LOL extremism much? Id hope you wouldn't love your wife either if she started exploiting slavery and/or children. I'm not sure the concept of unconditional love is meant to cover that sort of thing. I think you just ruined the legacy of a few million wedding vows, making unconditional love seem like a bad thing.
My wife (of over 30 years) told me that she thought I loved Arsenal more than her. I told her I loved Spurs more than her......your point?
Which Arsenal fan on here has said that they dont love or dont support Arsenal any more? You seem to be arguing against things no one is saying. You don't necessarily need to agree with everything your partner does to love them either. If you have an argument then you dont love her any more? Hope that works out for you.
I didn't say it was about love - I was likening support to love. Love is weakened by being conditional, and so is support. This started when someone wrote that they only support Arsenal when they do what they think is best for the club. I said that conditional support is like conditional love. A weaker version of the original.
I didn't say it was about love - I was likening support to love. Love is weakened by being conditional, and so is support. This started when someone wrote that they only support Arsenal when they agree with what the club is doing. I said that conditional support is like conditional love. A weaker version of the original. I really can't tell if you guys are deliberately misunderstanding what I am saying, or if my writing is bad, so you can't follow my train of thought. It doesn't seem to me that I am making outrageous claims. I'm not conforming to popular belief, but I'm not saying anything completely nutty either like it seems to me you guys keep trying to pretend I do. I am just saying that the support for the club isn't going to be as good, if half the fans are always not supporting the club, because the manager isn't doing what those fans think is right.
Well unconditional support isn't really helpful all the time either. Woman: Hey honey, I have decided to take up Heroine! Man: Way to go Hun, I back you all the way. I just think fans are entitled to have their voices be heard, since, ya know, they pay for the club. It wouldn't exist without the fans. I have seen clubs disagree with fan bases before or try to win them around, Arsenals board seems to have contempt and total disregard for its fans at times. It is really baffling.
This reductio ad absurdum argument all the time is really tiring. Don't you have another trick? Are you really likening a wife taking heroin, to a manager making legitimate decisions that are part of his job? And I think you should research the meaning of the word "entitled". "A legal right or a just claim to receive or do something."? Really? If you think that - take it to court.
Another trick? Better reductio ad absudium than retardio ad nauseum. Stop using pseudo psycho babble and just have a normal conversation yeah? You feel that Arsene is doing great and that everyone should just shut up and let him get on with it, that is fine, but people are entitled, yes entitled, to voice their opinions, even if they arent the same as yours... Odd i know. Take it to court? ffs we are having a conversation on a forum.
You did. Unless of course you consider yourself infallible and have a perfect judgement of what is best for the club and what is detrimental? Did you not realize that what is best for the club and what is detrimental Is just your opinion?
Everything said, by anyone, is their opinion. Do they need to add that caveat into the sentence every time they speak so you don't think they are quoting a fact? You should be able to understand it is their own opinion by virtue of the fact that they said it. Or does every one around you start each sentence with "In my opinion......" before they talk to you?
So in your eyes those two statements are equivalent? And you wonder why quite a few posters on here ridicule what you say?
More importantly you said that you don't support what is detrimental to the club. In fact you asked why would anyone support what is detrimental to the club. detrimental = obviously harmful. You have said that you don't support things that are detrimental to the club, therefore You don't support things that you believe are obviously harmful to the club, therefore You only support things that are obviously beneficial to the club, therefore You only support things that are best for the club. Are you a child, or is English your second language? I actually went to the opinion thing, because I thought you were going to quibble about the "Obvious" bit in the definition of detrimental. I didn't think you were headed to the Monty Python, "No I'm not" argument.
A lot of words without a point. I'll just say it outright... no they're not the same. Supporting things that have an effect on a club is different to supporting a club outright. I will always support Arsenal (unless they carry out despicable acts). I will also be in favour of and support actions that are good for the club. I will not support those actions I deem harmful or detrimental. Complaining about something does not equal not supporting the entire club you buffoon. You presumably will support anything to do with the club, detrimental or not. No idea why but your choice to do that if you wish. But if you do, you really to stop being surprised when people post on here saying they think you write twaddle.
Who he thinks are detrimental to the club, I suppose like the owner, manager, or half the players. Which goes back to my original point, his support ain't worth crap. Want to go round again? So I support Arsenal to be part of something. I don't have a large family, I don't really have a country, I am not religious, and I like to think for myself so I don't tend to affiliate to political groups because I hate the long list of things I automatically sign up to when I do that. Invariably, I don't agree with them all. But there is nothing that I have to sign up to, that is truly despicable with a football club. I can just say I support the club and that is it. I resent the fans that want to subdivide the support into pro-Wenger or Anti-Wenger or anything else. I didn't sign up for that. I just want the experience of joining people who have a common love for Arsenal. Not just part of it, not just when Arsenal are winning, all of it. And I support them whether I agree with what they are doing or not, because belonging is the most important thing. I want them to win, but win or lose, I get what I want out of the club. I don't want to walk into a group of Arsenal fans, and get asked, "Are your pro or Anti-Wenger" to see whether I am accepted by them. I guess that is what it is like to support a smaller club that hardly ever wins trophies. Winning is great, but it isn't the most important thing to me. And you guys are ****ing with the stuff I think IS important, at least to me it is.
You all DO have a common love for Arsenal. Arsene Wenger is not Arsenal, TT. I see where you are coming from, but the man is divisive, there is nothing anyone can do about that. I couldn't just blindly support actions taken by my club that I see as detrimental, in fact in the past I have complained a great deal when Roman sacked Ancelotti or forced Jose to buy Shevchenko. Like I said, just because you love a club or person, does not mean you have to blindly support every single move they make or that you cannot have a contrary opinion. This is only ever going to stop when Kroenke and Wenger leave. They are not good for your club and are holding it back. This is a few shared by most football fans these days, and I dare say most Arsenal fans too now. I have nothing invested in this, infact Kroenke and Wenger are good for Chelsea, because they all but ensure that a potential rival is hamstrung and not able to fill its full potential. I always said I fear the day that Arsenal get a decent board and manager, because all the ingredients are there for the club to dominate. You have a high turnover, no debt, a big stadium, a big fanbase and are financially secure, but luckily for us rival fans, you have Wenger and Kroenke acting as your albatross.
Well that is the difference between us. I trust Wenger is doing what he thinks is right to the best of his ability. I certainly don't have either the expertise or the knowledge of the club's circumstances to be able to even judge his decisions accurately. Half the time we don't even know what is true or false in the newspapers. Most of the people I see criticising Wenger, I wouldn't trust to tie their own bootlaces, let alone manage a football club. And a lot of others, like yourself have either a questionable viewpoint, or questionable motives. It worries me when a rival fan advocating division in Arsenal support, gets more likes than an Arsenal fan preaching solidarity. That seems messed up to me. There is no reason why Wenger should be divisive, any more than Ozil should be divisive. A fan can have a different opinion on the worth of a player or manager, that happens at clubs all the time. But what is unusual is that the fans should divide so easily at Arsenal into such vitriolic, polarized factions. That isn't the fault of the manager. As I tried to point out, there is no end to this division. Even if Wenger left, the focus would immediately shift to Kronke or Gazardis, and then if the new manager doesn't perform, to that new manager. It will not stop with Wenger leaving. It is the fundamental point that we have established in this thread. That Arsenal fans are the type that only support the club, if the club do what they want the club to do. And it isn't even about winning. The FA cup wins did NOTHING to reduce the division. The fans are get a thrill out of being correct about their negative predictions, or the success of their faction of the fans, than they do out of the team winning. As soon as we do win, that win is instantly devalued. The FA cup isn't a real trophy, the opposition played badly, and so on. That isn't normal. This is more about Arsenal fans just being very easy to divide, because as a club our support has grown very quickly relatively recently, during the Wenger era. A lot of the fans chose Arsenal not because of any family tradition, or affinity to the club, but solely because they were winning. Our support is far more like the support for a political party than a football club. People think that they can somehow change the policies of the club, or vote for a change of leader, which is ridiculous. That just isn't the deal, as any Chelsea fan understands. A lot of Arsenal fans just don't know how to support a football club, or what to expect from a football club. The division at Arsenal is about the fans, not the club. Look at Newcastle. Here is a club run horrifically badly, with an appalling record for winning, yet the fans are more united than we are. They are divided a bit, but not to the extent we are at Arsenal. And they haven't won 3 trophies in 4 years. The Arsenal division is more like the division in the US Democrats over Saunders and Clinton. Look over the Atlantic, the Boston Red Socks (before recently), Toronto Maple Leafs, teams that have gone years without winning anything, and they have some of the most loyal, passionate and large groups of supporters. Supporting a sports team isn't about winning, or losing, or whether you think the manager is good. It is about being a fan, with other fans, and belonging.
The fans are only ALL United at Newcastle because they all agree that Mike Ashley is a **** rag and the club would be better off without him. Its not just new Arsenal fans that want Wenger out, I have spoken to 60 year olds who were going to Highbury long before most of us here were born who think the club is being mismanaged and a change is required. To tell football fans that they are only feeling this way because they "don't know how to support a football club" is pretty condescending mate, I don't think that will go over very well if you start spouting that.
