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billyvegas said:
Like your holier than thou comment wasn’t. Nice.

At no point did I dig, I suggested you maybe seem a certain way, superfan in this instance but didn’t say it was fact.

A little in the way you kept asking to Schad the other day, you overlook possible relevant part of what I have said to score an easy point. Well done you :emoticon-0148-yes:

I still don’t believe anyone never utters a negative word, moan or gasp when watching a game though.

Anyhow, we just signed a player and I apologise for having a different way of expressing emotions :emoticon-0139-bow:
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Have a good day mate.
 
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Beddytare said:
I think that was the point being made earlier about people shouting at the player when he's on the field and heavily criticising him.
Do people really think that players will respond positively to that? From my own experience I would say no. Players know when they have made a mistake they really don't need people in the crowd to tell them. I would suggest we should encourage them to make up for their mistake and often they do. Shouting at players and calling them names during a game only has a negative impact.
I recently heard some calling Long a ****er when he came near to receive a throw in.......all because a few minutes earlier he didn't pass the ball to a player open in or near the box. He just didn't see the guy..........he had three opposition players around him at the time..........so yes it does happen and in my view totally unnecessary..........
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I politely disagree and it’s part of the job.
 
When I went to watch matches [yes, hard to believe but there was a time] I used to inwardly groan when a Saints player screwed up. Decades before, as a kid, I worked out that any negative outward groan I made would be drowned in the cacophony, so I just didn't bother. My emotions always tended towards the positive anyway, so I tended to make an outward response if a Saints player did something skilful or exceptional. I don't think I've ever shouted to a Saints player to improve himself [in other words] or insult him. Undoubtedly they are trying, it's just that sometimes they simply haven't been good enough. And there have been plenty of Saints players down through the years who have fitted that category. That's not their fault. That's the club trying to achieve things on a shoestring.
 
Out of interest, how does this theory work with referees? I doubt abusing them improves their performance or makes them more likely to give us decisions.
 
Libby said:
Out of interest, how does this theory work with referees? I doubt abusing them improves their performance or makes them more likely to give us decisions.
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Maybe some fans go to see the ref after the game to discuss directly with them.

Good point though, but perhaps that's ok to do it to refs, and I still dont believe that people never let out a peep of discontentment.
 
billyvegas said:
Maybe some fans go to see the ref after the game to discuss directly with them.

Good point though, but perhaps that's ok to do it to refs, and I still dont believe that people never let out a peep of discontentment.
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I think the point is....you letting out a "peep of discontentment" as someone cocks something up, your groans, sighs etc, is not the problem.
To deliberately shout to the player and call him names after the moment has passed is very unhelpful..........and should not happen. No person ever responds positively to that. As I said before encouragement is what they need not negativity.......

As for Referee's, in truth calling negative things to them doesn't help to be honest either.........luckily Referees expect a lot of that.
They can have the most perfect game but trust me there will always be something someone disagrees with..............
 
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The 'it's part of the job' comment is an interesting one. In a supermarket recently a customer kicked off because a cashier had made a mistake. The manager came and politely directed the customer to the sign indicating that there was zero tolerance towards abuse and she was eventually ejected when she refused to calm down.

It made me think. These signs have sprung up everywhere and I'm sure we tend to support them. I recall the morning of an ash cloud stopping flights a few years ago. I was due to fly out of Limoges. An English woman was screaming at a young rep from FlyBe that she had to "find a plane" as the woman needed to be in Southampton that evening. A very large gendarme told the woman that she would need to hire a car and drive, because despite her vitriol FlyBe were unable satisfy her request.

I'm with you on this one, Beddy. I'll groan as much as the next fan when a Saints player cocks up (as if!) but to then go on and scream abuse at the player is totally counter-productive. I'd be happy to make it an offence worthy of ejection, but it is now so rooted in the culture I can't see it happening. We seem to take the view that 'We've paid our money so we're entitled to hurl abuse'. So while watching a local am dram Shakespeare production,am I entitled to scream 'Oi, you with the big nose. Call yourself Shylock? You're a ****ing usless ****er.'?
 
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Beddytare said:
I think the point is....you letting out a "peep of discontentment" as someone cocks something up, your groans, sighs etc, is not the problem.
To deliberately shout to the player and call him names after the moment has passed is very unhelpful..........and should not happen. No person ever responds positively to that. As I said before encouragement is what you need not negativity.......

As for Referee's, in truth calling negative things to them doesn't help to be honest either.........luckily Referees expect a lot of that.
They can have the most perfect game but trust me there will always be something someone disagrees with..............
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I imagine the refs will turn against a team where the fans are particularly bad at berating him (or her).

I think people have the right to voice discontent, for me it all stems back to the gladiator games, and is part of sport. Some athletes are spurred on by that, others flake. For me it perhaps separates the winners from the losers - though mental agility which is essential to being at the top of any game. If people are being asked to pay huge sums of money, and there are no guidelines (other than racist acts etc) then they have the right to shout things.

I am actually pretty quiet in the main when at games, but do groan occasionally, at the ref and the players, but dont shout abuse - I can understand those that do even if I dont do it myself.
 
billyvegas said:
I imagine the refs will turn against a team where the fans are particularly bad at berating him (or her).

I think people have the right to voice discontent, for me it all stems back to the gladiator games, and is part of sport. Some athletes are spurred on by that, others flake. For me it perhaps separates the winners from the losers - though mental agility which is essential to being at the top of any game. If people are being asked to pay huge sums of money, and there are no guidelines (other than racist acts etc) then they have the right to shout things.

I am actually pretty quiet in the main when at games, but do groan occasionally, at the ref and the players, but dont shout abuse - I can understand those that do even if I dont do it myself.
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Of course people have a right to discontent.....nobody is saying they don't........It's just the timing of that discontent, shouting at players while playing the game is going to have the opposite effect that is wanted.......
There is a huge difference in moaning out loud minutes after the event and moaning after the play is over nobody is saying they dont have a right to moan just that the timing is off to keep reminding them of a cock up they have made earlier in a game...........
 
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Whether or not a little moaning at players for silly mistakes is okay is up for debate, I would say letting your frustration out is okay as long as it is done in the right way...

The sort of behaviour Beddy described whereby a fan called Shane Long a ****er for not making a particular pass, is clearly wrong. Whether in football or anywhere else, anyone that aggressively calls someone a ****er for making a small mistake is more that likely, a ****er.
 
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Beddytare said:
Of course people have a right to discontent.....nobody is saying they don't........It's just the timing of that discontent, shouting at players while playing the game is going to have the opposite effect that is wanted.......
There is a huge difference in moaning out loud minutes after the event and moaning after the play is over nobody is saying they dont have a right to moan just that the timing is off to keep reminding them of a cock up they have made earlier in a game...........
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Not necessarily always the case though, depends entirely on the person. Redmond is a good example of someone using it to positive effect.
 
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