Our next manager

[Shwan71]

I've got no problem with Ole staying to the end of the season by the way, but no chance beyond that.

As for always changing players, what Ole has done is buy well and get rid of some ****. Any new manager would simply have to do the same. I don't see any manager not being able use Maguire, James and Wan Bissaka.

Ole could be allowed to buy a CM and loan a striker (Zlatan, even though he's just turned 38!) in January with minimal risk.

I have problems with him staying ..
let us bring Pochettino now ..
we have Winter transfer to sort team out ..
we did that mistake last season and waited and look where we are now?
OLE should had been sacked by end of season
the team need 2-3 transfers from a manger who will stay to build team he want .. every transfer period will be a missing opportunity to progress.
OLE want a counter side team and all 3 strikers he linked with are fast with little to offer in term of scoring goals for us which is our main problem

 

[Diego]

I have problems with him staying ..
let us bring Pochettino now ..
we have Winter transfer to sort team out ..
we did that mistake last season and waited and look where we are now?
OLE should had been sacked by end of season
the team need 2-3 transfers from a manger who will stay to build team he want .. every transfer period will be a missing opportunity to progress.
OLE want a counter side team and all 3 strikers he linked with are fast with little to offer in term of scoring goals for us which is our main problem

Would that be the Pochettino that had very good team and has completely lost the dressing room, the one who's team have just shipped 10 goals in 2 games after spending far more than Ole in the last window, the one that has had 5 years to build a team/squad?

 

[cytrax]

There are obviously major structural problems at the club. So much money has been wasted over the past six years with nothing to show for it.

It will be too easy to suggest that the current crop of players from the midfield to the front are not up to standard, but there is evidence to suggest Ole's system has dramatically contributed to our demise in creative output.

Poch needs time out too with Spurs being pants since Feb and I don't know if this is the right time to go for him. I keep saying we should go for Brendan but I can imagine that the fans will start crying that he isn't good enough for the great club - sentiment that obviously doesn't align with the reality of what he has accomplished in his career, his age and what he is currently doing. I say go for him and ditch Ole now. It will be far easier getting him than Poch from Levy.

Allegri is available, but I want to see someone that will continue to build the team around strong home players than bringing in bunch of continental mercenaries that eventually lead to problems of overzealous drive to want to go to MADRID and BARCA. If there is reassurance that he will stay on track with the current building process, then he will be my first choice. I rate chances of this happening by January at 70%.

 

[cytrax]

Would that be the Pochettino that had very good team and has completely lost the dressing room, the one who's team have just shipped 10 goals in 2 games after spending far more than Ole in the last window, the one that has had 5 years to build a team/squad?

EXACTLY! I'm not sure what the obsession is with Poch. Spurs are a joke in-spite of their good players. They almost threw away 4th place if not for the fact that Ole was even worse than they were. I do not want Poch.

As for saying we can't keep changing managers... Yes we can! We can keep doing it until we get the right one. Until then, we need to be brave to cut our loss if the win rate after 18 games justifies it. We should never give them full season because it ends as another wasted season.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Keep Ole and give him a minimum of twelve full seasons, we cant keep changing managers, ideas and players every two years

Fixed.

 

[Diego]

Fixed.

 

[luvgonzo]

Looking from the outside you have a manager who understands the ethos of the club, does he have the required tactical and man management skills to get you to where you need to be?

I don't think he does, so do you sack him? I would say no as who do you get in? You're better off with someone who understands the club until a top manager who suits your club becomes available.

 

[glazerfodder]

We are so far behind the trend in terms of our club structure and our attitudes to team management. A DOF to keep Woodward from meddling and seeking 'value' instead of 'worth' each transfer is our priority and Van der Sar seems to be the stand-out candidate for me having been successful in both youth development and transfer dealings with Ajax ( I would have said Ole would have been a good fit for the role, but he's toast)

As far as manager selection is concerned, we seem to be stuck in a rut of looking for the next long-term thing, but that model is history, there will never be a club anywhere, that keeps their manager as long as we kept SAF. All of the top sides in Spain, Italy, Germany, (plus both decent clubs in France) keep hold of their manager for four or five years at the most, usually it's a shorter period. We need to re-establish our identity with a DOF and then find the manager that fits our model, rather than keep getting managers in that try to change the style of play to their preferences. We have a building job to do, so we need a manger with proven experience, someone who is used to dealing with all the prima-donnas and gets the most out of players. If we get someone in and it doesn't work out - get rid, it will only cost £20m and you can't buy crap for that these days, so in financial terms, changing manager (instead of players/playing style) is the cheapest thing to do. Personally I would go for Allegri, Tuchel or Anchelotti. I have been a long-term advocate for Poch but I think his limitations have been exposed, so possibly we have dodged a bullet.

 

[cytrax]

Spot on, Glazerfodder! Your post sums up all the structural issues that I alluded to. Think about how long it is taking us to find a football director. Right at the top of the club, we are paralysed when it comes to making footballing decisions. Look at all the midfielders that we were linked to in the summer, yet only James came in due to the fact that there was no resistance to getting him.

This is why I'm somewhat conscious of simply expecting a change of manager to immediately change our fortunes. Ole messed up badly in not developing a plan to fix a decimated midfield when he knew way before hand that he was going to let go of senior players. That's his lack of experience of running a club this size.

We are now two points above relegation after 8 games. I think that it will be a massive gamble to think that we will not be saddled with relegation struggles if we keep Ole in charge until end of season. Therefore, only option left is to cut our loss. But for a club that couldn't make decisions when we had time and leverages, they are probably even more fked thinking this through.

 

[Chief]

If we sack Ole now, we 'end up' with a manager that might not be the right man.

That could be a knee jerk reaction to what is happening at Spurs and we end up with Poch. We could also end up Allegri, who is a decent manager and could work.

What I would favour us doing is seeing out the season and 'recruit' the new manager during that time. So that when Ole leaves at the end of the season, the absolute right man is already agreed and ready to.

That might seem harsh and underhand on Ole but that's life, he won't have done too badly out of the whole experience. The priority is getting the right person in place.

Personally, I think Simeone is one who could be up for it and not be too fazed by the job. He'd take no **** either, from any side be that players or Woodward. He also has a defined way of playing and would stick to that.

 

[cytrax]

Simone, Chief? Don't get me wrong, I think that he's one heck of a manager. But looking at how we have heckled Jose for playing defensive football, do you think fans will now embrace Simone's philosophy?

The irony when facts are presented is that it thumps perception. Under Jose, we actually scored lots of goals, especially in his first season. We think Ole understands "United's way", yet can't even buy goals needed.

I'd say this in defense of Ole; I think that if we can get three players in January - 2 midfielders and a striker, I think the team is not that far off from becoming competitive. The fact that the goal difference is still positive is a very good sign that we can build upon. I really like the defensive backline but the midfield is pants.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Spot on, Glazerfodder! Your post sums up all the structural issues that I alluded to. Think about how long it is taking us to find a football director. Right at the top of the club, we are paralysed when it comes to making footballing decisions. Look at all the midfielders that we were linked to in the summer, yet only James came in due to the fact that there was no resistance to getting him.

This is why I'm somewhat conscious of simply expecting a change of manager to immediately change our fortunes. Ole messed up badly in not developing a plan to fix a decimated midfield when he knew way before hand that he was going to let go of senior players. That's his lack of experience of running a club this size.

We are now two points above relegation after 8 games. I think that it will be a massive gamble to think that we will not be saddled with relegation struggles if we keep Ole in charge until end of season. Therefore, only option left is to cut our loss. But for a club that couldn't make decisions when we had time and leverages, they are probably even more fked thinking this through.

Don't be hysterical. You could well miss out on top four, or even top six, but you'd still be one of, if not the biggest team in the world in terms of commercial finance. That's your conundrum - the worst that can happen to you is to be rich and mid-table, but still getting richer. It would terrify me if United had a fan buyout and be run like Barcelona.

 

[cytrax]

Don't be hysterical. You could well miss out on top four, or even top six, but you'd still be one of, if not the biggest team in the world in terms of commercial finance. That's your conundrum - the worst that can happen to you is to be rich and mid-table, but still getting richer. It would terrify me if United had a fan buyout and be run like Barcelona.

That is a lag indicator. If we continue to remain irrelevant on the field, off field will eventually reflect it.

Lead indicator is success on the pitch, followed by off-field income.

 

[Christiansmith]

Don't be hysterical. You could well miss out on top four, or even top six, but you'd still be one of, if not the biggest team in the world in terms of commercial finance. That's your conundrum - the worst that can happen to you is to be rich and mid-table, but still getting richer. It would terrify me if United had a fan buyout and be run like Barcelona.

Spot on. We will defo miss 6th place this season. In fact we may be flirting with relegation at some point.

Ole seems to have lost his way and the missing and injured key players do not help. We have got rid of many experienced players and we are playing academy players. But we have to give him some time.

What are we ****ing waiting for to appoint a DOF? This was supposed to happen 2 or more years ago. Our squad is the youngest and least experienced of the premiership and as soon as players like Martial and Pogba are injured we suffer the consequences. Rashford and Lingard seem to be going backwards instead of pushing on.

Just because we are the richest club in the premiership (and probably Europe) do not give us the right to beat any other smaller club. Our team is currently poor so no surprise it is drawing or getting beat.

I would say let's give him at least until the end of the seaon and see where we are at. If we are no further from having a good SQUAD (not only first team) then yes we need a new manager.

The last 2 Spurs matches (and even the last City defeat) showed how the margin between victory and defeat is small. The manager we coveted so much suffers 2 consecutive humiliating defeats and accused of having lost the dressing room. So is he the top manager we want or not?

 

[Christiansmith]

That is a lag indicator. If we continue to remain irrelevant on the field, off field will eventually reflect it.

Lead indicator is success on the pitch, followed by off-field income.

That's the paradox. The success of United off the field do not really mirror the sucess (or lack of it) on it. When United was relegated in the 70s they had more global support than before. When we went into decline after Fergie left we went up a notch in terms of global support and finance.

You could say that the more Woodward buys expensive players like Pogba and Sanchez and Maguire the more he keeps the club and the company financially at the top as the publicity increases the global interest and the sponsorships. But that does not necessarily mean it is good for the team on the pitch.

AND re Pogba: how many people said we overpaid for him and that he was worth only a half of that money. I remember saying that whatever we paid for him Woodward will get his money back. In terms of publicity, sponsorship and marketing he's repaid that price several fold and also because of his age we could sell him at an even higher price.

 

[glazerfodder]

The thing I don't understand is that all our financial success is directly related to success on the pitch - just look at our Adidas sponsorship, by failing to qualify for the CL again this season we stand to lose £25m in payments from Adidas, the same as last year. Add those losses to the loss in CL prize money (at even a modest tier, say QF) that's another £20m. We are also coming to the end of many of our partnership/sponsorship deals and, while many will renew because of the cachet of the club, they won't be paying top-dollar any more. My point is this - each season that we perform badly on the pitch costs us approximately £75m - yet still Woodward resists in the transfer market. It cannot be more obvious, especially to a money-man, that we need to keep investing.in the squad.

Look at the top four - RM €303, Atletico Madrid (not including their new stadium €243, Barca €237, and Juve €151.- that's why these clubs are successful. Woodward has to go or step back into his bean-counter office, close the door and get on with what he is obviously good at. The football side has to be under the control of a DOF as soon as we can get the right man in.

 

[Chief]

Simone, Chief? Don't get me wrong, I think that he's one heck of a manager. But looking at how we have heckled Jose for playing defensive football, do you think fans will now embrace Simone's philosophy?

The irony when facts are presented is that it thumps perception. Under Jose, we actually scored lots of goals, especially in his first season. We think Ole understands "United's way", yet can't even buy goals needed.

I'd say this in defense of Ole; I think that if we can get three players in January - 2 midfielders and a striker, I think the team is not that far off from becoming competitive. The fact that the goal difference is still positive is a very good sign that we can build upon. I really like the defensive backline but the midfield is pants.

Jose didn't go because he played defensive football, he went because his attitude changed and we stopped winning. He reverted to type in stating his players and the whole atmosphere was horrible.

As you correctly point out, he was good first season and his style of football was no different.

Simeone plays successful football, that's the bottom line. Atletico are hardly boring.

 

[glazerfodder]

Just to put our present situation in some context - this

'United are two points above the relegation zone. It is unlikely, but not impossible, they could be in it after the ninth round of matches has been completed. The last time they were in the bottom three after more than a single game was 1992-93, when they were 20th (out of 22) after three matches. They went on to win the title that season. No-one is seriously contemplating that outcome at the end of this campaign.

The PL trophy isn't given out in October for a reason.

 

[cytrax]

That's the paradox. The success of United off the field do not really mirror the sucess (or lack of it) on it. When United was relegated in the 70s they had more global support than before. When we went into decline after Fergie left we went up a notch in terms of global support and finance.

You could say that the more Woodward buys expensive players like Pogba and Sanchez and Maguire the more he keeps the club and the company financially at the top as the publicity increases the global interest and the sponsorships. But that does not necessarily mean it is good for the team on the pitch.

AND re Pogba: how many people said we overpaid for him and that he was worth only a half of that money. I remember saying that whatever we paid for him Woodward will get his money back. In terms of publicity, sponsorship and marketing he's repaid that price several fold and also because of his age we could sell him at an even higher price.

There is no paradox here, CS. Success on the pitch gave us the best leverage when we were negotiating. To think that we can continue to never qualify for Champions League and enjoy the same massive deals is false and the terms of the contracts actually induce penalties if we don't make top six. No paradox whatsoever!

Like I said before, earnings is a lag indicator. It is not a precursor to how well we would negotiate into the future if we stay in mid table. Surely we are not that arrogant to think the rules are different for us because we are that special.

As for Pogba, it's all a useless spectacle. If he had been as good on the pitch, the returns would have been even more astonishing. Just because someone colours their hair and make useless social media videos is not a justification of their price tag. That is exactly the crux of our problems since Fergie left. We have placed more value on spectacle than substance.

Overall, the signals are clear.. The club is poorly managed and if we think we are too big to fail, we will eventually fail. Complacency should never be allowed at this great club.

 

[Christiansmith]

There is no paradox here, CS. Success on the pitch gave us the best leverage when we were negotiating. To think that we can continue to never qualify for Champions League and enjoy the same massive deals is false and the terms of the contracts actually induce penalties if we don't make top six. No paradox whatsoever!

Like I said before, earnings is a lag indicator. It is not a precursor to how well we would negotiate into the future if we stay in mid table. Surely we are not that arrogant to think the rules are different for us because we are that special.

As for Pogba, it's all a useless spectacle. If he had been as good on the pitch, the returns would have been even more astonishing. Just because someone colours their hair and make useless social media videos is not a justification of their price tag. That is exactly the crux of our problems since Fergie left. We have placed more value on spectacle than substance.

Overall, the signals are clear.. The club is poorly managed and if we think we are too big to fail, we will eventually fail. Complacency should never be allowed at this great club.

This period is as dangerous as we've had in the last 30 years. We have had a period of drift recently but now if we are not careful we will fall off the cliff.

As long as the club is making massive profits Woodward and the GGs couldn't care less about the team or squad or the performances on the pitch.

The match against the RS could be pivotal. A bad defeat could make Ole 's position untenable.