Off Topic Politics Thread

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Schad said:
Betfair's odds are remarkably generous to Trump, when considering his position and the current state of the economy. It's incredibly unlikely to get better, but with current polling he's probably a coin flip at best as it stands; if it gets worse, as seems an increasing possibility, he'll have a great deal of difficulty winning. It's the only issue where he does well, even though it really doesn't owe to any action on his part.
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A bad economy won't hurt Trump as badly as people think. I mean, he's already messed up the farmers bad, and they're still supporting him. And he didn't make much headway in terms of support when the economy was good. OTOH, Trump pretty much can't afford to lose any supporters given the thin margins he won by last time.

So yeah, if the economy tanks it will almost certainly cost Trump the election but I suspect it won't change the political landscape that much. People won't change their beliefs or policy stances, they'll just blame Trump for botching things. The culture war will rage on and things here will remain pretty ugly.
 
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St Badger said:
A very persuasive argument, eloquently stated.

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**** me now I understand it all. Why didn't somebody tell me this before. I am off to get my head shaved and I am going to stick two bloody great gobstoppers in my mouth so that I sound like my new found hero when I speak. Articulate and well reasoned argument will always win the day.
 
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Beddytare said:
A lot of the trouble is your mind set seems to guide you when reading reports of Racism comments. A lot of things considered racism today were not considered so a few years ago. I am not trying to defend our thinking then just that certainly in my own circles and that of my friends a lot of cross nationalities I might add. The things we used to say to each other would be considered racist and we would probably be shot at dawn for saying today. Neither African, Asian or Indian would take offence and would give back as good as they got. They could tell when someone was meaning their jibe and would deal with it accordingly. (Incidentally I was best man to an Indian wedding and an African. I also would have been to an Asian Wedding but sadly he was killed the day before his wedding) I therefore can understand why some people see and hear things that do not consider racist. It confuses the heck out of all generations and not just we oldies...........
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I get what you are saying, but as someone who had 'jokes' directed to him at school and growing up, I personally didn't find it acceptable then, I just went along with it as I had no voice. A bit like the current 'Me too' movement. Just because I didn't react to racist comments growing up, doesn't mean I wasn't offended, it just means I didn't react.

Not singling you out Beddy BTW, just putting a point across.
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I get what you are saying, but as someone who had 'jokes' directed to him at school and growing up, I personally didn't find it acceptable then, I just went along with it as I had no voice. A bit like the current 'Me too' movement. Just because I didn't react to racist comments growing up, doesn't mean I wasn't offended, it just means I didn't react.

Not singling you out Beddy BTW, just putting a point across.
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I seem to remember discussing wether what we said actually upset them at all. As I seem to remember that an argument with a stranger who heard us talking and copied our slang. Which clearly caused offence although it was more the way he said it than what he said if memory serves. I can understand how it could be deemed as racist comments, we just didn’t see it that way. If I see some of my friends sons and daughters now they will call me by my nickname as they know me by no other I don’t take offence. However if others could here our exchanges they might consider that we were racist. It’s a funny old world......
 
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Beddytare said:
I seem to remember discussing wether what we said actually upset them at all. As I seem to remember that an argument with a stranger who heard us talking and copied our slang. Which clearly caused offence although it was more the way he said it than what he said if memory serves. I can understand how it could be deemed as racist comments, we just didn’t see it that way. If I see some of my friends sons and daughters now they will call me by my nickname as they know me by no other I don’t take offence. However if others could here our exchanges they might consider that we were racist. It’s a funny old world......
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I get what you are saying but I know that in my case I laughed more often than not so I didn't stand out and was 'one of the crowd'

My brother for instance went through junior school laughing off the nickname of 'Bunny'. Being younger I didn't realise they were calling him 'jungle bunny' really. I even remember a teacher referencing it as a joke on a card to him.

You say it was acceptable then, but really was it? Was it funny? Or was it derogatory and he just had to accept it?

Again, I really am not singling you out, but I want to put to bed this myth that things have changed and it was ok back then. It really wasn't.
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I get what you are saying but I know that in my case I laughed more often than not so I didn't stand out and was 'one of the crowd'

My brother for instance went through junior school laughing off the nickname of 'Bunny'. Being younger I didn't realise they were calling him 'jungle bunny' really. I even remember a teacher referencing it as a joke on a card to him.

You say it was acceptable then, but really was it? Was it funny? Or was it derogatory and he just had to accept it?

Again, I really am not singling you out, but I want to put to bed this myth that things have changed and it was ok back then. It really wasn't.
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One of my brother's mates carried the nickname "Sooty" for years. I don't think many of the people using it (this was the 70s) were even aware of the racist connotations, but I bet he was. Shocks me to think of it now.
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I get what you are saying but I know that in my case I laughed more often than not so I didn't stand out and was 'one of the crowd'

My brother for instance went through junior school laughing off the nickname of 'Bunny'. Being younger I didn't realise they were calling him 'jungle bunny' really. I even remember a teacher referencing it as a joke on a card to him.

You say it was acceptable then, but really was it? Was it funny? Or was it derogatory and he just had to accept it?

Again, I really am not singling you out, but I want to put to bed this myth that things have changed and it was ok back then. It really wasn't.
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I am trying to understand.....unfortunately it is not possible to ask anymore if any of them felt that any of us were ever being racist. All I can quote is how I felt and the impressions they gave as to how they felt. It is true though that outside of our group some of the things we said to each other if said by others may upset us. That is until we got to know them perhaps. I am sure they like me never considered anything as being racist It was just friendly banter. I am talking about a group of 18-20 people so not just a couple of us..........When I think back though non of the banter was really bad but I suppose again its a matter of opinion.........I certainly would have hated my self if I thought anything I said would have upset them. I am as sure as can be the same could be said for them.
 
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Ehh...you can’t beat yourself up worrying about things in the past.

But you know how you can tell you are a good person and not a racist? Because as times have changed and saying certain things isn’t cool anymore... you stopped doing it.

And you know how you can tell how other people are bad and racist? They’re still saying those things.

It’s honestly just that simple.
 
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I don’t want to put words into people’s mouths, but it reads like Beddy is talking about generational racism; racism that wasn’t necessarily meant as a direct insult, but commonly used.

Now Beddy is even older than my Dad :emoticon-0110-tongu and it’s an expression I use about my Dad. He is getting better but still uses the odd phrase or expression that I have to point out to him, he shouldn’t really be saying. My wife is Chinese Jamaican and my best mate’s wife is Sri Lankan. Our parents went to the same school and they both still use expressions such as “being one of them” when talking to our wives! No insult meant, but a bit of a clumsy expression.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Ehh...you can’t beat yourself up worrying about things in the past.

But you know how you can tell you are a good person and not a racist? Because as times have changed and saying certain things isn’t cool anymore... you stopped doing it.

And you know how you can tell how other people are bad and racist? They’re still saying those things.

It’s honestly just that simple.
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To a degree, yes. That’s nearly spot on.
 
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I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Ehh...you can’t beat yourself up worrying about things in the past.
But you know how you can tell you are a good person and not a racist? Because as times have changed and saying certain things isn’t cool anymore... you stopped doing it.
And you know how you can tell how other people are bad and racist? They’re still saying those things.
It’s honestly just that simple.
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Except, some people have learnt it’s not acceptable to say certain things, but still think them

Except, humans can be unconsciously prejudiced

Interesting program in the BBC recently ...
https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/how-to-break-into-the-elite-bbc2-review-amol-rajan/
 
Beddytare said:
A lot of the trouble is your mind set seems to guide you when reading reports of Racism comments. A lot of things considered racism today were not considered so a few years ago. I am not trying to defend our thinking then just that certainly in my own circles and that of my friends a lot of cross nationalities I might add. The things we used to say to each other would be considered racist and we would probably be shot at dawn for saying today. Neither African, Asian or Indian would take offence and would give back as good as they got. They could tell when someone was meaning their jibe and would deal with it accordingly. (Incidentally I was best man to an Indian wedding and an African. I also would have been to an Asian Wedding but sadly he was killed the day before his wedding) I therefore can understand why some people see and hear things that do not consider racist. It confuses the heck out of all generations and not just we oldies...........
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I think the problem is that its what people believe that is important and not whether they use the right terminology

Some people are racist and its that simple, some people get shamed for using words they shouldn't without intending any harm
If you try and treat people the same now matter what their race then what more can you do?

With your close mates context is also important. For example if a couple of gay friends call each other "She" and "***" that's very different to a stranger doing the same
 
shoot_spiderman said:
I think the problem is that its what people believe that is important and not whether they use the right terminology

Some people are racist and its that simple, some people get shamed for using words they shouldn't without intending any harm
If you try and treat people the same now matter what their race then what more can you do?

With your close mates context is also important. For example if a couple of gay friends call each other "She" and "***" that's very different to a stranger doing the same
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Very true.............
 
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