Which Tories would one consider voting for? Ken Clarke, Nicky Morgan, Dominic Grieve {?}. As for Labour, definitely David Lammy, Diane Abbott, Ed Miliband. Definitely Diane Lucas whoever she was against. In Northern Ireland any candidate best placed to keep the DUP out. Lady Herman springs to mind. In Wales and Scotland the person with the best chance to keep the Tory out unless it was one of those I have listed. .
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Which Tories would one consider voting for? Ken Clarke, Nicky Morgan, Dominic Grieve {?}. As for Labour, definitely David Lammy, Diane Abbott, Ed Miliband. Definitely Diane Lucas whoever she was against. In Northern Ireland any candidate best placed to keep the DUP out. Lady Herman springs to mind. In Wales and Scotland the person with the best chance to keep the Tory out unless it was one of those I have listed. .
I always listen to or read about my local candidates and then put that towards my decision.
I suspect I will give you the same answer as most leavers but can't guarantee it.
The whole "while we were members" vs "because we were members" is the argument here.
You assert that this happened because we were in the EU, while a lot of leavers will say "while we were in the EU."
Yes we were in the chit. I would go as far as to admit that at that time we probably did benefit heavily from being in Europe and it probably partly saved our bacon however, that does not mean that membership is what continued to drive us on. Lots of factors in play here. The world is massively different now than it was in that era.
One example is that the late 60s/70s saw Japanese electronics appear on the market. A market dominated by the old British brands. Suddenly you had the , Pioneer, Sansui etc. I have some fine examples from the 70s that still sound better than most mid range hi fi equipment you buy today.
These things move on. The Japanese suffered a similar fate in recent years.
However I am sidetracking. While I can accept we probably did benefit early on, I could even accept that we continued to benefit for some time that does not mean that we should stay in it. Remainers are constantly banging on about leavers yearning for nostalgia yet remainers seem to be the ones that want us to remain in a block that is on the decline because it helped us when we were down.
The EU is like we were in the 70s. Parading around telling everyone they are the big boys, a massive bloc yet it is all talk. The whole of the EU (and Europe including us) is being left behind at speed by the real major markets and yet here we are grandstanding about being the Billy Bx. The EU will still be saying this iin a decade. Still trying to protect outdated models, crumbling internal infrastructure and protecting it's ruling bloc.
The EU is not going to change from that so why should we stay there. We have a chance by leaving of totally overhauling things. I have zero confidence that our business leaders or our politicians of actually doing anything to help us keep up with the world but staying in the EU is not going to help that.
there is only so long that this country can go on surviving and providing employment producing short term consumables (food) and profiteering from "legal" money laundering.
The electric car is an example. China is already way ahead and you can guarantee it will take Europe 10-20 years to even get close to a full infrastructure on this. We haven't even got broadband to some urban areas after 20 years.
China will be way ahead on 5G networks, electric cars. And we (collective remain supporters) will still be moaning about "Little Englanders" while our governments parades around pretending British is best while they stand by and do no actual advances.
This whole "EU love" is bewildering. It is a setup that does nothing other than try and protect the now. It doesn't look to the future. Will be amazing in 50 years if it survives having protected its outdated market. We can go there on holiday and remember what the 90s was like.
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You will be waiting for a long time. I am not going to tell you what will be better when it is clear our leaders will F*** up anything that should've been better. Just like they f*** up everything they should be doing while inside.
We have more of a chance of improving things if we leave. Free of that last century controlling block that is hindering progress thinking the EU is an equal to the emerging markets. Business knows that is BS and they are looking to the future while Europe lags behind constrained by protectionists and politicians (national as well) that only look at now, not the future.
Ask Chukka and Soubry!! They have been saying the same as you for over 3 years but don't seem to remember.
Maybe you have used the word "destroy" for some effect. Do you think we are trying to destroy the EU? I didn't same that option on the ballot. Do you mean "move to another stadium?"
We've already seen plenty of Japanese car manufacturers doing it and EU have been doing it before the trade deal, including the same Japanese carmakers as a 3rd party thats why there were here in the first place. For manufacturers already in Europe this just improves their margins for trading with Japan as i said.
I have no idea what Chinese electronics have to do with that conversation.
The fact is, as a nation, we have massively benefitted from the EU. Leavers can twist any argument they like to deny it, but it’s a fact:
Our economy was a lot worse before we joined it, and it has gone from strength to strength since.
We will be throwing this away for zero benefit, whilst making a bloc of 27 nations effectively an enemy in trade negotiations going forward.
The argument that the EU will hold us back trading with emerging markets is fundamentally flawed.
The EU has a population of - 500million? Common sense dictates that we will be stronger in negotiations with any emerging markets with the force of them behind us.
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the pitch being EU regulations on the building standards. He was saying it was uneven so was talking about removing them. i was asking how removing them will make other EU countries increase their building standards to match ours.
chinese electronics?
I am talking about an era pre EU membership where we went from being world leaders in a stupid amount of stuff, making virtually everything to suddenly having the Japanese market delivering electronics in.
and then comparing that event to the Japanese seeing their hold on that market suddenly impacted in more recent times.
And you are thinking about 500 million forgetting that it is only the few old hats at the top who make these decisions. These guys still think EU region is the pinnacle of the world. They are in denial while their project crumbles and creaks around them.
you're the one in denial mate. None of your arguments hold any water as their not backed up with any understanding of how business works.
Who cares if they match ours? The point is we should decide what the regulations are and we should enforce them. Not someone else decide the regulations, we bide with them (whether we agree with them or not) and then the EU not enforce them. this is not just building regulations it is everything.
what is the point of regulations if everyone is not bound to them?
We have masses of Chinese stuff with the "revered" CE mark on them. Do you really believe the CE when you see it? What is the point of a CE when you can;t believe the ink it was printed with?
Business looks to the future. The EU is all about saving what we have now. It clings on to outdated models, preaches about how powerful it is. My arguments hold up nicely. My arguments are why we won the leave vote despite the whole of the machine pushing the remain "fear of being alone" message.
Wasn't my argument but our economy relies on common standards in many things. But again thats economics which you seem to have no understanding of.
I'm fine with common standards. You are mixing up several things maybe because we are both being skewed by our different opinions. What good are common standards if they aren't common?
This is a wonderful article, which perfectly sums up my viewpoint. Please read it Imps, id love to know your thoughts on it?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2016/06/28/the-eu-is-broken/#762b6d5cd8b2
Yes, there are problems with the EU, but the alternatives are all worse, and will persist after we leave.
The leave vote will do nothing to halt the global elite wreaking havoc on the poor. People have been completely misguided in voting to leave.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2016/06/28/the-eu-is-broken/#762b6d5cd8b2
Yes, there are problems with the EU, but the alternatives are all worse, and will persist after we leave.
The leave vote will do nothing to halt the global elite wreaking havoc on the poor. People have been completely misguided in voting to leave.
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Broken link. says "about:blank"
We do agree on one thing though as you have stated there. The global elite wreaking havoc on the poor.
That doesnt actually apply to the UK as its talking about the Eurozone, but this is one of these things i'm talking about when i said we're doing things out of order. we don't really have the integration yet for a unified currency and so can't correct the problems that arrive from multiple countries with one currency.