Pirelli still thinking

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BrightLampShade

BrightLampShade

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Feb 14, 2011
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Pirelli have continued to press their thoughts on teams sitting out Q3. Their qualifying tyre idea was thrown out but with 4 drivers sitting out Q3 on Saturday they've come up with a new, very simple idea.

Pirelli has toyed with the idea of qualifying tyres to solve the problem, but such a move was rejected by F1 teams.

Now, Hembery says, the focus will be on tweaking the sporting regulations to ensure there is no benefit to cars skipping Q3. One solution could be that those cars that sit out the final session of qualifying will have to start the race on the same set of tyres that they used in Q2.

"You can solve it instantly by regulation change without increasing costs or anything, so we will have proposals for that," added Hembery. "That might be what we need to do next year and, maybe for 2013, move towards something different just to give the sport something new.
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Seems fair and simple to me, do any members have any other ideas? Or do they believe that it is unfair to force drivers out in Q3?
 
Quite simply: 5 place grid penalty if they dont set a time, unless they have some sort of problem on their car (Like damage or broken gearbox etc)
 
BrightLampShade said:
Seems fair and simple to me, do any members have any other ideas? Or do they believe that it is unfair to force drivers out in Q3?
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The rule about starting on the tyres you qualify on is ridiculous. Scrap that and let teams sit out if they want, does anyone really care about the battle for eighth between Schumacher and the two Force Indias?
 
I like the Pirelli idea, although it would widen the gap between the midfield and the front runners.

Currently, most races Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren get both drivers through Q2 on prime tyres, whilst the rest of the field are usually forced to use options. Potentially 4 drivers get through Q2 on soft tyres. If they choose to sit out Q3, they get free tyre choice meaning they can have fresh options and run a longer first stint, when the most ground is to be made, or mix up their strategy slightly, which gets them closer to the front 3 teams. If they are forced to start on their Q2 tyres, that removes the first stint advantage, and they have no extra option tyres for the race anyway.

We might end up with a situation where Mercedes, Force India, Sauber, whoever, decide which tyres they want to start the race on, and then crawl round the track, taking as little life out of the tyres as possible, to get the tyres they want to start the race on (No 107% rule in Q3 at the moment). This could be potentially dangerous, and is more likely to increase the chances of ruining the lap of someone with a genuine shot at pole.

I think the problem with a Quali tyre is that it would behave differently to the option and prime, and the teams would have little previous data on it. The set up could be completely different, which would make maxing the performance available tricky (although I guess that plays into the hands of the likes of Hamilton, rather than Button). Whilst they could be given a few sets of Quali tyres for free practice, working out the best set-up for the Quali tyres means less time spent on race set-up, and it would also really increase costs of tyres. If Quali tyres only gave one lap of maximum grip, then the teams would need 4, 5 or even more sets per driver to generate data that was even remotely meaningful.
 
AbsolutelyGlorious said:
The rule about starting on the tyres you qualify on is ridiculous. Scrap that and let teams sit out if they want, does anyone really care about the battle for eighth between Schumacher and the two Force Indias?
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1 - Yes, I care about what happens all the way to the back of the grid.

2 - People pay a lot of money to go to a Grand Prix. It's a bit insulting to the fans if a team chooses not to compete in Q3. It would be like a football team forfeiting a match because they want to save their players for the next game.
 
BrightLampShade said:
I wonder what Q3 will be like in India since the tyre choice will be the wrong way round...

Pirelli to make soft tyres the primes for India - full story
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That's not so much making the softs the prime, as giving them an extra set, the best performance will surely still come from the softs? I also think teams should be forced to compete in Q3, and really go for it. I think the best thing would be to scrap the rule on starting on your Q3 tyres, as thats really only why they do it. Maybe giving the teams an extra set of tyres purely for Q3 would help too?
 
DHCanary said:
That's not so much making the softs the prime, as giving them an extra set, the best performance will surely still come from the softs? I also think teams should be forced to compete in Q3, and really go for it. I think the best thing would be to scrap the rule on starting on your Q3 tyres, as thats really only why they do it. Maybe giving the teams an extra set of tyres purely for Q3 would help too?
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They're giving them one more soft and taking away one hard, but yes, they're basically justi giving them a(4) free soft tyre :)
 
I want to go back to my (silly?) suggestions of months ago. I find this mad Quali routine even madder now tyres can be exploited when you are not going for say the top6 Grid positions. All 24 cars have to set times during a 30 minutes session. Top 6 (?) decided on times go into a hat to decide Grid order. Positions 7-12 decided on times go into a hat to decide Grid order. Bottom 12(?) have to set times in another 15 minute session.
 
I'd like to have the old qualify system back. Where you qualified by the best time you set during any of the practice sessions. That would both solve this problem and bring great excitement through all sessions.
 
As I've said before, something needs to be done about this, so I'm glad Pirelli are trying to come up with a solution. Perhaps the simplest answer is just to make everyone or no-one use the tyres they qualify on, then this ridiculous situation of cars not setting a time shouldn't happen.
 
The trouble is the income is assisted by takings on FP1, 2 and 3. You might have to re-arrange how that worked. We have suggested FP3 becoming the final quali session. And introduction of a session for driver number 3s etc to show what they can do - maybe limited to the slowest 14 (?) cars with a supply of fresh tyres. This would help develop the slower cars.
 
I dont see how you can use Quali tyres - Cost, Enviro, Car Set up etc........

Best way to prevent any Dikin around in Q3 is to introduce a % cut off, probably somewhere around 103%. It would force all the cars to compete and would make the split grid work, at the moment you could potentially have just the first 6 cars on softs and the rest of the grid on prime as opposed to the top 10 on softs and a mixture for the rest of the grid - I dont think Bernie thought that would be the way it would trun out?
 
AbsolutelyGlorious said:
The rule about starting on the tyres you qualify on is ridiculous. Scrap that and let teams sit out if they want, does anyone really care about the battle for eighth between Schumacher and the two Force Indias?
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Does anyone really care?

Of course they do! Have you been to a Grand Prix and wanted more action when teams were simply waiting in the pits? Yes! I care! Westy does. Others do. Bernie does. Sponsors do; and even Pirelli !! Indeed; almost* everyone cares.

*In fact this comment of yours AG, is the first I've seen or heard of that expresses a different view!
 
let everyone start the race on whatever tyre they wish, be it old, new, scrubbed, prime or option. Anyone who sets a flying lap gets a set of the tyre they used in Q3.
 
I dont mind that people sit out Q3 it can make the different race strategies much more interesting.

But IMO the only reason for a team to sit out Q3 is to benefit them in the race, the reason to do this is because the race is where the points are and the points mean prizes (£££s)

As such attach some constructors points or something to Qually, or create a new 3rd points ranking system that the prize money gets dished out on at the end of the year.

OR you could just give all the people in Q3 an extra set of tyres?
 
<steam>

Just scrap the stupid rule where you start on the tyres you qualify on. It's one of the most ******ed rules ever proposed. The four people sitting out Q3 would at least run a set of primes in Q3 if they didn't have to then start the race on the bloody things. It's stupid, it's unfair and it spoils the show, why do they persist with it. <grr>
 
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