottom half. Can’t see them spending a lot of money and they’re replacing bags of premier league experience with league one players and loans plus a new manager who’s done nothing in his only managerial role. Watford have lost some key players as have Blackburn.

Obviously still very early days and clubs are waiting for Prem teams to do their business but some of the bigger clubs in the league have a lot of first team players to not only replace but to try and better.


https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2

 

[Scootsie]

James Young has been a very good appointment too and worth his salary.

I’ve always wondered how people like him work.

Does he use certain systems to collect data and then pass it on to recruitment? Or does he work a bit like a scout?

Or does he just analyse opposition?

Might sound like a stupid question like.

 

[Southern A]

I’ve always wondered how people like him work.

Does he use certain systems to collect data and then pass it on to recruitment? Or does he work a bit like a scout?

Or does he just analyse opposition?

Might sound like a stupid question like.

Based on his background, I'd imagine it a case of management / scouts / recruitment telling him the kind of evidence they want, and him then having to go away and model data to demonstrate that criteria.

For example asking for a player with high shots on target is easy to model. But asking for a player that is good at winning the ball in the air from players that are specifically over 6 foot 3, and then ensuring that possession win gets to a team mate rather than an opposition player, isn't the kind of data that is readily available and would require data mining and modelling.

Similarly assists are easy to model. As are assists of assists. But what about modelling how often a player wins possession and that possession win leads to a goal, even if 10 passes followed it.

Also two players with 80% shots on target score might look similar. But if one of those players hit every ball at the keeper in slow motion, and the other one won 18 corners of which 4 were scored from, you'd want the second one.

If there's a reason why these examples look crap, it's why he's doing the job and not me

 

[The Berk]

This man could, quite literally, do anything he fancied in any part of the world.

Yet he sits in grubby little stadiums watching L1 football and listening to supporters griping on about the pitch, the tannoy, the staff, etc.

You could forgive him for wanting to buy a super yacht and sail it around F1 venues or down to Marseille for the games, not forgetting the Bahamas when it's a bit nippy.

But he's committed himself to sorting out a mess of a club in the far NE, not just throwing a bit of cash down and signing a bunch of temporary players like Roy Keane did.

We're now attracting hungry young players with ambition and quality ...

... I get why people find it all hard to grasp, personally I'm sitting back and loving it all.

The daft twàt.

 

[Southern A]

worth also pointing out that all his data will do is provide a list of players for recruitment to go and watch (either in person or digitally). They might be rubbish and immediately dismiss them. The data is just a way of identifying WHO to watch, not of identifying guaranteed signings.

On the flip side, they might spot somebody "by eye" or by reputation, and then use the data team the opposite way, by then validating that his data backs up what they're wanting.

 

[Scootsie]

Based on his background, I'd imagine it a case of management / scouts / recruitment telling him the kind of evidence they want, and him then having to go away and model data to demonstrate that criteria.

For example asking for a player with high shots on target is easy to model. But asking for a player that is good at winning the ball in the air from players that are specifically over 6 foot 3, and then ensuring that possession win gets to a team mate rather than an opposition player, isn't the kind of data that is readily available and would require data mining and modelling.

Similarly assists are easy to model. As are assists of assists. But what about modelling how often a player wins possession and that possession win leads to a goal, even if 10 passes followed it.

Also two players with 80% shots on target score might look similar. But if one of those players hit every ball at the keeper in slow motion, and the other one won 18 corners of which 4 were scored from, you'd want the second one.

If there's a reason why these examples look crap, it's why he's doing the job and not me

I’m fascinated by stuff like this. It would be a dream career, if I wasn’t thick as ****

It’d be interesting to see exactly what we’re looking for this summer, data wise.

I like the way Brentford signed Benrahma, where they found that he was getting into good positions regularly but wasn’t scoring the goals, so they saw something to work with.

I’d like to think we’re looking for similar.

 

[Southern A]

I’m fascinated by stuff like this. It would be a dream career, if I wasn’t thick as ****

It’d be interesting to see exactly what we’re looking for this summer, data wise.

I like the way Brentford signed Benrahma, where they found that he was getting into good positions regularly but wasn’t scoring the goals, so they saw something to work with.

I’d like to think we’re looking for similar.

me too. And I work with James' team in his old job quite a lot, so I know the kind of stuff they do. It's so cool. Although its not usually for football teams and usually for mundane reasons. Either way I'd love to do it and would see myself as an enthusiastic amateur. I'd have to take quite a large pay cut to move into that team as I'd need to drop a few grades, so my wife won't let me

 

[Downeys Loup]

me too. And I work with James' team in his old job quite a lot, so I know the kind of stuff they do. It's so cool. Although its not usually for football teams and usually for mundane reasons. Either way I'd love to do it and would see myself as an enthusiastic amateur. I'd have to take quite a large pay cut to move into that team as I'd need to drop a few grades, so my wife won't let me

It will pay for itself many times over if you can identify the players who are the right fit but aren’t already getting a lot of attention. Seems so far the club are getting good value for money and not having to overspend as agents play clubs off against each other.

 

[Montysoptician]

I’m fascinated by stuff like this. It would be a dream career, if I wasn’t thick as ****

It’d be interesting to see exactly what we’re looking for this summer, data wise.

I like the way Brentford signed Benrahma, where they found that he was getting into good positions regularly but wasn’t scoring the goals, so they saw something to work with.

I’d like to think we’re looking for similar.

This article is nearly a year old but I found it a decent read:
https://trainingground.guru/articles/james-young-the-role-of-data-in-sunderlands-brave-new-world

 

[BackO'TheNet]

A quick look on transfermarkt you can see how stagnant the market is at the minute - I’d say no club has really improved their squad from last season. Norwich have retained most of their squad so far but I’d expect them to lose a couple - think they’ll win the league though. WBA signing John Swift is great business but they’ve lost Sam Johnston which is a huge loss and they were horrific under Bruce. Probably end up eating my words but I think Burnley will be bottom half. Can’t see them spending a lot of money and they’re replacing bags of premier league experience with league one players and loans plus a new manager who’s done nothing in his only managerial role. Watford have lost some key players as have Blackburn.

Obviously still very early days and clubs are waiting for Prem teams to do their business but some of the bigger clubs in the league have a lot of first team players to not only replace but to try and better.


https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2

Good knowledge there mate...

 

[Smug in Boots]

The daft twàt.

Must be some kind of tax write off

 

[TopCat.]

I wonder if a loan for Diamond could be included in the Rudoni deal? I think we will get him, just a matter of time.

Diamond will be 23 in January. If a loan to L2 is the best we can do, then we might as well sell him. IMHO, if you are looking to develop a player through a series of loans then ideally each loan should be at a higher level than the last one. Look at Pickford's progression through the leagues:

Darlington (loan) 2011–12 Conference Premier
Alfreton Town (loan) 2012–13 Conference Premier
Burton Albion (loan) 2013–14 League Two
Carlisle United (loan) 2013–14 League One
Bradford City (loan) 2014–15 League One
Preston North End (loan) 2015–16 Championship

Not saying Diamond can hit the heights of Pickford, but at the age of 22/23 I'd hope he would be capable of playing higher end L1, unless it's just the case that he's not good enough to play higher than L2

 

[Oliver's Army]

Diamond will be 23 in January. If a loan to L2 is the best we can do, then we might as well sell him. IMHO, if you are looking to develop a player through a series of loans then ideally each loan should be at a higher level than the last one. Look at Pickford's progression through the leagues:

Darlington (loan) 2011–12 Conference Premier
Alfreton Town (loan) 2012–13 Conference Premier
Burton Albion (loan) 2013–14 League Two
Carlisle United (loan) 2013–14 League One
Bradford City (loan) 2014–15 League One
Preston North End (loan) 2015–16 Championship

Not saying Diamond can hit the heights of Pickford, but at the age of 22/23 I'd hope he would be capable of playing higher end L1, unless it's just the case that he's not good enough to play higher than L2

Strange one with Diamond. He was excellent for Harrogate but I get the feeling he won't be with us at the start of the season one way or the other.

They should be looking higher than L2 for him if it's a loan, I agree.

 

[The Berk]

Good knowledge there mate...

Aye, let’s gan watch Sunderland away to Accrington, pie peas and thirty ight pence tax relief.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Strange one with Diamond. He was excellent for Harrogate but I get the feeling he won't be with us at the start of the season one way or the other.

They should be looking higher than L2 for him if it's a loan, I agree.

Part-ex for Rudoni ...

 

[Oliver's Army]

Part-ex for Rudoni ...

He will do well for them in L2 I reckon. If he'd have had those loans earlier in his career it would have been better for him.

 

[Scootsie]

This article is nearly a year old but I found it a decent read:
https://trainingground.guru/articles/james-young-the-role-of-data-in-sunderlands-brave-new-world

Good read, that.

Cheers, mate.

 

[Carl and the Passions]

Part-ex for Rudoni ...

Suggestion?

 

[Smug in Boots]

He will do well for them in L2 I reckon. If he'd have had those loans earlier in his career it would have been better for him.

I've a Charlton 'mate' who's a bit strange and works as a turnstile operator on match days/car park attendant through the week so he can tell himself he works for the club ... he's retired so fair enough.

Anyway he actually became friends with Johnnie Jackson who'd been there for yonks. He's been messaging talking about how he'd like Rudoni to go to Sunderland by preference and that Jackson would like a Sunderland player on loan as px. He was joking about Neil or Patterson but I reckon Diamond would suit them.

And if he can't step up this season it's time for him to go imo.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Suggestion?

Winchester.

I really like the lad, just not convinced he's specialised enough for a particular position or adaptable enough for multiple roles.