Off Topic Politics Thread

[VocalMinority]

The EU are telling us UK leaving won’t affect them a anyway. !!

The EU have told us many ways it will affect them !! Theyve even come up with advise and plans for EU companies.

You accuse me of making things up yet you present a picture where Japanese companies might build in the EU to export rather than in Japan as a realistic thing. Great selling point? Do you actually believe that this is going to happen?

No I didn't. 3rd party countries or EU countries building in the EU to export to Japan and EU at the same time. Japanese countries doing the same in Japan.

 

[Osvaldorama]

“Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community in 1973 as the sick man of Europe. By the late 1960s, France, West Germany and Italy — the three founder members closest in size to the UK — produced more per person than it did and the gap grew larger every year. Between 1958, when the EEC was set up, and Britain’s entry in 1973, gross domestic product per head rose 95 per cent in these three countries compared with only 50 per cent in Britain. After becoming an EEC member, Britain slowly began to catch up. Gross domestic product per person has grown faster than Italy, Germany and France in the more than 40 years since. By 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965.”

The above is from the FT article I shared above.

Leave voters, do you agree or disagree that the EU has massively benefitted our country/economy?

Not to mention the opt-outs and incentives we already have as part of THE BETTER DEAL WE ALREADY BENEFIT FROM WITH THE EU.

Other countries look at our current deal with envy. And we are flushing it because of a few xenophobes.

I get more distraught about it the closer it gets.

 

[VocalMinority]

The EU are telling us UK leaving won’t affect them a anyway. !!

And because it's fun. Here's the Brexit Muppet the Dutch have created to be it's Brexit fallout mascot

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ur-brexit-is-a-big-blue-monster-say-the-dutch

You must log in or register to see images

 

[rednright]

“Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community in 1973 as the sick man of Europe. By the late 1960s, France, West Germany and Italy — the three founder members closest in size to the UK — produced more per person than it did and the gap grew larger every year. Between 1958, when the EEC was set up, and Britain’s entry in 1973, gross domestic product per head rose 95 per cent in these three countries compared with only 50 per cent in Britain. After becoming an EEC member, Britain slowly began to catch up. Gross domestic product per person has grown faster than Italy, Germany and France in the more than 40 years since. By 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965.”

The above is from the FT article I shared above.

Leave voters, do you agree or disagree that the EU has massively benefitted our country/economy?

Not to mention the opt-outs and incentives we already have as part of THE BETTER DEAL WE ALREADY BENEFIT FROM WITH THE EU.

Other countries look at our current deal with envy. And we are flushing it because of a few xenophobes.

I get more distraught about it the closer it gets.

Exactly why it's a shame that we left an entirely economic union to meddle in a United states of Europe project.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Exactly why it's a shame that we left an entirely economic union to meddle in a United states of Europe project.

Don’t let facts get in the way of your daily mail rhetoric

 

[rednright]

Don’t let facts get in the way of your daily mail rhetoric

I subscribe to the guardian actually....true. I don't subscribe to the view that you are what you read.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I subscribe to the guardian actually....true. I don't subscribe to the view that you are what you read.

I wish I could subscribe to the same view, unfortunately I have seen first hand that the poison of the mail/sun/express can distort seemingly intelligent individuals into making ridiculous statements and decisions (not just limited to brexit)

 

[Archers Road]

OJEU regulations

Which ones, specifically?

Do you work in the building industry? Would you like it to be unregulated? Do you think it ever will be, even under the most fundamentalist Tory government?

 

[rednright]

Don't get me wrong clearly there's a lot I read in the guardian I disagree with but most of the articles are pretty good. Owen Jones is a bit of a w$$$er though. I do balance it out with an occasional pass through of the daily telegraph.

 

[San Tejón]

If this is what the new Independent Party believes, why the **** did those eight join/stay with the Labour Party in the first place? Surely their beliefs are more conservative than labour.

You must log in or register to see media

 

[rednright]

Which ones, specifically?

Do you work in the building industry? Would you like it to be unregulated? Do you think it ever will be, even under the most fundamentalist Tory government?

I work with European procurement major projects in govt. and continually see examples of other countries flouting the regs whilst we steadfastly adhere to them. To be fair the Germans also abide by them on the whole. The level playing field is a bit like Yeovils pitch if you have ever been.

 

[rednright]

I work with European procurement major projects in govt. and continually see examples of other countries flouting the regs whilst we steadfastly adhere to them. To be fair the Germans also abide by them on the whole. The level playing field is a bit like Yeovils pitch if you have ever been.

Sorry forgot to add that our construction industry standards (along with din) are the highest in Europe.

 

[fatletiss]

I work with European procurement major projects in govt. and continually see examples of other countries flouting the regs whilst we steadfastly adhere to them. To be fair the Germans also abide by them on the whole. The level playing field is a bit like Yeovils pitch if you have ever been.

They don’t play on a slope anymore and haven’t done so for years.

There is some irony in your use of that example.

 

[San Tejón]

I wish I could subscribe to the same view, unfortunately I have seen first hand that the poison of the mail/sun/express can distort seemingly intelligent individuals into making ridiculous statements and decisions (not just limited to brexit)

I think this is particularly correct when the readers rely wholly on the paper for their political news.
I have tried making this point before, but if you read a paper that, day after day, prints negative stories about one political party and/or person, whilst printing positive stories about the opposite political party and/or person it will have an impact on the thoughts of the reader. Especially if they believe that the paper they are reading is presenting things in an honest and neutral manner.
The group most at risk for being duped by the papers, IMO, are the most elderly. Those that have had the most years of exposure to the paper’s way of presenting “facts” whilst being the least likely to use the internet to get a different perspective.
My dad was a perfect example of this, constantly condemning labour for something his paper had reported, but what later turned out to be a distortion of the truth, when looked at from a neutral angle.

 

[fatletiss]

So people are now trying to say the Japan deal is good (I'm not arguing there) yet trying to pin the effects of that deal down to Brexit and not the deal itself?

These car manufacturers would have made these decisions anyway because there is no point in them investing in the EU (as someone seems to think above) because in 7 or so years time they will be able to ship their product in without tariffs.

Why invest heavily in the EU (or UK) if they don't need to invest any longer to gain access?

In Honda's case they "only" sold 125k cars to the EU last year (including us.) A perfect storm of it being a declining market for them as well as the move to electrification + the Japan deal means that they have to decide massive future investment now to turn their cars electric. Do they make them in a part of the world they are declining in sales even when they don;t need to build them anymore? or do they focus on where the market is (or is going to be?) US and China?

They can serve the EU market from Japan while investing in China/US.

Like Beddy. I voted out because of layers and layers of politicians/governments/intranational bodies riding roughshod over real people's lives and just saying "modernity, pfft." This is no excuse to cover for them treating people like commodities and driving wholesale migration for no other reason that to keep lab our prices down.

That the EU itself is a stubborn group of very differing countries, all resistant to waking up to the modern world, all trying to defend an outdated creaking product (as a whole) trying to depend on digital money moving around to survive within an organisation that absolutely refuses to change is enough for me without any particular politicians and their dreams of federalisation.

There is no point banging on about FTAs or globalisation being a good thing within Europe yet then try and pillory Brexiteers who want to develop UK specific FTAs.

The Japan FTA is good? Then stop going on about Japanese car manufacturers in the UK because that FTA is the main driver of that not Brexit.

Defending a block that talks about the future yet is so focused on protecting and continuing an outdated and failing base of industries within its block is crazy. The fact that it is a block at war with each other's ideals yet a body above talks about unity is even more ridiculous.

I've never said we would see an immediate boost we might never get to where economists "say we would have been" but in 10 years time we will be better than what we see happening to the EU in 10 year's time because they will still be trying to pretend they are the future and they will still be trying to compete with the world with their outdated practices.

I've been made redundant twice in my lifetime. Both times from the last time this problem hit us. When our outdated engineering industries drew their last breaths in the mid nineties. And then when a family business grew massively but failed to move on from being a family business.

This is what I see now in Europe. An outdated model that refuses to accept that they are outdated. Relies on nice spiel. Drives people to migrate to lower costs and sells it as being a great thing for people. Nothing to do with people all to do with £/$. And has got to the point where it's refusal to accept the model is broken that it relies almost solely now and low cost consumables and theoretical money moving around.

The EU will collapse on itself in the next 2 decades and while they will still be crowing about unity, solidarity and how "powerful" they are we will have a head start. A head start that hopefully (not that I am convinced) will give us a head start to properly sort this country to be able to compete in the modern world.

This is why there is such a power grab going on for banking and financial services. Because the whole of the EU will have nothing else but "legal" money laundering to earn from if it continues to think it is the billy big B****x.

All this talk of leavers dreaming of Empire is a totally ironic projection from EU supporters that bang on about the EU being this great trading block when it is failing. They will still be spieling out the same BS when the EU "empire" is crumbling and about to crash.

I’m still waiting for someone like you to tell me some things that will be better for us. I’m keen to know because we are leaving, genuinely, however on here and other media, I’m yet to hear one. Not one.

Surely someone can tell me. Please?

 

[VocalMinority]

I work with European procurement major projects in govt. and continually see examples of other countries flouting the regs whilst we steadfastly adhere to them. To be fair the Germans also abide by them on the whole. The level playing field is a bit like Yeovils pitch if you have ever been.

Sorry forgot to add that our construction industry standards (along with din) are the highest in Europe.

So rather than fix the pitch, you would rather destroy it? Have it even easier for EU nation's to lower it's standards to get a competitive advantage?

Or are you wanting to lower our standards to match them?

 

[Beddy]

And because it's fun. Here's the Brexit Muppet the Dutch have created to be it's Brexit fallout mascot

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ur-brexit-is-a-big-blue-monster-say-the-dutch

You must log in or register to see images

......And yet they are also one of the other nations that are considering pulling out.

 

[fatletiss]

......And yet they are also one of the other nations that are considering pulling out.

They were, not sure they are now.

 

[Beef]

This new party...... Sorry I mean group seem a lot like the old parties....

Fine with racism.....and austerity

 

[rednright]

They don’t play on a slope anymore and haven’t done so for years.

There is some irony in your use of that example.

Thanks for the update flt, I didn't realise...thought i'd try a footballing analogy and failed!