Off Topic So, what now?

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Brexit wasn’t a ‘left wing vs right wing’ battle - despite the press, politicians - and some on here trying to make out it was. This is one of the reasons for the confused messages coming out of the campaigns before the vote. Brexit did NOT align to party politics and you can see from the demographics that the largest chunk of the Brexiteer vote was in the Labour areas in the north of England.
There were only 2 small political parties that were United on Brexit; the UKIP (Pro-Brexit) and the Lib-Dems (Pro-Remain). The Tories and Labour were completely divided on it - and to underline this we had a Remainer Tory PM (Cameron) and a Brexiteer Labour leader (Corbyn).
Brexit has never been socialism vs capitalism left vs right. It transcends those traditional political ethics.
 
bcfcredandwhite said:
and to underline this we had a Remainer Tory PM (Cameron) and a Brexiteer Labour leader (Corbyn).
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Do not align to this way of thinking rw …
ACCEPTING THAT Cameron was never going to see it through … [ said he was standing down a a couple years after the vote either way ] Corbyn had to BE the Jimmy opposite, THATS HOW LABOUR WORKS! [ OPPOSITION]
Had the vote gone remain Cameron would still have stepped down and Corbyn would be out on a limb ..further than he was when we voted leave … he never ever gave a inkling on what we should do or …. instead sat on the fence like a tin can at a fair being shot at every Weds.....
UKIP was there for 1 purpose drive the bus … it was a tremendous success but had no place to go after reaching the last stop on the route …. lib dems were totally up to their necks in total s*** got left with nothing to shout about except stupid things … from a rising party the last election the people slayed them ……
 
The EU are up in arms about the AZ vaccine roll out. The EU haven't even authorised it yet, apparently due on the 29th.
Nevertheless they're moaning - more like a smokescreen for their inept bureaucracy.

2 weeks ago the BBC 'Question Time' reckoned we'd still be far ahead with the roll out if we'd remained in the EU.
The Telegraph said last week 'thank goodness the UK has left the EU' in this roll out. We'd be basically hamstrung.

BBC or the Torygraph?
I know which one I believe and thank the Lord I'll receive my jab in the next 2 weeks.
 
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The Guardian
R&W, this just suits your narrative.

This awful newspaper is continually Anti-UK and promotes folk like Corbyn and the far left.
Of course it's going to be bumpy, it suits the EU to highlight every issue where problems arise. The last thing the fat cats in Brussels want is their break up - which might start with Frexit.

Give it a while, you can look from Gib and by the way you may want to thank the UK for keeping the UK from the clutches of Spain and the EU. Or will you go against 96% of your 'fellow' inhabitants.

I mentioned both views the biased BBC and equally biased Telegraph.
In the interests of fairness can you do the same.
 
Talking of the EU.........In terms of the various vaccine approvals within the EU, I understand that the individual countries could vet and approve the vaccines as they see fit, but nearly all are deferring to the central committee to continually drag their feet while people die. We're well out of the EU in my humble opinion.

And when Knickerless Virgin finally gets her way for a second referendum on Scottish independence, which will probably go her way if put to the vote, we should charge any Scottish lorries using the Channel Tunnel (in England) £1m per trip as payback.
 
This awful newspaper is continually Anti-UK and promotes folk like Corbyn and the far left.
Of course it's going to be bumpy, it suits the EU to highlight every issue where problems arise. The last thing the fat cats in Brussels want is their break up - which might start with Frexit.
That's why I started my post with the comment 'Ok it's the Guardian.......', knowing that simply the name of the source would be a trigger for automatic dismissal by some on here. There are some interesting facts in there though - especially about the 'hidden' VAT costs. Perhaps all the Brexiteers should club together and pay it..?!!!!!! Joking of course.

Give it a while, you can look from Gib and by the way you may want to thank the UK for keeping the UK from the clutches of Spain and the EU. Or will you go against 96% of your 'fellow' inhabitants.
96% of Gibraltar residents voted Remain - as did I - not sure what your point is here. How will I be 'going against them' seeing as I voted the same way? Anyway it's in the past - there's no going back and we just have to pick up the pieces and try to move on as best we can with the situation that has been forced upon us. Unlike the Scots, the Gibraltarians are far less likely to try and 'divorce' the UK to re-enter the EU, although sympathy for that approach will probably have increased slightly since Brexit. They are VERY pro-UK.

I mentioned both views the biased BBC and equally biased Telegraph.
In the interests of fairness can you do the same
I'm sure this is the first time ever on this subject I've quoted The Guardian - I hardly ever read it.
For info my regular daily reads are The Mail (including the MoS), Gibraltar Chronicle, the BBC and Sky (plus the Swindon Evening Advertiser - local rag). I think that's quite balanced sources(?) I only become aware of articles from other sources when they pop up on my phone, like this one did yesterday, as my phone seems to know what I've been reading about and performs searches on my behalf.

Finally, as I've said before and during the campaign; I never liked the EU much - there are some good things (being able to live there was good for me, as I planned to retire to Spain). Free trade was good, co-operation on fighting crime was good. But there were also bad things too; the unelected dictators telling us what to do, the stupid rules and endless bureaucracy, the interference in our justice system - all these things annoyed me just the same as it does you. However, the reason I voted Remain and still stand by my vote (although irrelevant now), is that at the time I concluded that a 'leap of faith' into the unknown, with no preparation or precedence, was NOT worth it, in order to try and fix these things, because we were so intertwined with the EU in almost every respect that the divorce would be too painful and not worth the outcome.
The calibre of the people negotiating Brexit on our behalf didn't fill me with confidence either; I'm not a great fan of Margaret Thatcher, but she was a master on the international stage and would have made a far better job of Brexit than the shower of ****e that are currently running the country.
At the moment I firmly believe that I'm being proved right, sadly, but I'm hoping things will change and Brexit will ultimately be a good thing.

Genuine request, not a WUM: Please state ONE thing that has improved since Brexit - AS A DIRECT RESULT of Brexit. I honestly can't think of one thing.

Edit: I HAVE finally thought of one thing; The deal we struck with Japan is better than the existing EU deal with Japan, because it includes a 0% import tax on blue cheese.
Blue cheese exports from the EU to Japan will be subjected to an import levy, but exports from the UK will not.
 
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bcfcredandwhite said:
Genuine request, not a WUM: Please state ONE thing that has improved since Brexit - AS A DIRECT RESULT of Brexit. I honestly can't think of one thing.
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The UK has been able to authorise the use of (import ) anti covid vaccines faster than the EU. The EU has YET to authorise a vaccine that has been used to protect millions of Britons.

EU threatens to impose export controls on Covid vaccines | The Independent

Note the EU is disgustingly attempting to interfere into the importation of vaccines into non EU Countries.
 
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What Clifton said, please don't come back with the BBC and Question Time.

'Genuine request etc'
I feel better, and that's more than enough.
Arguments for and against - we could go on forever.
For me it's a gut thing, I look at Brussels and believe it a huge gravy train and we pay £9Billion annually for their privilege. I just don't trust them. Sorry, I know it's bu++ered your plans.

R&W Can't help it mate.
 
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Redprintt said:
What Clifton said, please don't come back with the BBC and Question Time.

'Genuine request etc'
I feel better, and that's more than enough.
Arguments for and against - we could go on forever.
For me it's a gut thing, I look at Brussels and believe it a huge gravy train and we pay £9Billion annually for their privilege. I just don't trust them. Sorry, I know it's bu++ered your plans.

R&W Can't help it mate.
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You're entitled to your opinions RP, and more people (who bothered to get off their arse and vote) agreed with you than me.
As for my plans; I'm working to get my Gibraltar citizenship ASAP (it takes 3 years). My flat purchase over there completed last Friday :) The current Brexit proposal between Gib and Spain is to have an open land border with free movement for Spanish and Gibraltese citizens, so I may realise my dreams after all. I'm certainly not giving up.
My disappointment and worry won't change things - some might say complaining about Brexit now is pointless because its in the past, and I suppose it is, but for me it's akin to saying that an unwanted amputation is in the past - it IS in the past, but it still hurts, scars and disables!
 
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bcfcredandwhite said:
You're entitled to your opinions RP, and more people (who bothered to get off their arse and vote) !
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And those people live in a democracy where they will be able to vote out those who make poor decisions, just like the Commissioners who run the EU delaying by months life saving vaccinations can be voted out .... doh!

You posted a link where the picture was of a post Brexit UK that is anti business.

The EU is not only interfering in the legal business of drug companies (anti business), it is delaying attempts to save lives.
 
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Last June the UK opted out of joining the EU pan-European buying programme. Thank goodness.
Back then 3 academics wrote to the Guardian complaining that Britain's 'isolationist ideology' would mean us suffering unnecessary delays to our vaccination programme.
How ridiculous do they seem now.
 
Cliftonville said:
And those people live in a democracy where they will be able to vote out those who make poor decisions, just like the Commissioners who run the EU delaying by months life saving vaccinations can be voted out .... doh!

You posted a link where the picture was of a post Brexit UK that is anti business.

The EU is not only interfering in the legal business of drug companies (anti business), it is delaying attempts to save lives.
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I didn't read that article as the UK itself being anti-business at all, just ignorant, incompetent and unprepared, as usual.
I interpreted it as the architectures and implementers of Brexit (ie the government) either underestimating, or failing to understand, the real consequences that Brexit would have to the business communities. Businesses were clearly not fore-warned about the need to pay VAT in advance. WHY? We have seen all these ads on the TV telling businesses to get ready and prepare for Brexit 'Check, Prepare, Go', or something like that (the 3 buzzword logos that the government likes these days), but, as with most things to do with this utter shambles, there is no information available telling them exactly WHAT to check, HOW to prepare or WHERE to go!!!
Our government has taken our country into the unknowns of Brexit as instructed by 52% of the voters, so its their responsibility as our government to ensure that businesses go into the new trading world armed and prepared for the new knowledge, bureaucracy and paperwork they need in order to run their businesses effectively when dealing with the EU - our biggest trading partner.
Businesses are finding these challenges out for themselves the hard way by trial and (much) error, when they should have been clearly forewarned and forearmed beforehand so they could prepare.

As for the vaccine supply fiasco - it would seem from various press reports that the EU is behaving outrageously by blocking deliveries to the UK.
Without excusing that behaviour at all (if true), it does underline how helpless and dependant on the EU we are and how much tighter they control our supply chains than they did when we were a member, hence my earlier comment 'We think we’ve escaped the control of the EU? Have we fk. They now have more power than ever before over us and there is NOTHING we can do about it.'
I didn't realise that my comment would be proved true so quickly though........
 
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bcfcredandwhite said:
I didn't read that article as the UK itself being anti-business at all, just ignorant, incompetent and unprepared, as usual.
I interpreted it as the architectures and implementers of Brexit (ie the government) either underestimating, or failing to understand, the real consequences that Brexit would have to the business communities. Businesses were clearly not fore-warned about the need to pay VAT in advance. WHY? We have seen all these ads on the TV telling businesses to get ready and prepare for Brexit 'Check, Prepare, Go', or something like that (the 3 buzzword logos that the government likes these days), but, as with most things to do with this utter shambles, there is no information available telling them exactly WHAT they need to do to check, HOW to prepare or WHERE to go!!!
Our government has taken our country into the unknowns of Brexit as instructed by 52% of the voters, so its their responsibility as our government to ensure that businesses go into the new trading world armed and prepared for the new knowledge, bureaucracy and paperwork they need in order to run their businesses effectively when dealing with the EU - our biggest trading partner.
Businesses are finding these challenges out for themselves the hard way by trial and (much) error, when they should have been clearly forewarned and forearmed beforehand so they could prepare.

As for the vaccine supply fiasco - it would seem from various press reports that the EU is behaving outrageously by blocking deliveries to the UK.
Without excusing that behaviour at all (if true), it does underline how helpless and dependant on the EU we are and how much tighter they control our supply chains than they did when we were a member, hence my earlier comment 'We think we’ve escaped the control of the EU? Have we fk. They now have more power than ever before over us and there is NOTHING we can do about it.'
I didn't realise that my comment would be proved true so quickly though........
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It would seem from various press reports that the EU is behaving outrageously by blocking deliveries to the UK = Ignorant, incompetent and unprepared, as usual.

We have vaccines. The UK free of the EU's dogma is ahead of the curve. That free and open will attract business to the UK.
 
Cliftonville said:
It would seem from various press reports that the EU is behaving outrageously by blocking deliveries to the UK = Ignorant, incompetent and unprepared, as usual.

We have vaccines. The UK free of the EU's dogma is ahead of the curve. That free and open will attract business to the UK.
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So, why do we depend on them so much for our supplies? - we moan about them but then rely on them for imports, whether food, machinery components or vaccines - and then complain when they are delayed.
We should have manufactured the vaccine here, then it would be irrelevant.

EDIT - some more info and clarification (for me, not aimed at anyone else)

- The AstraZeneka (Oxford) vaccine is coming to the UK unrestricted - for now.
- The Pfizer (German) vaccine MIGHT SOON be export-restricted (currently under consideration), to enable the EU vaccination programme to catch up (supplies bound for the UK and other non-EU countries are being re-routed to EU member states)

The danger for the UK IMHO, is that the EU are expected to approve the Oxford vaccine for use by the end of this month. Once approved, they may try and do the same with that one too, as its manufactured in the EU (Belgium and Holland).

Again, it shows how vulnerable we are.

Coronavirus: AstraZeneca defends EU vaccine rollout plan - BBC News
 
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bcfcredandwhite said:
So, why do we depend on them so much for our supplies? - we moan about them but then rely on them for imports, whether food, machinery components or vaccines - and then complain when they are delayed.
We should have manufactured the vaccine here, then it would be irrelevant.

EDIT - some more info and clarification (for me, not aimed at anyone else)

- The AstraZeneka (Oxford) vaccine is coming to the UK unrestricted - for now.
- The Pfizer (German) vaccine MIGHT SOON be export-restricted (currently under consideration), to enable the EU vaccination programme to catch up (supplies bound for the UK and other non-EU countries are being re-routed to EU member states)

The danger for the UK IMHO, is that the EU are expected to approve the Oxford vaccine for use by the end of this month. Once approved, they may try and do the same with that one too, as its manufactured in the EU (Belgium and Holland).

Again, it shows how vulnerable we are.

Coronavirus: AstraZeneca defends EU vaccine rollout plan - BBC News
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The UK is vaccinating its populace before and faster than the EU. Being free of the EU is a strength. We can now purchase and manufacture free of its restrictions.

The UK manufacturing base shrank massively while a member of the EU. Major economies outside of the EU manufacturing bases do not perform as badly as the UK's. Being free of the EU creates possibility ...
 
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Cliftonville said:
The UK is vaccinating its populace before and faster than the EU. Being free of the EU is a strength. We can now purchase and manufacture free of its restrictions.

The UK manufacturing base shrank massively while a member of the EU. Major economies outside of the EU manufacturing bases do not perform as badly as the UK's. Being free of the UK creates possibility to reverse how the UK has fared in the EU.
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You are correct the UK's manufacturing has shrunk considerably, but that is because we are not very good at it. Would you rather drive a car built in Longbridge or Germany
 
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