Poor management

[Nads]

Never said at any time he is a god, I just said after 4 months trying to save our season using someone else's ****e, failed squad and getting us 11th from 18th, he deserves to be given a chance before the knives start to sharpen. Even by our fickle standards this thread is embarrassing imo.

We are sounding more like your lot with this line than usual SAFC fans.

PS shameless. No one has ever had a big enough pair of gonads to bully me.

Thing is Cest, not anyone on here has slated MON as such, just asked legitimate questions about the teams slump.

The only confrontation is coming from you, and the fact that despite the fact you'll give him credit for the good run (with the '****e players inherited from the previous manager'), you then use these same players as his excuse for no win in 8.

It simply can't be both ways, either the players are so **** MON couldn't get them playing (he did, or we'd be down...), or MON has to take some responsibility for failing to maintain the same level of motivation and commitment for the run in.

AGAIN, I, and everybody else on this thread, am 100% behind MON, and will remain so, but for you to hold him above reproach, is just not the real world.

 

[Commachio]

Thing is Cest, not anyone on here has slated MON as such, just asked legitimate questions about the teams slump.

The only confrontation is coming from you, and the fact that despite the fact you'll give him credit for the good run (with the '****e players inherited from the previous manager'), you then use these same players as his excuse for no win in 8.

It simply can't be both ways, either the players are so **** MON couldn't get them playing (he did, or we'd be down...), or MON has to take some responsibility for failing to maintain the same level of motivation and commitment for the run in.

AGAIN, I, and everybody else on this thread, am 100% behind MON, and will remain so, but for you to hold him above reproach, is just not the real world.

Well that fine post, saves a whole lot of people the time trying to find the right words....

 

[LFT]

You have a way with words Monsmush , you've got across in two posts what I've tried to do in 10.

 

[Steven Royston O'Neill]

Thing is Cest, not anyone on here has slated MON as such, just asked legitimate questions about the teams slump.

The only confrontation is coming from you, and the fact that despite the fact you'll give him credit for the good run (with the '****e players inherited from the previous manager'), you then use these same players as his excuse for no win in 8.

It simply can't be both ways, either the players are so **** MON couldn't get them playing (he did, or we'd be down...), or MON has to take some responsibility for failing to maintain the same level of motivation and commitment for the run in.

AGAIN, I, and everybody else on this thread, am 100% behind MON, and will remain so, but for you to hold him above reproach, is just not the real world.

Thread over I feel, nothing more to say, well done MM

 

[marcusblackcat]

Cest,

As i said in my post there, I haven't lost any faith in MON.

BUT, he is not beyond reproach, he had failed to motivate the team for 4-5 weeks now, that can't be dismissed.

He motivated them for his first 13 games, so what's changed?

The season is finished. We have nothing to play for. That shows on the pitch. 2 wins in 13 games tells a story. I think MON may have tried to motivate but how easy is that? It's like asking someone to re-finish a job they have done successfully imo.

The other thing is, if we had win 6 or 7 of the games, Ellis may think "this is ok we don't need much" but this has shown that we nred improving big time and it may be good that it's happened. I'm not saying it's good for us as fans but as a whole it may be good for the future of our club

 

[Nads]

The season is finished. We have nothing to play for. That shows on the pitch. 2 wins in 13 games tells a story. I think MON may have tried to motivate but how easy is that? It's like asking someone to re-finish a job they have done successfully imo.

The other thing is, if we had win 6 or 7 of the games, Ellis may think "this is ok we don't need much" but this has shown that we nred improving big time and it may be good that it's happened. I'm not saying it's good for us as fans but as a whole it may be good for the future of our club

I'd agree it may have helped with the budget mate, but that's a whole new topic

 

[Cest Advocaat]

Thing is Cest, not anyone on here has slated MON as such, just asked legitimate questions about the teams slump.

The only confrontation is coming from you, and the fact that despite the fact you'll give him credit for the good run (with the '****e players inherited from the previous manager'), you then use these same players as his excuse for no win in 8.

It simply can't be both ways, either the players are so **** MON couldn't get them playing (he did, or we'd be down...), or MON has to take some responsibility for failing to maintain the same level of motivation and commitment for the run in.

AGAIN, I, and everybody else on this thread, am 100% behind MON, and will remain so, but for you to hold him above reproach, is just not the real world.

But then I never said he was beyond reproach either. My point is after a mere 4 months, with a squad of players he neither assembled or targeted, he has delivered one of the greatest recovery acts ever seen. Back in December, ALL of us would have taken every single result that he has achieved so far and guaranteed the survival he has achieved. He has had Bendtner, Ji Campbell and a woefully under prepared Wickham to utilise as forwards and quite frankly, I'm astounded he has managed to keep us up so easily given our position back on the 3rd of December.

My point is that the time to start questioning him is after he has had at least 1 or 2 transfer windows and at least a chance to bring in his own players. You may be saying you have 100% support but then to criticise him for keeping us up (his only remit for us all back in December) but not transforming us into a decent team as well is plain daft. 100% support does not include starting to find problems where they don't exist when the bloke has hardly had a time to remember the first names of every player yet. He is trying new things and looking at all his options and his appointment was all about survival and planning for next season, not about what happens in the 6 months of this one.

I'll be the first on here in 12 months time if we are still struggling to offer a critique but after 4 months, no time to prepare for a transfer window, a comfortable survival from a relegation fight and consistently some of the best goals I've seen from a Sunderland team in years, I find yours and some others criticism quite frankly embarrassing.

I guess I have come to expect much better from you in particular and some of the others on here but then everyone has the capacity to surprise and disappoint in equal measure.

You'd think MoN had been here 4 years and was still delivering these performances by the tone of them. It's ridiculous. Maybe we should start to prepare to boo him if he doesn't win all the opening 10 games of next season as well by 2 or 3 goal margins.

 

[Commachio]

And a reply from Cest..

Love owt like this...Two of the best posters on here, both with a good knowledge of the game, and both put their points across well.

 

[Nads]

But then I never said he was beyond reproach either. My point is after a mere 4 months, with a squad of players he neither assembled or targeted, he has assembled one of the best recovery acts seen in a generation.

My point is that the time to start questioning him is after he has had at least 1 or 2 transfer windows and at least a chance to bring in his own players. You may be saying you have 100% support but then to criticise him for keeping us up (his only remit for us all back in December) but not transforming us into a decent team as well is plain daft. 100% support does not include starting to find problems where they don't exist when the bloke has hardly had a time to remember the first names of every player yet. He is trying new things and looking at all his options and his appointment was all about survival and planning for next season, not about what happens in the 6 months of this one.

I'll be the first on here in 12 months time if we are still struggling to offer a critique but after 4 months, no time to prepare for a transfer window, a comfortable survival from a relegation fight and consistently some of the best goals I've seen from a Sunderland team in years, I find yours and some others criticism quite frankly embarrassing.

I guess I have come to expect much better from you in particualr and some of the others on here but then everyone has the capacity to surprise and disappoint in equal measure.

You'd think MoN had been here 4 years and was still delivering these performances by the tone of them. It's ridiculous. Maybe we should start to prepare to boo him if he doesnt win all the opening 10 games of next season as well by 2 or 3 goal margins.

You're still taking me out of context though Cest.

I've not had a pop at MON at all, merely stated that he has to take his proportion of the blame for the slump, and then re-affirmed my 100%, not even 99%, but 100% backing for him.

My very first post ended with 'i'm sure MON will get it right in the summer'.

You have simply over looked that, and now 5 statements of my 100% backing.

I worked in sales for many years, and was generally a top performer, wherever I went.

If I had a **** day, or week, I'd be asked questions of what went wrong, although there was never a doubt in my ability, or the fact it's be sorted.

This is the exact same principle.

I, and all, look forward to the best manager we've have in decades taking us forward next season, and i'm very excited at our future, that doesn't mean i'm not a bit ****ed off at no win in 8, and as a supporter of 31 years, 24 as a season ticket holder (and renewed for next year, despite living in Spain), I feel I have earned my right to ask questions.

I never critisized at any point, simply questioned the lack of motivation in the squad, and suggested MON, and everyone else, takes their share.

I guarantee MON accepts his responsibility for it.

 

[Cest Advocaat]

Anyone has the right to question the manager, whoever he is Mon but my argument is that surely has to be after that manager has at least had the opportunity to furnish the team with the players he actually wants and more than 5 months in charge. We are still suffering from the woeful Bruce era and his inept recruitment policy of buying a new team every 6 months.

That's my big grief with these posts. You unhappy because MoN cant deliver better results with Bruce's team, when i think the majority of us here acknowledge that the squad and the team are not good enough. If they were good enough, Bruce would still be here and MoN would still be a TV pundit. The reason that this is not the case is because Bruce dropped the bollocks that Martin is now picking up. He managed to squeeze maximum effort and ability out of the squad in his initial period but things have levelled out and we now see the squad for the shambles they are.

Over the past 8 games you mention, our problem on at least 5 of those games was our powder puff strikers and that's not MoN's fault its the useless previous managers inability to recruit any after he let Bent and Gyan go without a fight or plan. We could have and should have scored at least 2 maybe 3 yesterday and Campbell and Bendtner had golden opportunities to score but didn't.

You should have kept your powder dry mate until there was actually something to moan about as this makes you look reactionary rather than insightful and I had you marked down very much as the latter not the former.

Now I'm not so sure.

 

[Nads]

You're still doing it Cest!

I have not directly critisized MON, simply said he, as a man, needs to take his fair share.

You are trying to twist words to suit your argument, despite the fact that you yourself stated 'it's Bruce's **** players'.

It was Bruce's **** players that won 10 in 13 as well.

If you wanna have an opinion on me, then that's fine, but as far as I can see, and I will not back down, not even a little, I have not said anything unjustified, and I have not said anything knee jerk.

8 games is a long run, and to repeat for the 4th time, I already made clear my faith in MON and my opinion that he will get it right in summer.

You haven't even attempted to explain how the players, who were good enough 3 months back, are now **** and not MON's responsibility.

How did we forge such a run with such dross? Tell me.

You even thought the players were so good 3 months back to tell all the Mag posters we had a better squad, and of your confidence we were going to catch them.

 

[Commachio]

So the comparison in results from Bruce's 14 games (i think) to our last 14 games is?

I''ve no idea, far to lazy to go look it up.....but i bet it ain't much, despite being mainly the same players.

With that, i'll leave you two to it.....

 

[Cest Advocaat]

I am hardly going to tell mags that they are better than us am I, although it doesnt take a genius to work out their big strength is their front 2. Without Ba and Cisse they would have struggled badly this season IMO, as they dont score many from elsewhere. They have 29 goals between them out of the mags 55 in total meaning only 26 from the rest. We have 45 goals with no strikers of any note, so if we had invested in a couple of decent strikers we'd be better off too.

Thats my problem with the criticism. We were left with Bendtner, Ji, Wickham and Campbell (recovering from career threatening injury and only available since February). Sessegnon I have not considered a striker at any time. That we managed to achieve what we did was remarkable. That it has levelled out and dipped inevitable.

However, we ae never going to agree on this one as I am equally stubborn and convinced about my arguments too. Lets agree to just disagree on this one mate.

 

[Poyet's Eleven]

I went to the game and I didn't think it was that bad tbh. We were composed on the ball and were it not for catts stupidity and moment of horror defending that game would have been won by us. God knows how we didn't score in the second half but there were definitely positives from my viewpoint.


Sunderland fans were immense

 

[Nads]

I am hardly going to tell mags that they are better than us am I, although it doesnt take a genius to work out their big strength is their front 2. Without Ba and Cisse they would have struggled badly this season IMO, as they dont score many from elsewhere. They have 29 goals between them out of the mags 55 in total meaning only 26 from the rest. We have 45 goals with no strikers of any note, so if we had invested in a couple of decent strikers we'd be better off too.

Thats my problem with the criticism. We were left with Bendtner, Ji, Wickham and Campbell (recovering from career threatening injury and only available since February). Sessegnon I have not considered a striker at any time. That we managed to achieve what we did was remarkable. That it has levelled out and dipped inevitable.

However, we ae never going to agree on this one as I am equally stubborn and convinced about my arguments too. Lets agree to just disagree on this one mate.

Think that's the best marra

Now giz a smooch you harlot

 

[Cest Advocaat]

I went to the game and I didn't think it was that bad tbh. We were composed on the ball and were it not for catts stupidity and moment of horror defending that game would have been won by us. God knows how we didn't score in the second half but there were definitely positives from my viewpoint.


Sunderland fans were immense

If we had even ONE decent striker we'd have got at least a draw. I find it remarkable that we have got as high as we have with the resources available to MoN to be honest and it makes my admiration and support of him even more determined.

Given time and a bit of money he will fashion a far better squad and team AND results.

 

[Cest Advocaat]

Think that's the best marra

Now giz a smooch you harlot

Luv ya babe!!!


**** me that maybe went a bit too far. Lol

 

[Commachio]

If we had even ONE decent striker we'd have got at least a draw. I find it remarkable that we have got as high as we have with the resources available to MoN to be honest and it makes my admiration and support of him even more determined.

Given time and a bit of money he will fashion a far better squad and team AND results.

Just cos i'm a twat...

How do you think we would have done with someone of Gyans limited ability, as opposed to Bendtners?

Also do you think Campbell has it, or would you have preferred Noble to have stayed and be given a chance?

 

[Nads]

Luv ya babe!!!


**** me that maybe went a bit too far. Lol

Never too far mate , i'm easy...

 

[Nads]

Just cos i'm a twat...

How do you think we would have done with someone of Gyans limited ability, as opposed to Bendtners?

Also do you think Campbell has it, or would you have preferred Noble to have stayed and be given a chance?

I personally think Gyan would have scored around 18 in this seasons team.

That would have shifted us up about 5 places, IMO.

Campbell is a support striker, and I think we will judge him next season, the lack of pre-season caught him up after 5-6games, but there was enough in those initial games to remind us he's a decent enough player.