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Diego said:
Outscored opponents mate, you know, the teams we have played against.
City have outscored their opponents 31 times in the league this season so far.

It's really not hard to understand.
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Actually it is, because nobody can figure out why any self-respecting person needs to go to such ridiculous lengths to try and say their team aren't Stoke City with several billion quid behind them by trying to spin 1-0 wins over Southampton into some for of achievement.

Whoopee-****ing-doo, you scored more goals than West Scam once this season. Guess what? Plenty of teams did that twice, and they ain't acting as if that's like winning the ****ing league.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Actually it is, because nobody can figure out why any self-respecting person needs to go to such ridiculous lengths to try and say their team aren't Stoke City with several billion quid behind them by trying to spin 1-0 wins over Southampton into some for of achievement.

Whoopee-****ing-doo, you scored more goals than West Scam once this season. Guess what? Plenty of teams did that twice, and they ain't acting as if that's like winning the ****ing league.
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I can't imagine why you didn't understand a simple post.
 
Diego said:
I can't imagine why you didn't understand a simple post.
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Oh I understood the post perfectly: you were trying to overcompensate for being nothing more than Stoke with several billion quid more behind you, I was just pointing out that trying to hide behind that failed to explain how teams that aren't even in the top four have scored more goals and, by complete coincidence, got further in European competition than your lot happened to do.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Oh I understood the post perfectly: you were trying to overcompensate for being nothing more than Stoke with several billion quid more behind you, I was just pointing out that trying to hide behind that failed to explain how teams that aren't even in the top four have scored more goals and, by complete coincidence, got further in European competition than your lot happened to do.
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But outscoring your opponents is important, some might say it was the object of the game.
Look at the top ten positions in the PL, with the exception of Chelsea each team is in a corresponding position to the number of opponents they have outscored. Strange eh?
 
Diego said:
But outscoring your opponents is important, some might say it was the object of the game.
Look at the top ten positions in the PL, with the exception of Chelsea each team is in a corresponding position to the number of opponents they have outscored. Strange eh?
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Here's the problem with thinking that outscoring your opponent's is enough: while that's enough for a knockout competition, in terms of most leagues (Serie A being an obvious exception) it isn't as goal difference can, will and has been a deciding factor many, many times over the seasons.

Say, for the sake of being argumentative, the two Manchester teams finished level on points this season: the Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan Team would still win the league due to having a goal difference which is literally double what Man Utd's is, and even if they somehow conspired to have the same goal difference they'd still win the league on goals scored.

And that's the point: under the same criteria, Saltypool would also win the league instead of Man Utd, while Spurs' goal difference was also superior to Man Utd's until we decided to derp our way through April - yet we've still outscored Expensive Stoke, which begs the question why the Standard called us the biggest damp squib of the season in spite of several better choices in the upper third of the table.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Here's the problem with thinking that outscoring your opponent's is enough: while that's enough for a knockout competition, in terms of most leagues (Serie A being an obvious exception) it isn't as goal difference can, will and has been a deciding factor many, many times over the seasons.

Say, for the sake of being argumentative, the two Manchester teams finished level on points this season: the Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan Team would still win the league due to having a goal difference which is literally double what Man Utd's is, and even if they somehow conspired to have the same goal difference they'd still win the league on goals scored.

And that's the point: under the same criteria, Saltypool would also win the league instead of Man Utd, while Spurs' goal difference was also superior to Man Utd's until we decided to derp our way through April - yet we've still outscored Expensive Stoke, which begs the question why the Standard called us the biggest damp squib of the season in spite of several better choices in the upper third of the table.
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I am well aware of this, City have beat us on GD twice, once for the title and once for top 4, it did not impress me.
We failed because we didn't gain more points than them not because they once had a 6-0 win over the bottom team. I have no such feelings this year, City have won far more games than us and have won the league by points not beating up cannon fodder though they have done that plenty of times too (as well as a few top teams).
 
Diego said:
I am well aware of this, City have beat us on GD twice, once for the title and once for top 4, it did not impress me.
We failed because we didn't gain more points than them not because they once had a 6-0 win over the bottom team. I have no such feelings this year, City have won far more games than us and have won the league by points not beating up cannon fodder though they have done that plenty of times too (as well as a few top teams).
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That's the issue with Alberto Steptoehno: he sets up teams for knockout competitions (or Serie A, as they view goal difference as the work of the devil) but the obvious issues are that
a.) It's clearly not working this season, given their Champions League campaign fizzled out
b.) Trying to grind out results when another team is teabagging the league is about as effective as that game in the 2010 World Cup where Greece were 2-0 down against Argentina and needed at least a draw yet continued to have ten men on the edge of their penalty area
c.) When those tactic fail, throwing various first team players under the bus when it was Steptoenho's tactics that caused far more damage is not going to unite the squad - unless they happen to be planning on doing the full Julius Caesar on him in the dressing room tomorrow afternoon, anyway...
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
That's the issue with Alberto Steptoehno: he sets up teams for knockout competitions (or Serie A, as they view goal difference as the work of the devil) but the obvious issues are that
a.) It's clearly not working this season, given their Champions League campaign fizzled out
b.) Trying to grind out results when another team is teabagging the league is about as effective as that game in the 2010 World Cup where Greece were 2-0 down against Argentina and needed at least a draw yet continued to have ten men on the edge of their penalty area
c.) When those tactic fail, throwing various first team players under the bus when it was Steptoenho's tactics that caused far more damage is not going to unite the squad - unless they happen to be planning on doing the full Julius Caesar on him in the dressing room tomorrow afternoon, anyway...
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You mean apart from the 3 times he has won the PL and this time is second behind a very good team, or perhaps the La Liga he won or the 2 Premeira Ligas he won. Yeah, apart from that he is just a knockout manager.
 
Dier Hard said:
You think the Isco stuff was bad?

Just wait 'til I start getting Serious, because Seriously, it's going to change your life, I'm going to be a Serial nuisance to you now, RD! <laugh>
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Just been told that Bale and Modric are both open
to returning to Spurs in the summer if Madrid win the CL final.
 
"Thanks for that Brian" said:
<laugh> Silly old fecker. It's kind of sad really. He's seriously started to unravel in the last couple of years. Paying Ozil £350k per week to do **** all and a CL bonus to players, despite the unfortunate lack of CL football, was the last straw for the owners. He was doing too much damage to be allowed to complete his contract.
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My real hope is that he has seriously damaged their
wage bill. Two more seasons of EL could see some
serious LMAO when their "LMAO" put in transfer requests.
 
Diego said:
You mean apart from the 3 times he has won the PL and this time is second behind a very good team, or perhaps the La Liga he won or the 2 Premeira Ligas he won. Yeah, apart from that he is just a knockout manager.
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2002/3 Primeira Liga: Sporting were absolute ****e that season, making the league 50% easier to win given the dreck in the rest of the league
2003/4 Primeira Liga: Sporting and Benfica both turned up, meaning a whole four games were important that season
2004/5 Premier league: Man Utd had a transitional season, thus removing 50% of the challenge - and the other 50% was Arsenal
2005/6 Premier League: Arsenal were ****e that season, thus removing 50% of the challenge
2008/9 Serie A: Juve were rebuilding post-Calciopoli while Milan's team was ageing rapidly
2009/10 Serie A: Juve were so bad they barely qualified for the Europa League while Milan were rebuilding, making it a cakewalk
2011/12 La Liga: Barca were the only threat so that's a whole two league games he needed to win
2014/15 Premier League: Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal all had stuttering seasons while Liverpool were barely qualified for the Europa League

Have you noticed the pattern there? His "success" is built on two things: leagues where there's barely any actual competition and the usual title challengers having off seasons - which by complete coincidence allows him to set his teams up like they're playing in a cu[p competition, usually aiming for a home win and away draw against those sides. Yet when the other title challengers do turn up, by complete coincidence he's not the one with the league trophy in his mitts at the end of the season.

As for this season's "success" let's put it into context, shall we?
* Spurs had a slow start to the season, coupled with a couple of derp periods in November and April
* Saltypool had a slow start to the season as their team hadn't gelled and their crap defence was exposed, coupled with resting players late in the season
* Chelsea have been an utter trainwreck all season
* Arsenal had graciously removed themselves from the equation

So this season there were just two games Steptonho needed to focus on as the other contenders were cancelling themselves out just like what happened in 2014/15, but his tactical quote-unquote masterplan failed to take advantage and he was left with nothing other than some tetchy press conferences and at least a dozen players he attempts to shift the blame onto for his own failures.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
2002/3 Primeira Liga: Sporting were absolute ****e that season, making the league 50% easier to win given the dreck in the rest of the league
2003/4 Primeira Liga: Sporting and Benfica both turned up, meaning a whole four games were important that season
2004/5 Premier league: Man Utd had a transitional season, thus removing 50% of the challenge - and the other 50% was Arsenal
2005/6 Premier League: Arsenal were ****e that season, thus removing 50% of the challenge
2008/9 Serie A: Juve were rebuilding post-Calciopoli while Milan's team was ageing rapidly
2009/10 Serie A: Juve were so bad they barely qualified for the Europa League while Milan were rebuilding, making it a cakewalk
2011/12 La Liga: Barca were the only threat so that's a whole two league games he needed to win
2014/15 Premier League: Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal all had stuttering seasons while Liverpool were barely qualified for the Europa League

Have you noticed the pattern there? His "success" is built on two things: leagues where there's barely any actual competition and the usual title challengers having off seasons - which by complete coincidence allows him to set his teams up like they're playing in a cu[p competition, usually aiming for a home win and away draw against those sides. Yet when the other title challengers do turn up, by complete coincidence he's not the one with the league trophy in his mitts at the end of the season.

As for this season's "success" let's put it into context, shall we?
* Spurs had a slow start to the season, coupled with a couple of derp periods in November and April
* Saltypool had a slow start to the season as their team hadn't gelled and their crap defence was exposed, coupled with resting players late in the season
* Chelsea have been an utter trainwreck all season
* Arsenal had graciously removed themselves from the equation

So this season there were just two games Steptonho needed to focus on as the other contenders were cancelling themselves out just like what happened in 2014/15, but his tactical quote-unquote masterplan failed to take advantage and he was left with nothing other than some tetchy press conferences and at least a dozen players he attempts to shift the blame onto for his own failures.
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<laugh>

Has anyone ever won anything legitimately based on the above?

What's the reasoning behind his cl wins? Pure fluke?
 
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BobbyD said:
<laugh>

Has anyone ever won anything legitimately based on the above?

What's the reasoning behind his cl wins? Pure fluke?
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You did read the part about his teams being set up for knockout football, right? But as you're bringing it up...

Porto's Champions League 2003/4 opponents
Group Stage: Los Ladrones, Marseilles, Partizan Belgrade - four points against Marseilles were all that was needed as Los Ladrones stomped everyone and everyone stomped Partizan
Last 16: Man Utd in a transitional season where they finished a distant third
Quarter Finals: Lyon
Semi Finals: Deportivo la Coruna
Final: Monaco

In comparison, here's the teams Monaco faced that season
Group Stage: Deportivo, PSV, AEK Athens
Last 16: Lokomotiv Moscow
Quarter Finals: Los Ladrones
Semi Finals: Chelsea
Final: Porto

So whose tournament was more impressive, the team that beat Los Ladrones and Chelsea on the way to the final, or the team who beat Lyon and Deportivo?

Open a window and let the smoke dissipate, and you'll realise you're standing in a hall of mirrors.
BobbyD said:
You would have been better off with the standard Jose can only do it with money argument
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No, I would have been better off actually knowing what I was talking about rather than blindly assuming that his achievements are on a similar level to Brendan Rodgers' at Celtic, because if most of the league aren't up to much and the main competition hasn't shown up winning the league is surprisingly straightforward.
 
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