Silva bid rejected..

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oldfrenchhorn said:
Sam Allardyce is back under consideration for the Everton job. Seems as if they know they have to act quickly after the recent run of results.
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Lets hope they do not try with another stupid offer for Silva again, they seem to be getting desperate so anything could happen. With the run of games coming up over the next few weeks it would be the worse possible time to lose Silva now.
 
colognehornet said:
To be honest I cannot understand why Everton are being so one tracked on this - Silva has no track record as such, and won't have until he has finished at least one season in either the Prem. or another top league with the same club - 2 seasons would be better. There are so many other managers out there who stand out more than Silva does - I would have thought that Jokanovic would have been a bigger target.
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Have to disagree Cologne.

Silva is flavour of the week and to be honest, it's not so much the what has he done in the PL but he has turned a terrible outfit in Hull and one that looked like relegation candidates last year (under mazarri) into not just solid outfits, but ones who try to play football and with high energy.

You can see the way he has the whole team working together and who well drilled you are. Also he has a good track record of not spending huge amounts of money and getting the best out of teams (see estoril, a short stint at lisbon and olympiakos). He is what you would call passing the eye test of management.

The fact you compare him to Jokanovic when saying silva has no track record is a very bad comparisson as he Jokanovic doesn't even have a track record in the PL and is currently struggling at Fulham (you'd expect them to have been higher).

To be honest though, i don't see many managers being available that are an improvement on Silva (who is young and new and appears to be very similar to Pochettino)

Tuchel, Ancelotti are all out of range from Everton
 
BobbyD said:
Have to disagree Cologne.

Silva is flavour of the week and to be honest, it's not so much the what has he done in the PL but he has turned a terrible outfit in Hull and one that looked like relegation candidates last year (under mazarri) into not just solid outfits, but ones who try to play football and with high energy.

You can see the way he has the whole team working together and who well drilled you are. Also he has a good track record of not spending huge amounts of money and getting the best out of teams (see estoril, a short stint at lisbon and olympiakos). He is what you would call passing the eye test of management.

The fact you compare him to Jokanovic when saying silva has no track record is a very bad comparisson as he Jokanovic doesn't even have a track record in the PL and is currently struggling at Fulham (you'd expect them to have been higher).

To be honest though, i don't see many managers being available that are an improvement on Silva (who is young and new and appears to be very similar to Pochettino)

Tuchel, Ancelotti are all out of range from Everton
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Obviously we assess managers according to different criteria Bodbo. Jokanovic is the only manager since the Pozzos came along who improved us over an entire season - and brought us to a peak at exactly the right time. It remains to be seen if Silva can do the same. All I am saying is that the signs are promising but I cannot say that Silva is the full article yet. For a short term fix at Everton he could be ideal, but there are so many other 'proven' managers out there - such as Martin o' Neill who fit the bill better.
 
colognehornet said:
Obviously we assess managers according to different criteria Bodbo. Jokanovic is the only manager since the Pozzos came along who improved us over an entire season - and brought us to a peak at exactly the right time. It remains to be seen if Silva can do the same. All I am saying is that the signs are promising but I cannot say that Silva is the full article yet. For a short term fix at Everton he could be ideal, but there are so many other 'proven' managers out there - such as Martin o' Neill who fit the bill better.
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Oh don't get me wrong. Jokanovic was great for you guys and did brilliantly with your squad. I'm not taking away what he has done for you

However, how other clubs assess managers and decide to hire one especially PL managers is typically how well they have done in one of the big leagues. Jokanovic hasn't done it in La Liga, Ligue 1, PL, Serie A or Bundesliga so most clubs will ignore what he did for Watford. Likewise he is not having the best of times in the championship. In the eyes of the top clubs, he has no track record of top league football which is what you said Silva lacked.
 
BobbyD said:
Oh don't get me wrong. Jokanovic was great for you guys and did brilliantly with your squad. I'm not taking away what he has done for you

However, how other clubs assess managers and decide to hire one especially PL managers is typically how well they have done in one of the big leagues. Jokanovic hasn't done it in La Liga, Ligue 1, PL, Serie A or Bundesliga so most clubs will ignore what he did for Watford. Likewise he is not having the best of times in the championship. In the eyes of the top clubs, he has no track record of top league football which is what you said Silva lacked.
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It may be that English football is suffering from an inferiority complex if the general consensus is that success in the Championship is not a better preparation for the Premiership than success abroad. I am not criticizing Silva in any way, just saying that I will judge him over an entire season. We have had a number of managers who 'started well' but lost the thread in the second half of the season. I am not downgrading his achievements - but there are only really 3 clubs in Portugal and so winning anything at Sporting Lisbon is, to an extent, to be expected. The same thing applies to Piraeus who are the third biggest club in Greece. A good Championship manager would fit the bill, because you should not delude yourself in thinking that the 'middle' of the Premiership is any better than the top end of the Championship.
 
colognehornet said:
It may be that English football is suffering from an inferiority complex if the general consensus is that success in the Championship is not a better preparation for the Premiership than success abroad. I am not criticizing Silva in any way, just saying that I will judge him over an entire season. We have had a number of managers who 'started well' but lost the thread in the second half of the season. I am not downgrading his achievements - but there are only really 3 clubs in Portugal and so winning anything at Sporting Lisbon is, to an extent, to be expected. The same thing applies to Piraeus who are the third biggest club in Greece. A good Championship manager would fit the bill, because you should not delude yourself in thinking that the 'middle' of the Premiership is any better than the top end of the Championship.
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English football does have an inferiority complex about it. Also managers are generally judged on their last appointment. Everyone would like more young managers in the championship to get an opportunity but it seems that the only way they will get a chance in the PL is to get their team promoted (jokanovic didn't even get that)

Lisbons part of the big three but they've not really won much. They won the league/cup double in 99 and 01 but apart from that, they've only won 3 cups. So best case is 2 leagues 5 cups in 18 years or worse case you mark it as 3 cups in 15 years. or 2 leagues and 6 cups in 34 years.
 
BobbyD said:
English football does have an inferiority complex about it. Also managers are generally judged on their last appointment. Everyone would like more young managers in the championship to get an opportunity but it seems that the only way they will get a chance in the PL is to get their team promoted (jokanovic didn't even get that)

Lisbons part of the big three but they've not really won much. They won the league/cup double in 99 and 01 but apart from that, they've only won 3 cups. So best case is 2 leagues 5 cups in 18 years or worse case you mark it as 3 cups in 15 years. or 2 leagues and 6 cups in 34 years.
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Hopefully things may change as regard to British managers. I feel it is a question of 'when' rather than 'if' Steven Gerrard takes over the reigns at Anfield - Klopp apparently wants to hand over to him at some stage. Any other candidates - Ryan Giggs at United one day ? The problem is also one of ownership - as long as Arab/American/Russian millionaires can buy up clubs at a whim this will not change.
I am all for a situation such as in the Bundesliga where no one individual can own more than 49% of shares - the rest remain the property of the club members.
 
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colognehornet said:
Obviously we assess managers according to different criteria Bodbo. Jokanovic is the only manager since the Pozzos came along who improved us over an entire season - and brought us to a peak at exactly the right time. It remains to be seen if Silva can do the same. All I am saying is that the signs are promising but I cannot say that Silva is the full article yet. For a short term fix at Everton he could be ideal, but there are so many other 'proven' managers out there - such as Martin o' Neill who fit the bill better.
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A point of order. Whoever Bobby D is, (and from his posts he isn't a WFC supporter) he isn't Bodbo. Bodbo c'est moi c'nest pas !
Anyway, it's right that we should judge MS over a longer period than 13 games, and acknowledge that Mazzarri for all that he had no empathy with fans, (for which in truth is hardly likely to have been a contractual requirement) had terrible luck with injuries to Pereyra AND his replacement . I suspect though he knew that the Pozzo's weren't satisfied, hence he lost interest. The rest is well documented by the teams's slide down the table.
It's also true that MS has got 3 excellent newcomers to improve the team, namely Femenia, richarlison and , it would seem, Zeegalaar - although 2 games is a bit like Nyom I guess. But what he has also done , which I think does indicate we have a real gem of a head coach, is get Kabasele & Doucoure to be way way better than they appeared to be last year, bring hughes along really carefully so he is really effective, and get the team to play with spirit and a sense of fun as well as confidence. We haven't seen the best of gray yet - which is disappointing, he looks a bit nervous in front of goal.
We do seem to be capable of giving chances to other teams ( disastrous at Everton, inconsequential vs WHU & noocassel) but all in all he's made us into a good outfit worth watching and one which feels like it's going places. I read somewhere that under MS's system, once without the ball we set ourselves up to block passes, rathert han mark players. This means hat when we get the ball back we are in better attacking positions as we are in space. The downside is that if the passes get through we are not marking the opposition. It's a bit too technical for me, but sounds interesting and perhaps indicates where coaching has got to!
Whatever, enjoy the ride. Who wouldn't want to be a hornet just now!!
 
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J T Bodbo said:
A point of order. Whoever Bobby D is, (and from his posts he isn't a WFC supporter) he isn't Bodbo. Bodbo c'est moi c'nest pas !
Anyway, it's right that we should judge MS over a longer period than 13 games, and acknowledge that Mazzarri for all that he had no empathy with fans, (for which in truth is hardly likely to have been a contractual requirement) had terrible luck with injuries to Pereyra AND his replacement . I suspect though he knew that the Pozzo's weren't satisfied, hence he lost interest. The rest is well documented by the teams's slide down the table.
It's also true that MS has got 3 excellent newcomers to improve the team, namely Femenia, richarlison and , it would seem, Zeegalaar - although 2 games is a bit like Nyom I guess. But what he has also done , which I think does indicate we have a real gem of a head coach, is get Kabasele & Doucoure to be way way better than they appeared to be last year, bring hughes along really carefully so he is really effective, and get the team to play with spirit and a sense of fun as well as confidence. We haven't seen the best of gray yet - which is disappointing, he looks a bit nervous in front of goal.
We do seem to be capable of giving chances to other teams ( disastrous at Everton, inconsequential vs WHU & noocassel) but all in all he's made us into a good outfit worth watching and one which feels like it's going places. I read somewhere that under MS's system, once without the ball we set ourselves up to block passes, rathert han mark players. This means hat when we get the ball back we are in better attacking positions as we are in space. The downside is that if the passes get through we are not marking the opposition. It's a bit too technical for me, but sounds interesting and perhaps indicates where coaching has got to!
Whatever, enjoy the ride. Who wouldn't want to be a hornet just now!!
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Apologies for the mistaken identity Bodbo ! I meant, of course, my replies as being for Bobby D - who is, as you say, not a hornet, having not seen the light yet !
 
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Just a comment about the marking space thing, we are not the only team doing this and MOTD2 highlighted Burnley where they push the player and ball into the positions they want them, blocking off the pass.
 
He refers to his time with England being in the Atlantic Ocean and water under the bridge - I didn't know that there was a bridge over the Atlantic. It would be a phenomenal piece of engineering.
 
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Jsybarry said:
He refers to his time with England being in the Atlantic Ocean and water under the bridge - I didn't know that there was a bridge over the Atlantic. It would be a phenomenal piece of engineering.
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There is - and has been since Scottish engineer Robert Mylne built it in 1793. It connects the Isle of Seil to the Scottish mainland near Oban and spans an inlet of the Atlantic. As you imply, Scots are phenomenal...:)

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