Oliver Holt of The Mirror

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Yid Vicious said:
The history makes a huge difference. If you can show me a time in history where fat people were persecuted and treated as second class citizens purely because they are fat, I might be inclined to agree.

I'll admit as far as racist abuse goes, it's certainly less overt than some other things I've heard from fans at games before.
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Honest question, is Yid Vicious P C ?
 
Lucaaas said:
It's not a name, but I don't see why saying "Black bastard/twat" is any different to calling someone a "Scouse bastard", "Gay ****" or "Cockney twat". You're still being derogatory about someone's heritage, personality or culture.

Look at this tweet from Reuben Hazell (Shrewsbury FC player) who was condemning the alleged racial abuse of Tom Adeyemi last night:



So homophobia is acceptable but racism isn't? It seems to me like Hazell and his ilk aren't interested in kicking prejudice out of football at all, they just bandwagon on the latest media craze because they want some positive PR (or maybe just any PR at all)

Will there be any fines or 8 match bans handed out by the FA for this? No, because Sepp Blatter hasn't made any comment on homophobia and it isn't popular to jump on the anti-homophobia bandwagon yet.
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The FA can't charge him by the same law as Suarez as it's not on the pitch. However I'd have thought something could've been done about this too, I assume the FA like me had never heard of this guy before let alone what he's writing on Twitter.
 
Chippy minton said:
I fully agree - which is why i said "calling someone black is a little more than calling them fat" Perhaps i should have said worse but I meant the same thing anyway.
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This is why we should be careful what we write, and also how we read it. I'm sure some people thought you'd written "calling someone black is little more than calling them fat" which obviously has an entirely different meaning to what you did write.
 
Chippy minton said:
I can't produce any evidence as it hasn't happened - which is why i said that although factually speaking racist abuse is a form of name calling it's worse than calling them fat. I agree with pretty much everything you've said on this thread <ok>
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I think the tone of my reply didn't come across as intended, it looks a bit patronising reading it back.

As I said, that was not the intention, I remember having a good discussion with you before on the Suarez thread <ok>
 
saintanton said:
This is why we should be careful what we write, and also how we read it. I'm sure some people thought you'd written "calling someone black is little more than calling them fat" which obviously has an entirely different meaning to what you did write.
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Yes I know - must admit I was a bit shocked at the reaction but it will teach me <laugh>
 
Yid Vicious said:
The FA can't charge him by the same law as Suarez as it's not on the pitch. However I'd have thought something could've been done about this too, I assume the FA like me had never heard of this guy before let alone what he's writing on Twitter.
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You'd hope something would be done about it by the FA. I won't hold my breath though as there simply isn't a campaign against homophobia in the media at the moment. Had Blatter made his comments about homophobia instead of racism? Then there'd be a huge stink kicked up by the FA.
 
Lucaaas said:
You'd hope something would be done about it by the FA. I won't hold my breath though as there simply isn't a campaign against homophobia in the media at the moment. Had Blatter made his comments about homophobia instead of racism? Then there'd be a huge stink kicked up by the FA.
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He said something similarly stupid about gay fans going to Qatar for the World Cup. Homosexuality is illegal in Qatar so he suggested that gays should simply not be gay while they're there, or something along those lines. I remember a lot of gay rights groups were incensed and politicians too but I can't remember what the FA did, if anything.
 
Lucaaas said:
Jewish is a religion isn't it, not a race? I'm not sure on that mind. (I assume you are talking about Jewish people being gassed)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3873323.stm

Don't current hate laws cover people's religion?

'Sikhs and Jews already have full protection from incitement because the courts regard them as distinct races. But Christians, Muslims and others have not been given the same protection because they do not constitute a single ethnic block. Northern Ireland has its own laws to deal with sectarian discrimination between Protestants and Catholics.'
 
Yid Vicious said:
He said something similarly stupid about gay fans going to Qatar for the World Cup. Homosexuality is illegal in Qatar so he suggested that gays should simply not be gay while they're there, or something along those lines. I remember a lot of gay rights groups were incensed and politicians too but I can't remember what the FA did, if anything.
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Ahh yeah, I remember that now <ok> I suppose the fact the Terry and Suarez incidents were around the time of his comments made the FA more determined to make a stand against racism, even if the punishment wasn't entirely fair.

Boffo said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3873323.stm

Don't current hate laws cover people's religion?

'Sikhs and Jews already have full protection from incitement because the courts regard them as distinct races. But Christians, Muslims and others have not been given the same protection because they do not constitute a single ethnic block. Northern Ireland has its own laws to deal with sectarian discrimination between Protestants and Catholics.'
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Interesting mate, thanks <ok>
 
And I think this is the problem with making words or names illegal based on historical abuses of power. The events under western colonialism are no more horrific & shameful than under ceaser or genghis Kahn. We accept our ancestors part in it, attempt to design a society with true equality to improve upon it. But when does it just become "history" you can't create a law to give extra protection to an individual purely because their ancestor had bad things happen to them under a different cruder society.

As a truly EQUAL society we have decide which is more important:

freedom of speech & expression including the freedom to insult & be insulted?

Or

We as a society say all name calling is an abuse of another person and should be sanctioned:

Ginger
Black
Yellow
Fat
Add your own expletive :all have the original intent to single out & hurt an individual. The fact that victims attempted to own words & make them friendlier does not take away from it.
We say that nobody can comment on another individual:

Now I think option 2 is impossible.

There is already a law to protect anyone from excessive verbal abuse. There was already a law that protected a person from having their rights & opportunities impinged based purely on any of the above. We should not raise one part of the community above others with regards to protection from insult this in itself is culturally divisive & produces the illogical inconsistencies we have seen in these discussions.

We as individuals can decide if we want to associate with a person who expresses ANY negative views about others;(this has actually already been shown in these discussions)

Edited to fix illogical sentence
 
theHotHead said:
OP - if you are representative of Liverpool fans then I feel very sad for you all.

But .. something tells me you are definitely a minority. Instead of fanning the flames and trying to defend the indefensible why not show a little humility. You were spot on until your last paragraph and made yourself look like a childish oaf.

This is what happens when you give everyone and their stupid opinions access to the internet.
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One fan doesn't represent a whole fanbase, we all have different opinions.

Canary Rob said:
Did you see it? I was watching on an Internet feed and have seen the photos. He's hardly blubbering into the ground. He looked emotional and angry, and a little bit knackered. Hardly streaming down his face.

But all that doesn't matter. It's irrelevant how well/badly he took it and it doesn't reflect well to try and criticise him, wasn't his fault he got abused



There are various conflicting stories. Apparently witness statements have been taken, some saying it was racist, others not. Obviously the fan who actually said aching is going to say it was Manc. Doesn't matter til the inquest. Fan will probably get banned to make an example of him because the FA are like that. Obviously thats justice if he was actually racist
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I saw it on a feed, and I agree with you with that he wasn't blubbering but was upset and angry. Either way rasicm is out of order and shouldn't be tollerated, everyone takes things differently. Just hope they find the person that said it and they arrest him for it.

t doesn't look good on us as a team either... that certain "fan" has made this look ten times worse for us, especially with this whole Suarez thing going on!...
 
Lucaaas said:
Jewish is a religion isn't it, not a race? I'm not sure on that mind. (I assume you are talking about Jewish people being gassed)
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Jewish is the religion that turns anti-racism into a religion.

Oliver Holt knows how the system works. Slagging off your fans is just misdirection.
 
<laugh> I suppose according to Oliver Holt that "black bastard" is now definitely racist and disgusting*

*Unless you are called John Terry because he wrote his biography and wouldn't want to get on his wrong side*
 
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