Progress under LR

[bradymk2]

I think the key thing we are missing is speed of thought, its all so static and slow, therefore it's easy to defend against. Now whether that is down to the coaching or choice of personnel is a fine call. Potentially a combination of the 2, but I go back to the Ipswich game and how they moved it so much faster, without what you would consider having the so called star players. Now McKenna has been at the helm a tad bit longer then Liam and has had more time to create his team and the tactics, but he seems less risk averse then LR.
Sometimes you have to be braver to get the rewards, at present it comes across from watching us that the tactics seem more to avoid defeat then get a win.
I'm hoping that LR puts it right, really like the fella and his affinity with the club, but I do agree with some on here that suggest he needs a good assistant, one with a little nowse, Dawson while being a great servant to us, isn't a manager or assistant manager, he's shown that already both here and Scunny.

mckenna seems to accept the risks with their high tempo play, they concede a fair goals as it leaves lots of gaps at times, under rosie, we are playing with a slow tempo deliberately, this means we are typically concede fewer chances, but due to how slow our tempo is at times, we just cant break down teams
we need to find a balance. we have some pacey players, they need to be able to run onto balls in space

 

[Evington]

I don’t like the way we play and I think it’s very quickly become outdated since the whole world seemed to try copy teams like Man City and Brighton.

Positional play is so boring to watch and easier to defend against, especially when it’s done at the tempo we play.

I’m not sure how deep you guys are into football tactics and philosophy but dynamic/relational football is becoming the “in” thing right now and it’s so much more entertaining to watch. Teams like Fluminense are probably the most extreme version of it however Spurs also incorporate a lot of the same principles and look at them flying

Basically lots of movement, give and go’s, players not having to stick to their designated position. It’s the total opposite to positional play where everything is robotic and symmetrical.

I worry LR only has one way of setting up a team, it’s bad enough not getting results but it’s even worse when it’s not particularly entertaining either

Sounds like the Dutch team of the 70's to me.

And as I said on the match day thread, don't get too disappointed when we drop points and don't get too excited when we take all 3. That is unless we keep taking all 3 and we jump to the top of the table. Trouble is it will bring all the ****e that is the premier league. Who really wants that?

I thought we were moving the ball much quicker against Southampton (missed Plymouth at home) and we just need to sort the last bit i.e. ball in onion bag.

Rosenior all this season and next for me. And it would be interesting to know who, if anyone is acting as a sounding board for him.

This thread is a great idea Howden. Well done. Let's hope the exchange of views stays mainly on this plain.

 

[SW3 Chelsea Tiger]

There is defo progress, the league table shows that, I don’t want LR sacked…..but….i am getting frustrated with the man & his tactics.

our “unique” style, what’s ****ing unique about it???

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

I don’t buy this bollocks that Rosenior’s playing style was the difference in luring Philogene, Delap and Morton and that they wouldn’t come were it not for his style.

Delap played for Stoke and Preston last year, both of which are not possession teams and are pretty direct. Philogene was on loan at Cardiff, another team that didn’t play possession football last year.

Young players tend to go where they’ll get the most game time on loan or the most money if it’s a permanent deal.

Tbh if I was a young strong centre forward I’d go to Stoke
Get loads of the ball and be involved a lot

 

[AlRawdah]

Your last line is worrying considering how much emphasis was based on fitness by LR during pre season

I would say it is mostly the players we signed more recently that have the fitness issues. I was surprised how Philiogene fell off a cliff after 75 minutes on Saturday yet the obviously switch to the energetic Sinik wasn't made. I would asssume the analytics on the touchline confirmed what was obvious from the East Stand!

 

[Evington]

Sounds like the Dutch team of the 70's to me.

And as I said on the match day thread, don't get too disappointed when we drop points and don't get too excited when we take all 3. That is unless we keep taking all 3 and we jump to the top of the table. Trouble is it will bring all the ****e that is the premier league. Who really wants that?

I thought we were moving the ball much quicker against Southampton (missed Plymouth at home) and we just need to sort the last bit i.e. ball in onion bag.

Rosenior all this season and next for me. And it would be interesting to know who, if anyone is acting as a sounding board for him.

This thread is a great idea Howden. Well done. Let's hope the exchange of views stays mainly on this plain.

Thanks to East_Stand_Always I have just started listening to Brian Horton on the under the cosh podcast. That's the type of 'assistant' Liam needs. Great experience, great bloke, great football and a winner.

 

[jhe10]

Who's using selective stats? I certainly haven't.

I DIDN'T SELECT ANY STATS!!!!

I picked and or selected ( whichever way you want to word it ) the 12 games this season and last season ...

APART FROM THOSE STATS!!!!!

 

[highpeak tiger]

Let's rephrase:
As we have played 12 games so far this season, it was decided to compare and contrast this seasons performance, with the first 12 games of the previous season.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

Rosenior steadied a sinking ship that was Arveladze's tenure. He's had his summer to get his squad and then prepare them in pre-season according to his methods. I think, on balance, we are pretty average. A mid-table team, as Howden says. We fall into the same bracket as Stoke and Brum.

Our midfield still lacks bite, our full-backs are very inconsistent and despite our possession philosophy, most of our goals come from moments of individual brilliance. We struggle to break teams down and recently, we look shaky at the back as well.

I think Rosenior dropped a massive bollock not signing a defensive mid and letting Estupiñán leave without a replacement already in the door. Call it naivety or arrogance or whatever thinking he didn't need to sign those players but he ****ed up massively on that front.

I'm not a fan of sacking managers mid-season barring a disastrous run of form that requires immediate intervention to get us out the **** so I'm content to have him as manager until May at the very least but if he falls below expectation in his first full season, I think he should probably go and Acun needs to put nostalgia and sentimentality aside and hire the best possible candidate he can. He's hired his mate for the job and then an inexperienced former player as a manager. I questioned Rosenior's appointment in the first place as we went from being linked with Pedro Martins, Carlos Corberán, Carlos Carvalhal etc. to a former player who had a short stint as the #1 at a League 1 club before being let go.

Some good, measured posts on here, not least this one.

Agree with all the points made, other than the 'waiting till May' bit.

Despite the gaps that Kalman, imo rightly, points out, with the players he has at his disposal (the quality he inherited plus those he's been supported with in 2 windows), we should surely be seeing crystal clear signs by now of us becoming a real attacking force in this division. The first few weeks of his tenure were understandably about sorting out the defence. He (or Daws) did that. Next needed to come turning us into a credible attacking force, even during last season starting with the players we had for the 2nd half of the season, and then to be improved upon by the summer signings (Delap, Philogene, Lokilo, Vinagre, Twine, the return of Connolly) and the opportunity of getting players properly prepared during pre-season. All the excuses gone. It's also what he promised to us, and I'd assume to Acun & Tan; exciting attacking football. To my mind, it just isn't happening.

Doncaster in the cup was one of the most embarrasing performances I've ever seen. Wednesday, just after, gave hope, but we soon realised that it was more to do with Wednesday being so poor. Results since haven't been disastrous, but to my mind, there simply aren't signs of us becoming a credible attacking force. He simply cannot infer blame on not having the players to play his 'unique' way of playing football (guffaw). Hopefully it changes from tomorrow night onwards, but I just don't see it happening under him, because if it were to happen then we'd surely have seen clear signs of it even last season, never mind 12 games into this.

Question then is, how long do we wait? I don't think we can afford to wait till May, or even beyond the January window. Our home form reads L W (Wednesday!) D D D D L. That just isn't good enough. If he doesn't sort our home form and our attacking problems out in the next few games, I would find it hard to believe anyone could seriously think other than we have the wrong man, or at least (being kind) the wrong time, as in way too early in his career.

 

[cheshireles]

Some good, measured posts on here, not least this one.

Agree with all the points made, other than the 'waiting till May' bit.

Despite the gaps that Kalman, imo rightly, points out, with the players he has at his disposal (the quality he inherited plus those he's been supported with in 2 windows), we should surely be seeing crystal clear signs by now of us becoming a real attacking force in this division. The first few weeks of his tenure were understandably about sorting out the defence. He (or Daws) did that. Next needed to come turning us into a credible attacking force, even during last season starting with the players we had for the 2nd half of the season, and then to be improved upon by the summer signings (Delap, Philogene, Lokilo, Vinagre, Twine, the return of Connolly) and the opportunity of getting players properly prepared during pre-season. All the excuses gone. It's also what he promised to us, and I'd assume to Acun & Tan; exciting attacking football. To my mind, it just isn't happening.

Doncaster in the cup was one of the most embarrasing performances I've ever seen. Wednesday, just after, gave hope, but we soon realised that it was more to do with Wednesday being so poor. Results since haven't been disastrous, but to my mind, there simply aren't signs of us becoming a credible attacking force. He simply cannot infer blame on not having the players to play his 'unique' way of playing football (guffaw). Hopefully it changes from tomorrow night onwards, but I just don't see it happening under him, because if it were to happen then we'd surely have seen clear signs of it even last season, never mind 12 games into this.

Question then is, how long do we wait? I don't think we can afford to wait till May, or even beyond the January window. Our home form reads L W (Wednesday!) D D D D L. That just isn't good enough. If he doesn't sort our home form and our attacking problems out in the next few games, I would find it hard to believe anyone could seriously think other than we have the wrong man, or at least (being kind) the wrong time, as in way too early in his career.

As for progress, we've gone from being a relegation threatened team to one that should comfortably finish mid table.

As for anyone thinking promotion, bar a big upturn in confidence, and results, suggest you give your head a shake. It's not likely to happen this season in my opinion.

 

[Evington]

Some good, measured posts on here, not least this one.

Agree with all the points made, other than the 'waiting till May' bit.

Despite the gaps that Kalman, imo rightly, points out, with the players he has at his disposal (the quality he inherited plus those he's been supported with in 2 windows), we should surely be seeing crystal clear signs by now of us becoming a real attacking force in this division. The first few weeks of his tenure were understandably about sorting out the defence. He (or Daws) did that. Next needed to come turning us into a credible attacking force, even during last season starting with the players we had for the 2nd half of the season, and then to be improved upon by the summer signings (Delap, Philogene, Lokilo, Vinagre, Twine, the return of Connolly) and the opportunity of getting players properly prepared during pre-season. All the excuses gone. It's also what he promised to us, and I'd assume to Acun & Tan; exciting attacking football. To my mind, it just isn't happening.

Doncaster in the cup was one of the most embarrasing performances I've ever seen. Wednesday, just after, gave hope, but we soon realised that it was more to do with Wednesday being so poor. Results since haven't been disastrous, but to my mind, there simply aren't signs of us becoming a credible attacking force. He simply cannot infer blame on not having the players to play his 'unique' way of playing football (guffaw). Hopefully it changes from tomorrow night onwards, but I just don't see it happening under him, because if it were to happen then we'd surely have seen clear signs of it even last season, never mind 12 games into this.

Question then is, how long do we wait? I don't think we can afford to wait till May, or even beyond the January window. Our home form reads L W (Wednesday!) D D D D L. That just isn't good enough. If he doesn't sort our home form and our attacking problems out in the next few games, I would find it hard to believe anyone could seriously think other than we have the wrong man, or at least (being kind) the wrong time, as in way too early in his career.

Impatient or what?

 

[Gone For A Walk]

Some might have said we were a 'relegation threatened side', but that was largely because Shota, unfortunately, was way out of his depth. Or at least simply didn't have the communication & leadership skills needed.

Within no time at all, we were transformed in terms of organisation & defence. Basically the same players.

What's impatient about waiting a year already to see similar in terms of our attacking play, especially when 2 windows, a pre-season, and some more than decent signings (on top of the already decent players we had) have been added during that time?

 

[Evington]

Some might have said we were a 'relegation threatened side', but that was largely because Shota, unfortunately, was way out of his depth. Or at least simply didn't have the communication & leadership skills needed.

Within no time at all, we were transformed in terms of organisation & defence. Basically the same players.

What's impatient about waiting a year already to see similar in terms of our attacking play, especially when 2 windows, a pre-season, and some more than decent signings (on top of the already decent players we had) have been added during that time?

Maybe it's me but I think a project takes longer than a year. We all want to see more attacking play that results in goals but I think it will come. My biggest gripe is we didn't sign some experience. Look at Leicester, Southampton, Leeds. I know they are all relegated but they are playing with players who have a track record. We have got players who are still developing which is always going to be an uphill task. Frustrating or what!

 

[originalminority]

Some might have said we were a 'relegation threatened side', but that was largely because Shota, unfortunately, was way out of his depth. Or at least simply didn't have the communication & leadership skills needed.

Within no time at all, we were transformed in terms of organisation & defence. Basically the same players.

What's impatient about waiting a year already to see similar in terms of our attacking play, especially when 2 windows, a pre-season, and some more than decent signings (on top of the already decent players we had) have been added during that time?

Fair point, Rosenior and Dawson were defenders, who coaches our forwards?

 

[Drew]

Some good, measured posts on here, not least this one.

Agree with all the points made, other than the 'waiting till May' bit.

Despite the gaps that Kalman, imo rightly, points out, with the players he has at his disposal (the quality he inherited plus those he's been supported with in 2 windows), we should surely be seeing crystal clear signs by now of us becoming a real attacking force in this division. The first few weeks of his tenure were understandably about sorting out the defence. He (or Daws) did that. Next needed to come turning us into a credible attacking force, even during last season starting with the players we had for the 2nd half of the season, and then to be improved upon by the summer signings (Delap, Philogene, Lokilo, Vinagre, Twine, the return of Connolly) and the opportunity of getting players properly prepared during pre-season. All the excuses gone. It's also what he promised to us, and I'd assume to Acun & Tan; exciting attacking football. To my mind, it just isn't happening.

Doncaster in the cup was one of the most embarrasing performances I've ever seen. Wednesday, just after, gave hope, but we soon realised that it was more to do with Wednesday being so poor. Results since haven't been disastrous, but to my mind, there simply aren't signs of us becoming a credible attacking force. He simply cannot infer blame on not having the players to play his 'unique' way of playing football (guffaw). Hopefully it changes from tomorrow night onwards, but I just don't see it happening under him, because if it were to happen then we'd surely have seen clear signs of it even last season, never mind 12 games into this.

Question then is, how long do we wait? I don't think we can afford to wait till May, or even beyond the January window. Our home form reads L W (Wednesday!) D D D D L. That just isn't good enough. If he doesn't sort our home form and our attacking problems out in the next few games, I would find it hard to believe anyone could seriously think other than we have the wrong man, or at least (being kind) the wrong time, as in way too early in his career.

Honestly though, I do see an improvement in our attacking play.

As has been said elsewhere, I think we are creating more chances under LR than we did under Grant or Shota. Our problem at the moment is converting them.

I think we could have scored 2/3 on Saturday with the right speed of thought. We could have won the game and had Southampton buried before we ran out of steam. Equally, I can’t complain that they won either.

I appreciate that’s one game, but I do think I’ve seen that develop just this season. It needs to be better, but as this team gets used to each other (and, crucially, Tufan gets back to fitness) that hopefully improves.

I think back to games under Grant (and Adkins actually sometimes) and the number of times I watched the games and thought ‘we’re just doing the same thing over and over’. Others may disagree but I don’t see that in many games now. I think we are trying different things.

It’s different perspectives I know but I’m just not finding it boring. (Donny aside). In fact, Saturday was the best game (for 60 mins), I’ve seen for a while.

We need to keep going and we’re not there yet, but this does feel like the best Championship team we’ve had by far since we last got relegated from the PL.

 

[Howdentiger2]

Honestly though, I do see an improvement in our attacking play.

As has been said elsewhere, I think we are creating more chances under LR than we did under Grant or Shota. Our problem at the moment is converting them.

I think we could have scored 2/3 on Saturday with the right speed of thought. We could have won the game and had Southampton buried before we ran out of steam. Equally, I can’t complain that they won either.

I appreciate that’s one game, but I do think I’ve seen that develop just this season. It needs to be better, but as this team gets used to each other (and, crucially, Tufan gets back to fitness) that hopefully improves.

I think back to games under Grant (and Adkins actually sometimes) and the number of times I watched the games and thought ‘we’re just doing the same thing over and over’. Others may disagree but I don’t see that in many games now. I think we are trying different things.

It’s different perspectives I know but I’m just not finding it boring. (Donny aside). In fact, Saturday was the best game (for 60 mins), I’ve seen for a while.

We need to keep going and we’re not there yet, but this does feel like the best Championship team we’ve had by far since we last got relegated from the PL.

It definitely is the best champ team we've had since the last promotion season, hence why I feel we should be doing better with it. LR isnt getting the best out this squad ( I not sure even PLT can argue this ) and I'm not convinced he can get the best from this squad either.

 

[Drew]

It definitely is the best champ team we've had since the last promotion season, hence why I feel we should be doing better with it. LR isnt getting the best out this squad ( I not sure even PLT can argue this ) and I'm not convinced he can get the best from this squad either.

‘The best’ is interesting isn’t it. I agree with you on that.

But at the same time it’s such fine margins to me that I almost don’t begrudge that. I think we’re playing well but not we’ll enough.

Im hoping that means it clicks and I’m willing to stay onside for that to happen

 

[jhe10]

Our home form reads L W (Wednesday!) D D D D L. That just isn't good enough.

20th in the home form table.
Not good.
Rosenior out!
7th in the away form table.
Good.
Rosenior in!

 

[hullborn]

It definitely is the best champ team we've had since the last promotion season, hence why I feel we should be doing better with it. LR isnt getting the best out this squad ( I not sure even PLT can argue this ) and I'm not convinced he can get the best from this squad either.

I agree. I'm more worried about how long it will take for Acun to come to the same conclusion and more importantly, which direction he'll go.

His first two managerial appointments have been questionable to say the least. If Liam didn't have connections to us I don't think many on here would have been happy with someone like him getting the job.

 

[Rigsby]

Rosenoir is a young, inexperienced manager who will make mistakes, but hopefully learn from them. He has a young squad with a lot of new players who all seem to be on board with the methods and style of play. They’ve all made errors, and bad decisions too during games, but as they become more accustomed to the style and to each other these mistakes will reduce and we will start to turn defeats into draws and draws into wins.

We could quite easily have gained an extra 5 or 6 points so far which would have us in the top 3, although I realise it’s all about making the best of opportunities and converting your chances and we have to improve on that front and I’m sure we will. Rosenoir and his team will only get better, make better choices, and start to play the ball quicker and improve the tempo of games. This all comes with time, and patience is a virtue!

After 40 years of watching City I don’t recall such a young and exciting team. I’ve really enjoyed the season so far and it’s great to see them play with great confidence (even when some of the fans are groaning in the stands!)

*whispers* I detect we could quite possibly be on the cusp of something special – there I’ve said it!

UTT