Off Topic So, what now?

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wizered said:
That is the total of people that voted for the Conservative and Labour party in the general election that both had leavve in their manifesto, in fact it was 80% plus.
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I would like to see the evidence for this. I didn’t think it was in the Labour manifesto and all that twat Cameron offered was a referendum, I don’t think they had “leave” in their manifesto. Both parties offered to honour it but neither had it as a policy and certainly not at the previous election.
A Labour manifesto today would be an interesting read for sure.
 
stick said:
I would like to see the evidence for this. I didn’t think it was in the Labour manifesto and all that twat Cameron offered was a referendum, I don’t think they had “leave” in their manifesto. Both parties offered to honour it but neither had it as a policy and certainly not at the previous election.
A Labour manifesto today would be an interesting read for sure.
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He means the snap election that May called, and he's technically right, Labour and Tories both did pledge to honour the result.
 
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BCFCRob said:
He means the snap election that May called, and he's technically right, Labour and Tories both did pledge to honour the result.
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That’s just a pledge to honour the referendum. It was NEVER in either parties policy to leave the EU.

Seems to me that the only person in Parliament doing their best to honour the referendum vote is the PM.
 
'24 FOR THE MANY NOT THE FEW NEGOTIATING BREXIT Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.'

This is the first paragraph of the Labour Manifesto with regard Brexit and it specifically states accept the result not honour..
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf
 
wizered said:
'24 FOR THE MANY NOT THE FEW NEGOTIATING BREXIT Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.'

This is the first paragraph of the Labour Manifesto with regard Brexit and it specifically states accept the result not honour..
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf
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Why then are the Labour Party whipping their MPs to vote for a Norway deal. That’s not what the majority voted for at the referendum.
 
stick said:
Why then are the Labour Party whipping their MPs to vote for a Norway deal. That’s not what the majority voted for at the referendum.
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I am only quoting what they promised and printed, I have no idea why they break their promises and their words.
 
wizered said:
'24 FOR THE MANY NOT THE FEW NEGOTIATING BREXIT Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.'

This is the first paragraph of the Labour Manifesto with regard Brexit and it specifically states accept the result not honour..
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf
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Now Wiz this is not meant to increase your rage :) but personally I would interpret putting the national interest first and prioritising jobs and living standards as staying in the EU.....or maybe a Norway style deal. While accepting others would interpret it differently
 
raver said:
Now Wiz this is not meant to increase your rage :) but personally I would interpret putting the national interest first and prioritising jobs and living standards as staying in the EU.....or maybe a Norway style deal. While accepting others would interpret it differently
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It's Labour that twists words, the majority voted leave and Labour explicitly said it accepted the referendum result, which was leave, I have no rage to increase mate, I believe I am one of the most peaceful characters you would likely meet.:emoticon-0105-wink:
 
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wizered said:
It's Labour that twists words, the majority voted leave and Labour explicitly said it accepted the referendum result, which was leave, I have no rage to increase mate, I believe I am one of the most peaceful characters you would likely meet.:emoticon-0105-wink:
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I think it just shows that politicians can twist words as you say if they want to. For the record I have never ( nor likely to ever ) voted Labour. I have voted tory at every election since 1979 apart for the last one, where I threw my vote away for the liberal democrats because of my objection to Brexit. My MP is Rees Mogg, and whilst I disagree with his stance on Brexit I quite like him. I did write to him telling him what a mess the govt were making of it and I got a personal reply.
 
There will be a number of different votes over the coming week on various proposals for various deals.
My prediction is that the Boris’s and the Gove’s and the Ian Duncan Smiths will form an unlikely alliance with the Militant Remain MPs to vote against all proposals.
The Remainers in a hope that this could result in a second referendum - which they might win.
The ‘Hard’ Brexiteers in a hope that we give up on a deal and ‘crash out’.
Of course, there’s Boris - who wants to be Prime Minister and doesn’t care about Brexit at all - he has openly stated that he was a Remainer but championed Brexit to fk Cameron.
Interesting times.
If the hardliners on both sides don’t give in then we will face either a no-deal Brexit on 12th May, a General Election, or a second referendum.
 
raver said:
I think it just shows that politicians can twist words as you say if they want to. For the record I have never ( nor likely to ever ) voted Labour. I have voted tory at every election since 1979 apart for the last one, where I threw my vote away for the liberal democrats because of my objection to Brexit. My MP is Rees Mogg, and whilst I disagree with his stance on Brexit I quite like him. I did write to him telling him what a mess the govt were making of it and I got a personal reply.
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I don’t know Rees-Mogg personally, but from what I read in the press I can’t stand him or his self-interested privileged views.
My God i would struggle if he - or Boris took over as Tory leader - in a GE I’d have to choose between the equivalent of a tapeworm (Corbyn) or a louse (Rees-Mogg or Boris)
British politics has never sunk so low.
 
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bcfcredandwhite said:
I don’t know Rees-Mogg personally, but from what I read in the press I can’t stand him or his self-interested privileged views.
My God i would struggle if he - or Boris took over as Tory leader - in a GE I’d have to choose between the equivalent of a tapeworm (Corbyn) or a louse (Rees-Mogg or Boris)
British politics has never sunk so low.
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He wouldn't be my choice either, whilst I don't agree with him I can respect him standing up for his beliefs even if they are not the same as my own. Its a shame most of our political class can't do the same
 
bcfcredandwhite said:
There will be a number of different votes over the coming week on various proposals for various deals.
My prediction is that the Boris’s and the Gove’s and the Ian Duncan Smiths will form an unlikely alliance with the Militant Remain MPs to vote against all proposals.
The Remainers in a hope that this could result in a second referendum - which they might win.
The ‘Hard’ Brexiteers in a hope that we give up on a deal and ‘crash out’.
Of course, there’s Boris - who wants to be Prime Minister and doesn’t care about Brexit at all - he has openly stated that he was a Remainer but championed Brexit to fk Cameron.
Interesting times.
If the hardliners on both sides don’t give in then we will face either a no-deal Brexit on 12th May, a General Election, or a second referendum.
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One way or another I think A50 will be revoked, MP’s won’t allow a no deal Brexit, we will be left with some kind of ‘soft’ Brexit or no Brexit , this will then be put back to the public , so essentially, stay in the EU in all but name, having to pay for the privelage, not be able to control immigration or do deals with other countries, whilst having no say in the running of the EU, (even the hardest of Brexiteers wouldn’t want that scenario ) , or stay as we are , the result will be stay as we are .
So as Wiz put it Brexit will be stolen from all those people that in good conscience, thinking it to be a once in a lifetime vote , voted OUT.
 
Just out of interest, because I'm not even sure myself. From you guys, what is your idea of a 'good deal'?

And you're not allowed to answer saying that you'd be happy with no deal :emoticon-0105-wink:. Just, what does a good deal look like? I.e. do we still have access to the single market/customs union? Do we have freedom of movement? How is the Irish border treated? What deal could you back?
 
BCFCRob said:
Just out of interest, because I'm not even sure myself. From you guys, what is your idea of a 'good deal'?

And you're not allowed to answer saying that you'd be happy with no deal :emoticon-0105-wink:. Just, what does a good deal look like? I.e. do we still have access to the single market/customs union? Do we have freedom of movement? How is the Irish border treated? What deal could you back?
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For me first and foremost to honour the referendum vote , we leave, no ambiguity to that it’s what was voted for.

We then negotiate with the EU , the best terms possible, as it’s in all our interests to do so. To avoid the period that would be difficult for both us and the EU whilst negotiating the new deal we have a period whereby the status quo is maintained.

All through the process they have dictated terms , they wouldn’t discuss the framework to leave before A50 invoked , now they won’t discuss in detail the terms until the framework is agreed.

The main reason we are in the mess we are right now is because at the moment we have options, if we agree the framework they have set out we won’t.

At present we can revoke A50, we can leave without a deal, (I know you don’t think that’s possible, but none the less it is an option), or we can have any one of many various soft options. If we agree to the May deal we give up many of our options and potentially could be tied in against our will.
 
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