Off Topic Politics Thread

[Osvaldorama]

Why do you keep replying to him? I am really curious how you can accept the anti-European rhetoric without pushback. He knows full well we all want peace, but uses this right wing talking point that it is peace Trump’s way or we have WW3. What happened to telling Putin to get out of Ukraine’s lands? What happened to treating leaders with respect?

The disingenuous hard right are all about this left/right divide. It is the core of their beings. But this issue now isn’t about the difference between centre left and right. It is about decency and democratic values. It is about a man so foul he saves the Tate brothers and crucifies Zelensky.

And this guy you respond to is so deep in his well of hate that he cannot even say Trump got this wrong.

As usual you are getting emotional and thinking that reality is a Hollywood movie.

Everything that you are saying is the sort of thing a child says. Adults and politicians have to negotiate their way out of difficult situations

 

[......loading......]

Because as an adult, to a degree I don’t like to give up on people. Because not everything Os says is wrong (a lot of it is, but there are nuggets of sense). Because I’m not tribal in my views. Because I welcome discussion. Because even if on here he reverts to win/lose binary thinking, perhaps some of the more sensibly presented views drip feed in.

I think he is totally blinkered and sees the world in a way that should horrify any sane thinker. A nugget of sense is all you need to justify a mountain of rage-induced nonsense. And that is what he is. An angry child, latching on to some of the worst people alive today.

 

[......loading......]

As usual you are getting emotional and thinking that reality is a Hollywood movie.

Everything that you are saying is the sort of thing a child says. Adults and politicians have to negotiate their way out of difficult situations

Mate, please do not reply to me anymore. I don’t talk to people like you.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I think he is totally blinkered and sees the world in a way that should horrify any sane thinker. A nugget of sense is all you need to justify a mountain of rage-induced nonsense. And that is what he is. An angry child, latching on to some of the worst people alive today.

I assure you, you seem just as insane to me.

“worst people alive today” shows how fried your brain is from propaganda imo.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

It seemed from the discussion yesterday that Zelensky would rather keep things going.
Some simple steps that he could take; he refuses. An election, for one.

Trump doesn’t want to be a war-time President, especially a war he doesn’t think is necessary or good for business, Trump wants to usher in an AI Golden Age, send rockets to Mars, and American living standards to the moon; a 21st Century tycoon economy.

He wants peace for Ukraine and Russia as he knows that thousands are senselessly dying every week, and knows his presidency and the country cannot cope with hundreds of Americans coming home in body bags every month.

And so he wanted to make a deal with Zelenskyy, make a deal with Russia, and America gets paid, it's a crude outcome but its aligned with reality.

But Zelenskyy doesn’t want that, he wants American men and weapons to win the war and make Russia to pay, while the EU have gassed him up to believe this possible because the EU are clinging to this war as a chance to project the veneer of power that they cannot possibly muster domestically due Populist parties eroding their authority at home.

However, as Trump asked Keir to much nervous laughter, can you take on Russia alone?

America knows without them the EU cannot continue this charade, but more than that the Americans are disgusted with the EU, they view them as a drunk Uncle that has run out of goodwill.

How they are supressing the free-speech of their citizens, failing to protect their own borders, yet grandstanding off the back of the US defence budget?

Don’t agree much on this. He said he’d have an election once the war had ended; which is fair enough. You can’t realistically have an election whilst a war is on - for starters you’re immediately discounting the votes of the military on the front lines, because they’re kinda busy. So I think that’s a non starter.

He’s not rejected anything - he went yesterday with the mind to sign the rare earths deal and begin a ceasefire. But he wasn’t willing to do that without security guarantees, again which is fair. I’m sure he’d love to “win the war” (whatever that means) but the main thing for everyone, and which he wanted, was to stop the killing.

Vance put paid to all of that with his hyena behaviour.

 

[......loading......]

Don’t agree much on this. He said he’d have an election once the war had ended; which is fair enough. You can’t realistically have an election whilst a war is on - for starters you’re immediately discounting the votes of the military on the front lines, because they’re kinda busy. So I think that’s a non starter.

He’s not rejected anything - he went yesterday with the mind to sign the rare earths deal and begin a ceasefire. But he wasn’t willing to do that without security guarantees, again which is fair. I’m sure he’d love to “win the war” (whatever that means) but the main thing for everyone, and which he wanted, was to stop the killing.

Vance put paid to all of that with his hyena behaviour.

He also was the one who suggested the mineral deal. Which some people seem to strategically leave out of the conversation.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I think he is totally blinkered and sees the world in a way that should horrify any sane thinker. A nugget of sense is all you need to justify a mountain of rage-induced nonsense. And that is what he is. An angry child, latching on to some of the worst people alive today.

I think he probably is blinkered, and that he’s been radicalised by too much time looking at silly nonsense on X. But as I say, I’d rather try and discuss things sensibly and not give up. Plus there are some nuggets of truth around. It has limits, but there we are.

Plus, in fairness to Os, some of the hand wringing responses from the “other side” (which shows you how ridiculous the whole thing is) can be equally daft at times.

 

[......loading......]

I think he probably is blinkered, and that he’s been radicalised by too much time looking at silly nonsense on X. But as I say, I’d rather try and discuss things sensibly and not give up. Plus there are some nuggets of truth around. It has limits, but there we are.

I will put it this way. I had one grandfather who fought against fascism and one who fought for it. The one who fought for it spoke a lot like Os his whole life. You could not beat the Hitler out of him.

You won’t beat it out of Os either.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I will put it this way. I had one grandfather who fought against fascism and one who fought for it. The one who fought for it spoke a lot like Os his whole life. You could not beat the Hitler out of him.

You won’t beat it out of Os either.

You must log in or register to see images

You’re doing it again

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I will put it this way. I had one grandfather who fought against fascism and one who fought for it. The one who fought for it spoke a lot like Os his whole life. You could not beat the Hitler out of him.

You won’t beat it out of Os either.

I don’t want to beat anything out of anyone. There’ll be times I can’t be arsed, but usually I’d rather talk to someone than desert them entirely.

 

[......loading......]

I don’t want to beat anything out of anyone. There’ll be times I can’t be arsed, but usually I’d rather talk to someone than desert them entirely.

Ok, that is noble. But I think Os is much further gone than you think.

 

[ImpSaint]

Forget the money. Trump does not understand morality and most other countries know that supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do

And doing a deal that gets US troops into Ukraine to "protect US interests" avoids the whole "NATO troops" problem!

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Ok, that is noble. But I think Os is much further gone than you think.

Maybe so. Who knows. I’d rather have a beer in a pub for these things than pontificate online, where everyone behaves a bit stupidly, but here we are.

 

[......loading......]

And doing a deal that gets US troops into Ukraine to "protect US interests" avoids the whole "NATO troops" problem!

Only if Trump can’t negotiate the same deal with Putin. If he can, what difference does it make?

 

[Osvaldorama]

Ok, that is noble. But I think Os is much further gone than you think.

You do make me laugh.

My views are nowhere near “far right” or “fascist”. I’m not even anti immigration. My family is also not from the UK. So you spout absolute waffle

 

[......loading......]

Maybe so. Who knows. I’d rather have a beer in a pub for these things than pontificate online, where everyone behaves a bit stupidly, but here we are.

I need a beer after all this. This has been a terrible 24 hours.

 

[......loading......]

You must log in or register to see images

You’re doing it again

I have asked you not to reply to me again. I don’t want to get banned for telling you what you are.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I need a beer after all this. This has been a terrible 24 hours.

Funnily enough, though I agree it’s not been an edifying spectacle, there’s opportunity for someone like Starmer to come in as mediator and put the UK in a strong position. Regardless of that working or not, he can also use this as a way of building stronger ties with Europe too.

Suspect it’ll be Meloni that steps up though.

 

[......loading......]

Funnily enough, though I agree it’s not been an edifying spectacle, there’s opportunity for someone like Starmer to come in as mediator and put the UK in a strong position. Regardless of that working or not, he can also use this as a way of building stronger ties with Europe too.

Suspect it’ll be Meloni that steps up though.

We need to get back in the EU and consolidate our power. Russia will always be a threat.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

We need to get back in the EU and consolidate our power. Russia will always be a threat.

That’s kind of what I’m getting at - we can kind of negotiate a shadow version, if everyone is adult about it.