S.A.F.C. - the future

[Smug in Boots]

I don't really agree with that, if you mean sending it to the members so they're aware before it hits the RAWA website or anywhere else, but communication could be improved. I think it needs to be on the RAWA website first (which it is currently, it goes there, they tweet it, and then they ask if someone can post it on smb, normally ghandi floss as he's the rep, but I'll often do it if he's busy). I think if you send it to all members before it goes on the website, someone will copy and paste it onto their twitter or whatever and suddenly it looks a bit of a shambles that there's a RAWA statement posted on a random twitter account before it's released.

If you just mean that any statement should be on the RAWA website and then emailed to all members at the same time I agree though. I'm not sure why the emails are fairly few and far between. Maybe there's a way to set it up so it sends them automatically when something is posted onto the website. Like i say, there's lots about RAWA that can likely be improved. Communication is certainly one part . I mean, I see smugs comment about including this forum in communication, it's poor if there's not even a reply. I'll try and post anything on here but I won't always manage and it's not exactly an ideal solution! The group is still relatively young though, maybe they need more people involved so that all queries can at least get a response. Certainly I think they should, even if it's a brief reply. If a fan is taking the time to get in touch they should hear back. I suppose the issue is that someone like me couldnt reply, because I'm not on the committee and they wouldn't want me saying something they didn't agree with, but those that are on the committee are volunteers as well so if there's a lot of emails randomly it'll be hard to get to all of them. It needs some thought tbh

"I suppose the issue is that someone like me couldn't reply, I'm not on the committee and ...

... they wouldn't want me saying something they didn't agree with."

Now you know how I feel

 

[scott934]

There's now an attempt on RTG to make this an 'us and them' situation as was done with the takeover.

In that case most on here were saying the takeover was happening ...

... over there it generally became the opposite partly because of the 'us and them' nonsense.

I'd remind Scott934 and @6inarow that there are people on RTG who disagree with you.

There are also RAWA members, on both forums and social media, who disagree with you.

People are entitled to their opinion just as you are.

No tag?

My whole point was surprise at how differently the narrative of this statement has been taken on here than how I read it. My opinion is my own, not trying to speak for RTG, so should be absolutely no need for an "us and them". Indeed there is an even split on RTG, quite a few read it similarly to yourself, but it's not as one sided as on here imo.

 

[Smug in Boots]

No tag? (Sorry, not intentional, as your avatar is different I didn't pick up you were the same poster.)


My whole point was surprise at how differently the narrative of this statement has been taken on here than how I read it. My opinion is my own, not trying to speak for RTG, so should be absolutely no need for an "us and them". Indeed there is an even split on RTG, quite a few read it similarly to yourself, but it's not as one sided as on here imo.

Cheers.

I've seen the debate over there and it's become very personal, no surprise, and insults are being thrown around.

People who are voicing concerns are being told they're just sitting on their arses, bowing down to the owners, etc.

I can see why that puts people off posting and encourages the mob mentality the forum has become.

I've asked various questions, of RAWA, which aren't being answered.

As just a few examples why do they claim to be the voice of all Sunderland supporters, on their website ...

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... then always deny that when challenged.

Also, if the statement, was intended for Louis-Dreyfus, has it been sent to him or the club - surely you must want to know.

If it hasn't are they expecting him to be logging on from Geneva?

Lastly, why, before the EFL has ratified the new owner/chairman was it felt necessary to publicly ask for a meeting?

 

[Sandy Camel]

This isn’t about Hunter it’s about the mag rag he works for. Despite all of the evidence against the Saudis, the ****ing vermin supported their proposed takeover and backed it fully. Sunderland get taken over and it’s questions, questions questions. Were they asking questions about the murderous regime? No the wealth had them gushing over it, they are prostitutes who can be bought. They are obviously biased and controlling the north east sporting media. It ****ing stinks man

Ronnie Gill rattled to **** by the KLD takeover and Hunter totally gutted. I laugh at the delusional mag ****ers knowing they have Fat Mike as their benign overlord. Long may he keep control.

 

[scott934]

Cheers.

I've seen the debate over there and it's become very personal, no surprise, and insults are being thrown around.

People who are voicing concerns are being told they're just sitting on their arses, bowing down to the owners, etc.

I can see why that puts people off posting and encourages the mob mentality the forum has become.

I've asked various questions, of RAWA, which aren't being answered.

As just a few examples why do they claim to be the voice of all Sunderland supporters, on their website ...

... then always deny that when challenged.

Also, if the statement, was intended for Louis-Dreyfus, has it been sent to him or the club - surely you must want to know.

If it hasn't are they expecting him to be logging on from Geneva?

Lastly, why, before the EFL has ratified the new owner/chairman was it felt necessary to publicly ask for a meeting?

I think the difference between RAWA and the likes of WMS, ALS, RR is that they are intended as a voice of the fans to the club, ideally the club will be ran well and the biggest concern will be stuff like catering, away fans location etc. So they are capable of being the voice of any fan but obviously can't speak for everyone's opinion.

I have no idea who the statement was intended for, seems to be just a statement welcoming KLD to the club to me. But it has clearly been a mistake because even though I think it's fine it has caused pretty daft disagreements, they should have literally just said 'welcome to the club, we're all excited to support you.'

Don't think they asked for a meeting, more that they hope to meet with him, it's entirely possible he'll leave it to Speakman/Rodwell. Most seem to accept that the EFL test should cause KLD no problems, I've certainly assumed that it's done!

 

[Smug in Boots]

I think the difference between RAWA and the likes of WMS, ALS, RR is that they are intended as a voice of the fans to the club, ideally the club will be ran well and the biggest concern will be stuff like catering, away fans location etc. So they are capable of being the voice of any fan but obviously can't speak for everyone's opinion.

I have no idea who the statement was intended for, seems to be just a statement welcoming KLD to the club to me. But it has clearly been a mistake because even though I think it's fine it has caused pretty daft disagreements, they should have literally just said 'welcome to the club, we're all excited to support you.'

Don't think they asked for a meeting, more that they hope to meet with him, it's entirely possible he'll leave it to Speakman/Rodwell. Most seem to accept that the EFL test should cause KLD no problems, I've certainly assumed that it's done!

And that's basically what everyone is saying mate, you and I included.

Imagine how you'd feel if ALS had published that statement, or the loon from Sunderland TV for example.
(ALS, btw, have seen themselves as the voice of the supporters for many years before RAWA was dreamt of.

https://www.not606.com/threads/joint-statement-from-rawa-roker-report-and-wise-men-say.380344/

DONALD OUT: A statement from A Love Supreme, Red and White Army, Roker Report and Wise Men Say)

They all have just as much right as RAWA to address KLD, hope for meetings, explain the passion and demands, etc, much as the idea chills me.

It's not for anyone to start addressing the new owner about demands and expectations imo.

The Echo picked it straight up and headlined it which is the very last thing we need.

If you elect yourself as 'the voice of all Sunderland supporters' you really need to think before you speak.

Sadly I think they did and posted quite deliberately, which concerns me.

 

[Gordon Armstrong]

As a member of RAWA did you not see the post on the SMB asking saying RAWA would be asking the club when the cancelled meeting some weeks previously was going to be rearranged? This was days before the statement put out by the Club on Christmas eve?

I don't go on RTG . . . . because of it's toxicity

 

[Wackyjacky]

I don't really agree with that, if you mean sending it to the members so they're aware before it hits the RAWA website or anywhere else, but communication could be improved. I think it needs to be on the RAWA website first (which it is currently, it goes there, they tweet it, and then they ask if someone can post it on smb, normally ghandi floss as he's the rep, but I'll often do it if he's busy). I think if you send it to all members before it goes on the website, someone will copy and paste it onto their twitter or whatever and suddenly it looks a bit of a shambles that there's a RAWA statement posted on a random twitter account before it's released.

If you just mean that any statement should be on the RAWA website and then emailed to all members at the same time I agree though. I'm not sure why the emails are fairly few and far between. Maybe there's a way to set it up so it sends them automatically when something is posted onto the website. Like i say, there's lots about RAWA that can likely be improved. Communication is certainly one part . I mean, I see smugs comment about including this forum in communication, it's poor if there's not even a reply. I'll try and post anything on here but I won't always manage and it's not exactly an ideal solution! The group is still relatively young though, maybe they need more people involved so that all queries can at least get a response. Certainly I think they should, even if it's a brief reply. If a fan is taking the time to get in touch they should hear back. I suppose the issue is that someone like me couldnt reply, because I'm not on the committee and they wouldn't want me saying something they didn't agree with, but those that are on the committee are volunteers as well so if there's a lot of emails randomly it'll be hard to get to all of them. It needs some thought tbh

Fair point, that would probably happen in fairness and would also do no good. Your point about it going on the website and an email at the same time is ok but it still means they can put what they want which may not be in tune with the membership which is basically what's happened with this statement. I agree it needs a lot more thought before future releases.

 

[Guy Incognito]

I know what we need . . . .

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Salma

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I'll raise you a Salma as well

 

[Smug in Boots]

Fair point, that would probably happen in fairness and would also do no good. Your point about it going on the website and an email at the same time is ok but it still means they can put what they want which may not be in tune with the membership which is basically what's happened with this statement.

I agree it needs a lot more thought before future releases.

Worryingly I don't think the committee are at all naïve and I believe they fully discussed this and agreed the timing, tone and aims of the statement.

IMO it's meant to send a message to their members, other supporters, other fans groups, etc.

However, they're not quite as clever as they obviously believe and, with the help of the Echo, have been made to look arrogant and entitled.

They really need to take a step back and remember that, if they disbanded today, things would carry on in much the same way.

I've supported RAWA until now but this has made me very wary and I'm obviously not the only one.

 

[Sandy Camel]

I don't believe for one moment that they even speak for those 13,000.

I'm a member of RAWA, as a few seem to be on here, and, as far as I know, none of us have been asked for our opinions before posting that absolutely stupid statement

They represent whoever made it . . . . probably one or two people, that's all

If that had stated it was an opinion piece, which it is, it would be the individual who wrote it getting the criticism, not RAWA. RAWA have a level of responsibility they need to be aware of, especially if they want to big themselves up about becoming a supporters trust. It can't be used as a platform for an individual to express individual views, there has to be some sort of collective input to any media release they make with at least one person who will consider how an audience will respond to what is being wrote. It was easy enough to rewrite that piece and take out any parts that could be picked up in a negative manner while expressing the same sentiment.

 

[Sandy Camel]

I understand what you’re saying. It’s just in my mind at least, this thread seems to have a life of its own and it’s growing and growing. I guess should we allow the thread to die its own death or should we euthanise it?

The day KLD is pictured with the scarf over his head is the day the thread sadly dies imo. Be wasting our time on here at that point, probably better off diverting our energy into the "making our demands known" thread instead.

 

[Smug in Boots]

The day KLD is pictured with the scarf over his head is the day the thread sadly dies imo. Be wasting our time on here at that point, probably better off diverting our energy into the "making our demands known" thread instead.

Threads always have a natural life span.

 

[APC]

Threads always have a natural life span.

It’s had a flipping good life this one Tbf

 

[Smug in Boots]

If that had stated it was an opinion piece, which it is, it would be the individual who wrote it getting the criticism, not RAWA. RAWA have a level of responsibility they need to be aware of, especially if they want to big themselves up about becoming a supporters trust. It can't be used as a platform for an individual to express individual views, there has to be some sort of collective input to any media release they make with at least one person who will consider how an audience will respond to what is being wrote. It was easy enough to rewrite that piece and take out any parts that could be picked up in a negative manner while expressing the same sentiment.

There's a 'fact' gradually emerging that RAWA singlehandedly got Donald out of the club.

The reality is that ALS, and others, were heavily involved in the 'open letter'. It's also true that it went out exactly a year ago when Donald had already made it clear he wanted out.

If KLD had pulled out, as he threatened to do on the 27th of November, the club may have gone unsold for years ...

... RAWA wouldn't have taken the blame for that so I can't give them too much credit now.

Donald always wanted to sell the club, that statement just handed him the perfect excuse to blame the supporters ...

... and allowed the fans groups to feel like they were fighting the good fight.

 

[Mick Sterbs]

If that had stated it was an opinion piece, which it is, it would be the individual who wrote it getting the criticism, not RAWA. RAWA have a level of responsibility they need to be aware of, especially if they want to big themselves up about becoming a supporters trust. It can't be used as a platform for an individual to express individual views, there has to be some sort of collective input to any media release they make with at least one person who will consider how an audience will respond to what is being wrote. It was easy enough to rewrite that piece and take out any parts that could be picked up in a negative manner while expressing the same sentiment.

100% the thoughts of an individual who comes across as a bit arrogant IMO. It’s very passive aggressive giving a hint to that person’s self importance in a RAWA elected role.

“As with any newcomer to wearside he will be given the warmest of welcomes
( you’re nothing special mate so you’ll be treat the same as everyone else. Not a very warming welcome )

“Great faith will be put on him to rebuild our club”
( surely great faith should be put in him, that reads like great pressure put on him )

“Supporters will hope to see evidence of a long term plan”
(The man is on trial in front of RAWA before he’s even arrived. How arrogant? )

“We’re sure the new owner has done his homework on our fans, but we will do our bit to help him understand the passion and demands of our fans”
( you better look us up mate and see what we’re all about but if not don’t worry because we’ll soon let you know )

“We’ll let him know that our support will continue if he attempts to meet the standards of our club”
( we’ve been here before and we’re not convinced your even going to try to make us successful)

Just a few points that stood out to me, maybe I’m reading too much into it but I think it looks less of a welcome statement and more like a veiled threat. Whoever wrote that should hold their hands up to being a complete bellend and RAWA should retract it immediately.

Does anyone on here think that statement is how we should be welcoming KLD? If I was him I’d be seriously thinking about what lies ahead if RAWA truly are the voice of the Sunderland faithful. A toxic atmosphere at Marseille contributed to his fathers ill health, I’m sure we don’t want him thinking the same could happen here with him.

 

[Smug in Boots]

100% the thoughts of an individual who comes across as a bit arrogant IMO. It’s very passive aggressive giving a hint to that person’s self importance in a RAWA elected role.

“As with any newcomer to wearside he will be given the warmest of welcomes
( you’re nothing special mate so you’ll be treat the same as everyone else. Not a very warming welcome )

“Great faith will be put on him to rebuild our club”
( surely great faith should be put in him, that reads like great pressure put on him )

“Supporters will hope to see evidence of a long term plan”
(The man is on trial in front of RAWA before he’s even arrived. How arrogant? )

“We’re sure the new owner has done his homework on our fans, but we will do our bit to help him understand the passion and demands of our fans”
( you better look us up mate and see what we’re all about but if not don’t worry because we’ll soon let you know )

“We’ll let him know that our support will continue if he attempts to meet the standards of our club”
( we’ve been here before and we’re not convinced your even going to try to make us successful)

Just a few points that stood out to me, maybe I’m reading too much into it but I think it looks less of a welcome statement and more like a veiled threat. Whoever wrote that should hold their hands up to being a complete bellend and RAWA should retract it immediately.

Does anyone on here think that statement is how we should be welcoming KLD? If I was him I’d be seriously thinking about what lies ahead if RAWA truly are the voice of the Sunderland faithful. A toxic atmosphere at Marseille contributed to his fathers ill health, I’m sure we don’t want him thinking the same could happen here with him.

I couldn't pin down what the 'welcome statement' reminded me of ...

... then Mrs Smug had a daft film on with a pompous middle class father having some young lad ask for his daughters hand in marriage.

"Yes you're welcome to this family son, but you need to remember we have standards here and you'll have my support if ...

... don't worry we'll explain what this family is all about and you'll be accepted if etc, etc, etc."

 

[Mick Sterbs]

I couldn't pin down what the 'welcome statement' reminded me of ...

... then Mrs Smug had a daft film on with a pompous middle class father having some young lad ask for his daughters hand in marriage.

"Yes you're welcome to this family son, but you need to remember we have standards here and you'll have my support if ...

... don't worry we'll explain what this family is all about and you'll be accepted if etc, etc, etc."

That’s it in a nutshell .

 

[SAFCDRUM]

It’s had a flipping good life this one Tbf

Just coming up to retirement but the retirement age keeps getting put up and up.......

 

[rowley]

The idea anyway that supporters have " influence', beyond going or not, is for the birds.

Clubs are bought and sold on the basis of money. It's always been about money, it will always be about money.

Supporters doling out nessages, other than actual support, will have no effect at all, other than potentially alienating those to whom they are aimed.

There is a list as long as a pick pockets arm of supporters who have demonstrated, held protest meetings, organised petitions and debased themselves in Parliament Square to no end at all.

Things are settled in the end by money. Wailing at plate glass, and holding mock funerals makes no difference, nor does composing badly written, open letters. The main difference between the two here is that the former might have something to complain about, the latter do not.