Off Topic Paris Attacks !

[Deleted #]

I checked under the fridge but no joy

Seriously though, I'm not religious but am happy for people to believe what they want to believe - there are no rights or wrongs until we die and see is there.

BUT what exactly have you found in your search?

Nothing he can prove (I stand to be corrected of course)

I'm going off on a tangent here, but not long ago, maybe one month or so, I watched a programme that was visiting Muslim communities regarding the issue of mental health. The general consensus within that community is that Mental health results from a lack of faith and/or people's sins. How the hell can a community ever progress with mankind with idiotic views like that?

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Nothing he can prove (I stand to be corrected of course)

I'm going off on a tangent here, but not long ago, maybe one month or so, I watched a programme that was visiting Muslim communities regarding the issue of mental health. The general consensus within that community is that Mental health results from a lack of faith and/or people's sins. How the hell can a community ever progress with mankind with idiotic views like that?

Yeah, something similar was said after the Boxing Day tsunami a decade ago, but don't level that idiocy just at Islam. There's ****ers prepared to climb on the mountains of corpses after a natural disaster from all faiths.

 

[Deleted #]

Yeah, something similar was said after the Boxing Day tsunami a decade ago, but don't level that idiocy just at Islam. There's ****ers prepared to climb on the mountains of corpses after a natural disaster from all faiths.

Not sure what that has to do with mental health...


Anyways, I was only talking about what I watched. In general I know there's still a stigma regarding mental health, however, the majority of people are now more accepting and understanding of this. It seemed like it was the full Muslim community on this programme that looked down their noses on mental health.

 

[Tobes]

Sky news is the exact same interview as the CNN one. Wonder who's actual interview it is?

French TV would be my guess

 

[luvgonzo]

But that's their right mate. we should respect the individuals right to follow their creed of choice, but atheists have just as much right to call bullshit on the entire spectrum of religion. People take the criticism of their religion personally, when it's not an attack on them, merely their belief system.

I think people have a right to pass comment and argue points and as you say even call the whole system to question but there has been some mocking of individuals and that was the point I'm making.

 

[UnitedinRed]

You wrote name of a biographer no evidence again talking bollocks with no proof.



Again talking bollocks as Muslims were required to pay a percentage of tax towards the social up keeping as part of the religion and because non-Muslims were not part of the faith they had to agree to pay towards the social up keep.


Again please provide evidence not just your words!


Don't trivialise things to try and make your point valid.


Muslims already pay tax in this country as per law so there isn't a need for a separate taxation system. See my previous answers to your rants.


I have provided sources and evidence from non-Muslims who do say its great, yet you constantly contradict yourself with no evidence!


Really, where is the evidence for all this? you talk the talk but not walk the walk!

I am still waiting for you to show me this watered down version of Quran and where I can get one from as well as you claimed! Talk is cheap with no action or evidence!

Jews and Christians were Dhimmi, correct?

This is a second class law system where Muslims were superior in every aspect. The Jews and Christians were tolerated as long as they paid taxes to exist and didn't disturb Muslims, ever.

Similar in many ways to segregation in the US, apartheid, slavery, Hitlers Germany before the mass slaughter and other religious and racial class systems.

This second class citizen system employed throughout Islam didn't exist I am guessing.

Denial, a common trait of the believer.

 

[UnitedinRed]

This is from another poster I thought it was quite good and if generally the big arguments between religious people and non-religious people.

In a mother’s womb were two babies. One asked the other:
“Do you believe in life after delivery?” The other replied, “Why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later.”
“Nonsense” said the first. “There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be?”
The second said, “I don’t know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can’t understand now.”
The first replied, “That is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths? Ridiculous! The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.”
The second insisted, “Well I think there is something and maybe it’s different than it is here. Maybe we won’t need this physical cord anymore.”
The first replied, “Nonsense. And moreover if there is life, then why has no one has ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere.”
“Well, I don’t know,” said the second, “but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us.”
The first replied “Mother? You actually believe in Mother? That’s laughable. If Mother exists then where is She now?”
The second said, “She is all around us. We are surrounded by her. We are of Her. It is in Her that we live. Without Her this world would not and could not exist.”
Said the first: “Well I don’t see Her, so it is only logical that She doesn’t exist.”
To which the second replied, “Sometimes, when you’re in silence and you focus and you really listen, you can perceive Her presence, and you can hear Her loving voice, calling down from above.”

No mate, its poor.

The mother exists. It's indisputable.

Its an unforgivable plot hole in your lovely tale.

I do hope she was a married woman too. Otherwise there could be trouble, and shame.

 

[UnitedinRed]

I think people have a right to pass comment and argue points and as you say even call the whole system to question but there has been some mocking of individuals and that was the point I'm making.

Mocking of what individuals?

 

[UnitedinRed]

And you knew this before you were born I guess

You didn't get the point I was trying to make?

Really?

Who did you believe in before you were "convinced" by others? While still in the womb?

 

[luvgonzo]

Mocking of what individuals?

The mocking of certain idividuals beliefs other than the discussion and possible mocking of a system that you disagree with or find ridiculous.

 

[UnitedinRed]

The concept is the complete opposite, you may well have a point on the way it has been warped by "evil men" but the concept of any religion is peace and love and a way of humanity living together and respecting each other. If people took the base of religion and acctually applied what it says instead of interpreting it into what they want, the world would be a better place. It's also daft (imo) to say we'd be better off without religion as it would just be replaced by something else and the nature of man would warp that new system to suit his needs.

Religion is in no way a peaceful concept or ideology.

Its prime message is you are under survailence constantly, any mistakes will be punished for eternity, suffering. The chosen few, who live by the rules set before them, will go to heaven.

Using fear to control and gain power.

Of course when some religions realised how insane they sounded, they added bits and bats over the years, removed bits, rewrote bits.

In one religions case, they just wrote a second book, almost entirely contradicting the first.

Morals, care, love. All the good, it didn't come from religion. It came from man.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

Jews and Christians were Dhimmi, correct?

This is a second class law system where Muslims were superior in every aspect. The Jews and Christians were tolerated as long as they paid taxes to exist and didn't disturb Muslims, ever.

Similar in many ways to segregation in the US, apartheid, slavery, Hitlers Germany before the mass slaughter and other religious and racial class systems.

This second class citizen system employed throughout Islam didn't exist I am guessing.

Denial, a common trait of the believer.

Yeah, and Catholics being treated as second class citizens by the "British" in Ireland/Northern Ireland didn't exist.

No vote and no jobs for for companies owned by Protestant employers, no wonder the civil rights movement came into being over there.

 

[UnitedinRed]

The mocking of certain idividuals beliefs other than the discussion and possible mocking of a system that you disagree with or find ridiculous.

No individual has been mocked. Some have acted as if they have but that's very different. People like to be outraged.

Mocking a system? Where? Unless its deserved. Like mocking any system that promotes segregation.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Yeah, and Catholics being treated as second class citizens by the "British" in Ireland/Northern Ireland didn't exist.

No vote and no jobs for for companies owned by Protestant employers, no wonder the civil rights movement came into being over there.

Bellend. Who is talking about the ****ing Irish?

Feel free to start a thread. Catholics and Protestants have a disgusting and disturbing history full of pain and suffering.

 

[Highburyal]

Jews and Christians were Dhimmi, correct?

This is a second class law system where Muslims were superior in every aspect. The Jews and Christians were tolerated as long as they paid taxes to exist and didn't disturb Muslims, ever.

Similar in many ways to segregation in the US, apartheid, slavery, Hitlers Germany before the mass slaughter and other religious and racial class systems.

This second class citizen system employed throughout Islam didn't exist I am guessing.

Denial, a common trait of the believer.

So again you pick bits that suit you and ignore the questions and points, lets clear some of your prejudiced views, although I don't it will make any difference.

I would say when you use a word please explain what it means otherwise there a lot of people here who probably never heard of it or know the true meaning of the word and people like you spread these deliberately to create discontent!

Definition of Dhimmi - The word literally mean "Protected Person"
They had their rights fully protected within their own communities. As citizens of the Islamic state they paid Jizya tax, which basically complemented the Islamic tax (Zakat) that Muslims had to pay, otherwise they were equal in every other aspects.

They had their own laws they abided by, whether be biblical or Halakhic. However they never made the legal distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims, they were all equal.

 

[luvgonzo]

I love people with Google knowledge (not talking about the last post) it far outweighs real knowledge and means you dont have to study anything or have any real opinions you can just copy and paste your opinion it takes away all the thinking, we should all give it a try and pretend that we're really clever.

 

[PINKIE]

There's a big difference between religion and spirituality in my opinion. You don't need the former to have the latter. You don't need a God to understand a higher purpose. You don't need religion to have a moral code or need a Diety to tell you the difference between right and wrong. (although these have these been the aims of religion to convince people otherwise)

 

[UnitedinRed]

So again you pick bits that suit you and ignore the questions and points, lets clear some of your prejudiced views, although I don't it will make any difference.

I would say when you use a word please explain what it means otherwise there a lot of people here who probably never heard of it or know the true meaning of the word and people like you spread these deliberately to create discontent!

Definition of Dhimmi - The word literally mean "Protected Person"
They had their rights fully protected within their own communities. As citizens of the Islamic state they paid Jizya tax, which basically complemented the Islamic tax (Zakat) that Muslims had to pay, otherwise they were equal in every other aspects.

They had their own laws they abided by, whether be biblical or Halakhic. However they never made the legal distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims, they were all equal.

Oh. Really.

Let's see shall we.

First of all, Zakat is a donation. It is not a tax. Jews and Christians were subject to a poll tax and a head tax under Muslim rule.

Jews were permitted, as long as they toed the line. For example, when burying their dead, they were permitted to have a funeral as long as the local Muslims didn't hear their grief. Same with Christians. Both were made to wear identifying clothing or badges (blue for Christians, yellow for Jews) so the Muslim rulers could spot them easily. When bathing, Jews had to wear a chain around their neck so to appear different from the superior muslims.

The myth that Jews thrived under Islamic rule is down to a few individual success stories. Many many more lived lives under a dictatorship.

Jews did have their own laws, however their laws were overruled, without exception by Islamic law. So they didn't really have any laws as such.

Jews and other faiths were at the whim of whoever was in charge of their region and the attitudes of the Muslim residents. Attitudes which were often negative. Yes, a handful thrived and gained positions of power, even within Islamic rule but most were peasants living under oppression.

Next time you try and do a rebuttal, do t use charitable donations, this was not forced like the tax levied on non Muslims. Failure to pay Jizya removed any protection afforded to the non Muslims.

Sounds like the Mafia, don't you think?

 

[UnitedinRed]

I love people with Google knowledge (not talking about the last post) it far outweighs real knowledge and means you dont have to study anything or have any real opinions you can just copy and paste your opinion it takes away all the thinking, we should all give it a try and pretend that we're really clever.

You are aware of where believers get all their information from aren't you?

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Non Muslims paid more than Muslims for sure. Its why, prior to 20th century, they had all left for Europe, or stayed and converted (Palestinians).

However, when you compare it to how Europe has handled people of different religions throughout most of history. Islamic nations have traditionally been MUCH more tolerant of other religions than European nations have.