Transfer Rumours Summer 2024 transfer thread

[Amin Arrears]

Hamilton has barely played a first team game for anyone and Robertson has played fewer games than Burns.

I'd much rather sign these kind of players on loans to see how they are initially before committing. We might lose a gem along the way - but equally we could avoid signing a dud.

£3.5m is a lot for us to spend on an unproven young forward when we need to get so many other players in. Middlesbrough already have a decent squad in place - they are in a completely different place to us.

Hamilton is not going to throw away his shot.

 

[Steven Toast]

I don’t fully disagree but I think you have to accept we will have a mix of a squad this summer.

Signing players for a low fee like Robertson is high risk - I wouldn’t be against some them but filling a squad with it would be madness. The best loan players available, the top PL clubs won’t entertain an option. Liverpool were never going to put an option in Carvalho’s deal, should we really turn that opportunity down for long term planning?

As ever it comes down to budgets, the deal that PL clubs are likely to accept and the necessity for what other business you need to do. Shutting off all loans because they won’t be here next season seems daft, shutting off experienced heads because you want to only make a profit also seems daft. Going down the middle will provide more risk, but more reward - but I wouldn’t fancy a squad full of them.

At this stage we also need to get bodies in the building now. There’s a ton of work to do.

Yeah I agree, we aren't really at the place where we can sign unproven players when we don't even have a solid core of lads to fall back on.

This isn't the time for unearthing the next Jarrod Bowen or KLP, this is the time to get the Garcias, Ashbees and Turners in.

 

[NewcastleTiger]

That's fine, but sign them with an option then.

It does all come down to your scouting and the path to the first team. The reason I think it's a sensible approach to sign young players permanently is because a good Championship player goes for £10m, if you're signing a Robertson for a six figure fee as I've read, you don't need many to work for the strategy to be successful. Plus young players should command lower wages so we hopefully don't have to keep running an operating loss of £20m. They won't all work, fans are quick to write players off too so more patience would be needed, but we're seeing Simons and Longman beginning to look like decent players. Longman looked good in his first few months with us, but had a tough couple of years. Now he's looking more like the lad who joined just significantly bigger.

If you compare that to our approach of last season, we spent a lot of money on high-profile loans who didn't work out as expected. I'd include Giles, Vinagre, Twine and Zaroury in that. Yes, some loans worked (ironically some weren't high profile), but we're now left with nothing, it's a complete rebuild and our FFP position is damaged/hurt etc. It's just not a sustainable model.

I think LD is a loss too because he did provide us with some gems for a pittance.

Robertson is going for £3m, Hamilton £3.5m.

It’s a funny one really because we just need bodies, it’s not like we aren’t going down the long term route with Zambrano, Drameh etc so far

 

[Shark Sports]

Yeah I agree, we aren't really at the place where we can sign unproven players when we don't even have a solid core of lads to fall back on.

This isn't the time for unearthing the next Jarrod Bowen or KLP, this is the time to get the Garcias, Ashbees and Turners in.

But we seem to be going for a lot of unproven players, Zambrano, Hughes, Burns etc. I've no idea what the plan is in the final third as Conway seems a pie-in-the-sky signing.

Robertson is going for £3m, Hamilton £3.5m.

It’s a funny one really because we just need bodies, it’s not like we aren’t going down the long term route with Zambrano, Drameh etc so far

I read like £600k, that's mad money. Hamilton seems fair price though

We only need bodies because it's been mismanaged this summer.

EDIT: just seen the Robertson thing that it could eventually rise to £3m seems its around £1m guaranteed. That's not bad.

 

[balkan tiger]

But that's the market we are operating in.

Simply, we can't afford to buy a squad full of proven top level Championship talents. Either we spend on proven players, but they cost more - we sign risks which might be cheaper but are big when they come off - or we take risks on some young talent.

If the talent is promising enough - PL clubs will want to loan them out to see how they get on before they decide to keep them or sell them.

If they sell them, chances are they will be expensive if they've had a successful loan in the Championship already or they'll be a bit cheaper and we might all be underwhelmed because they have disappointed elsewhere.

We don't have a big enough budget to sign 'proven reliable players' across the board.

The proven player reminded me of this from 2015

Ah the proven striker like Torres the goal machine at Liverpool who flopped at Chelsea. Liverpool spent most of the Torres money on Andy Carrol another proven striker who flopped at his new club. I bet there were loads of good stats on both of those.
The bottom line is that signing a new player is a gamble, so do you risk a little bit or a lot of money. There is no garantee (sp) that the more you pay the better you get.

 

[Kalman II]

That's fine, but sign them with an option then.

It does all come down to your scouting and the path to the first team. The reason I think it's a sensible approach to sign young players permanently is because a good Championship player goes for £10m, if you're signing a Robertson for a six figure fee as I've read, you don't need many to work for the strategy to be successful. Plus young players should command lower wages so we hopefully don't have to keep running an operating loss of £20m. They won't all work, fans are quick to write players off too so more patience would be needed, but we're seeing Simons and Longman beginning to look like decent players. Longman looked good in his first few months with us, but had a tough couple of years. Now he's looking more like the lad who joined just significantly bigger.

If you compare that to our approach of last season, we spent a lot of money on high-profile loans who didn't work out as expected. I'd include Giles, Vinagre, Twine and Zaroury in that. Yes, some loans worked (ironically some weren't high profile), but we're now left with nothing, it's a complete rebuild and our FFP position is damaged/hurt etc. It's just not a sustainable model.

I think LD is a loss too because he did provide us with some gems for a pittance.

I’m inclined to agree with you. I think loans should be with buy-options or loans for young players as squad depth without buy-options who can be given minutes to impress. You can maybe sign one high-profile loan player without a buy-option like Carvalho as a short-term fix as well.

Where we went wrong last season was having three or four key players in the starting XI without buy-options. Morton, Delap, Carvalho, Zaroury etc. are good players but they weren’t our players and we had little chance of signing them permanently. Depending on them as key players last season is why we’re in the mess we’re in now.

 

[Shark Sports]

I’m inclined to agree with you. I think loans should be with buy-options or loans for young players as squad depth without buy-options who can be given minutes to impress. You can maybe sign one high-profile loan player without a buy-option like Carvalho as a short-term fix as well.

Where we went wrong last season was having three or four key players in the starting XI without buy-options. Morton, Delap, Carvalho, Zaroury etc. are good players but they weren’t our players and we had little chance of signing them permanently. Depending on them as key players last season is why we’re in the mess we’re in now.

The odd high-profile loan player that you believe will be a difference-maker is fine.

I don't love signing young defenders on loan as back ups. I'll be optimistic and say we get Hughes, if he needs a spell out the side, having someone less experienced to replace him feels naive. People have said we shouldn't go with Smith because he's too inexperienced, yet he's played around twice as many games as Burns, and only 8 (?) of those have come at CB. I'm sure Burns will be a level or 2 above, but the point remains.

It all just feels off to me, and I think a lot of people are just happy at a signing even though it's a position which isn't a pressing need right now

 

[NewcastleTiger]

I’m inclined to agree with you. I think loans should be with buy-options or loans for young players as squad depth without buy-options who can be given minutes to impress. You can maybe sign one high-profile loan player without a buy-option like Carvalho as a short-term fix as well.

Where we went wrong last season was having three or four key players in the starting XI without buy-options. Morton, Delap, Carvalho, Zaroury etc. are good players but they weren’t our players and we had little chance of signing them permanently. Depending on them as key players last season is why we’re in the mess we’re in now.

This is part of the problem I have with those who wax lyrical about Rosenior. He was happy for all the high quality players to come in with a short term view only, but constantly spoke of what we were building. If he was still here we’d be in the same position only difference is the current squad wouldn’t be learning a new system

 

[SydneyTiger14]

This is part of the problem I have with those who wax lyrical about Rosenior. He was happy for all the high quality players to come in with a short term view only, but constantly spoke of what we were building. If he was still here we’d be in the same position only difference is the current squad wouldn’t be learning a new system

I think if Rosenior was still here we'd have more signings in the door both because we wouldn't have had to adjust our target list and he was more of a known quantity for clubs and players.

 

[Shark Sports]

This is part of the problem I have with those who wax lyrical about Rosenior. He was happy for all the high quality players to come in with a short term view only, but constantly spoke of what we were building. If he was still here we’d be in the same position only difference is the current squad wouldn’t be learning a new system

I liked him but this was a mistake. But you don't get time in football and under Acun I don't think anyone will get time.

But what's the reason for the lack of signings? Is it the manager being very specific, Acun not being interested or players not wanting to come? Or a little bit of everything

 

[Kalman II]

The odd high-profile loan player that you believe will be a difference-maker is fine.

I don't love signing young defenders on loan as back ups. I'll be optimistic and say we get Hughes, if he needs a spell out the side, having someone less experienced to replace him feels naive. People have said we shouldn't go with Smith because he's too inexperienced, yet he's played around twice as many games as Burns, and only 8 (?) of those have come at CB. I'm sure Burns will be a level or 2 above, but the point remains.

It all just feels off to me, and I think a lot of people are just happy at a signing even though it's a position which isn't a pressing need right now

Ideally, we’d sign a young but talented centre-half like Hughes as a direct replacement for Greaves like Brentford and Brighton have done for years. That’s not to say we shouldn’t sign older, experienced players but we should replace our most valuable assets with young talent so that we may replicate it.

It’s why I can’t stand suggestions like Scott McKenna or Liam Cooper. Aside from not actually suiting the style of football, they have little resale value and would demand high wages. I do agree that a hypothetical scenario of Jones, McLoughlin, Hughes and Smith would probably require an older head over a younger loanee if we did need another centre-half.

 

[NewcastleTiger]

I think if Rosenior was still here we'd have more signings in the door both because we wouldn't have had to adjust our target list and he was more of a known quantity for clubs and players.

I liked him but this was a mistake. But you don't get time in football and under Acun I don't think anyone will get time.

But what's the reason for the lack of signings? Is it the manager being very specific, Acun not being interested or players not wanting to come? Or a little bit of everything

It’s a funny one, let’s hope in 12 hours we’ll know why. If Acun has taken a step back already, Slater’s dad almost implied that, then we know that his brain team struggle to get things over the line without his ability to make players feel wanted (I’m sure Rosie played a factor too)

 

[NewcastleTiger]

Ideally, we’d sign a young but talented centre-half like Hughes as a direct replacement for Greaves like Brentford and Brighton have done for years. That’s not to say we shouldn’t sign older, experienced players but we should replace our most valuable assets with young talent so that we may replicate it.

It’s why I can’t stand suggestions like Scott McKenna or Liam Cooper. Aside from not actually suiting the style of football, they have little resale value and would demand high wages. I do agree that a hypothetical scenario of Jones, McLoughlin, Hughes and Smith would probably require an older head over a younger loanee if we did need another centre-half.

Burns has probably had the best coaching of the lot of them in terms of possession football at the back in fairness. Might not have the senior experience but definitely has the coaching from the highest level.

Man City’s academy is so far ahead of others along with Arsenal’s and Chelsea’s players are being tailor made for the top

 

[Shark Sports]

Ideally, we’d sign a young but talented centre-half like Hughes as a direct replacement for Greaves like Brentford and Brighton have done for years. That’s not to say we shouldn’t sign older, experienced players but we should replace our most valuable assets with young talent so that we may replicate it.

It’s why I can’t stand suggestions like Scott McKenna or Liam Cooper. Aside from not actually suiting the style of football, they have little resale value and would demand high wages. I do agree that a hypothetical scenario of Jones, McLoughlin, Hughes and Smith would probably require an older head over a younger loanee if we did need another centre-half.

Don't you think we make recruitment 10x harder by trying to play a high level style/Pep style/whatever you want to call it?

I immediately thought of a good backup being someone in the mould of Alex Bruce, mature, dependable, reliable, cheapish, and happy to be a bit part player. But with this style, and LR's was the same too, it's a non-starter as you have to be technically very good as well. It limits your market massively.

It's like the keeper situation last year, there was so much reliance on them being good with the feet that we ended up getting one who wasn't good with his hands and it cost us a lot of goals.

It's not entertaining football either, LR's football wasn't entertaining and I've not enjoyed Tim's either.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Don't you think we make recruitment 10x harder by trying to play a high level style/Pep style/whatever you want to call it?

I immediately thought of a good backup being someone in the mould of Alex Bruce, mature, dependable, reliable, cheapish, and happy to be a bit part player. But with this style, and LR's was the same too, it's a non-starter as you have to be technically very good as well. It limits your market massively.

It's like the keeper situation last year, there was so much reliance on them being good with the feet that we ended up getting one who wasn't good with his hands and it cost us a lot of goals.

It's not entertaining football either, LR's football wasn't entertaining and I've not enjoyed Tim's either.

When Rosenior's clicked it was excellent. Look at performances such as Southampton away. Even the first half an hour against Millwall at home was brilliant with the one touch passing. It was just inconsistent because the squad was so young and learning. Look at Leeds in their first season under Bielsa for instance.

 

[NewcastleTiger]

Don't you think we make recruitment 10x harder by trying to play a high level style/Pep style/whatever you want to call it?

I immediately thought of a good backup being someone in the mould of Alex Bruce, mature, dependable, reliable, cheapish, and happy to be a bit part player. But with this style, and LR's was the same too, it's a non-starter as you have to be technically very good as well. It limits your market massively.

It's like the keeper situation last year, there was so much reliance on them being good with the feet that we ended up getting one who wasn't good with his hands and it cost us a lot of goals.

It's not entertaining football either, LR's football wasn't entertaining and I've not enjoyed Tim's either.

Tim’s is very hard to judge at this stage though in fairness.

Do agree on the whole though, Pep’s style is taking over and it’s depressing. Especially at our level… hoping we see it in all its glory opening day for Bristol as they also play that way

 

[NewcastleTiger]

When Rosenior's clicked it was excellent. Look at performances such as Southampton away. Even the first half an hour against Millwall at home was brilliant with the one touch passing. It was just inconsistent because the squad was so young and learning. Look at Leeds in their first season under Bielsa for instance.

Bielsa is much more similar to what we are trying to do now. They drew very few games because they went for the jugular and put teams to the sword when they were on top. I’m not even sure you can really call them inconsistent in his first season? They finished 3rd with no parachute payments, won 25 games drew 8.

 

[Shark Sports]

When Rosenior's clicked it was excellent. Look at performances such as Southampton away. Even the first half an hour against Millwall at home was brilliant with the one touch passing. It was just inconsistent because the squad was so young and learning. Look at Leeds in their first season under Bielsa for instance.

I completely agree, but making it click regularly without parachute payments feels like an unachievable goal.

Tim’s is very hard to judge at this stage though in fairness.

Do agree on the whole though, Pep’s style is taking over and it’s depressing. Especially at our level… hoping we see it in all its glory opening day for Bristol as they also play that way

I don't think Tim will be here very long. I hope I'm wrong but I think his style is madness in the Championship and with where we are right now, it feels crackers. We play well for spells and look good but then concede goals so easily. Pre-season has been the worst I can remember, there's a few caveats mind.

I never liked the appointment and nothing I've seen him has changed my mind.

 

[Shark Sports]

Bielsa is much more similar to what we are trying to do now. They drew very few games because they went for the jugular and put teams to the sword when they were on top. I’m not even sure you can really call them inconsistent in his first season? They finished 3rd with no parachute payments, won 25 games drew 8.

Leeds are a slight anomaly revenue-wise as they turned over £48m without parachutes and still had an operating loss of £36m. Wage bill was £46m.

 

[NewcastleTiger]

I completely agree, but making it click regularly without parachute payments feels like an unachievable goal.



I don't think Tim will be here very long. I hope I'm wrong but I think his style is madness in the Championship and with where we are right now, it feels crackers. We play well for spells and look good but then concede goals so easily. Pre-season has been the worst I can remember, there's a few caveats mind.

I never liked the appointment and nothing I've seen him has changed my mind.

I thinks it’s very similar to Bielsa’s he just desperately needs players, it’s madness yes but everyone else is doing the same thing, with the right personnel it’ll be fine.