Nottingham........
- Thread starter Redprintt
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50,100 excess deaths in 2017/18 which we could have had in 2020 possibly more who's to know!!, if we have now 60,000 that doesn't leave much space just for Covid victims........I'm not misunderstanding..........they just don't add up making 44,000 dying of covid.........With or of......that is the problem
You keep claiming you understand but you clearly don't mate.
No it's not! This is why we measure excess deaths! To answer that exact question.
I genuinely don't know how else to explain it. You can debate the 43,000 figure as to dying with Covid or of it absolutely. Some doctors may have got it wrong. That is absolutely up for debate.
But the 60,000 figure you cannot dispute. That happened. We have had 60,000 more deaths than you would usually expect since March, which not only beats but obliterates your record that you posted earlier. Based on that, unless something else happened in March that we don't know about, you can assume MOST (but definitely not all) of those 60,000 excess deaths were probably Covid.
I'm not saying there isn't a virus, I'm saying the figures for Covid is BS........You could have terminal cancer but also have Covid.........It's known as a covid death....which in my eyes is BS..Why don't they do that for flu as well?
Right. Hopefully this helps mate.
If that happens and you're 'misdiagnosed' shall we say, you're right, it could be part of the 43,000, and it could be incorrect. This has undoubtedly happened.
But the 60,000 excess deaths have happened. This is a statistical fact. They're just deaths of all causes above the average. No doctors to misdiagnose, no reasoning at all, just the fact that above usual numbers we'd expect, we've had 60,000 more than usual in the last 6 months, obliterating previous records.
So (speaking very basically here) if you had terminal cancer, the stats say that it wouldn't be counted as part of the 60,000 excess deaths. It wouldn't be an excess death, because you'd have died anyway, right? So where did those 60,000 deaths come from?
Some will be a natural rise I'm sure. Some will be suicide, some will be lack of treatment from the NHS. There will be many reasons.
But the fact is, most of them will be Covid, because they only began rising in March. This is why the actual number of deaths is actually probably lots more than 43,000.
Even if doctors are misdiagnosing, the opposite is also happening. There are clearly deaths that are down to Covid that aren't being counted as such.
But they have included that death as excess and so it wouldn't be if it was Cancer..
If you died of Kidney failure but had covid you would then be classified in the excess death rate.....utter bollocks!
44,000 deaths are part of there excess figures.....and I don't believe it and so I don't believe there are 60,000 excess deaths
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No they haven't. This is where you're totally misunderstanding and that's what makes the rest of your post wrong.
No one "decides" that a death is excess. It's not down to a doctor. It's simply the statistical fact that we've had 60,000 more deaths than average. That's it. No further information at all. No one looks at a death and says, right that one is excess.
So if you died of kidney failure with covid, you'd count as the 'official' 43,000, but because (statistically speaking) you'd have died of kidney failure anyway, the maths show you wouldn't be counted as the 60,000. You'd have died anyway, it wasn't excess.
So where else did those 60,000 since March come from if not Covid?
You are not getting it mate.
The 44,000 people that we have been told died of covid is part of the 60,000 excess deaths that we are told....so if one is a lie then both figures are lies.
The majority of the Covid deaths REPORTED are from people that had underlying health conditions, many of them serious i.e Heart, Kidney failure, COPD respiratory issues etc. Many of them would have died from their complications anyway.....but because they tested positive, they have become a covid statistic and an excess death. This would not have been the case if they died of Kidney failure but had the flu virus..it would NOT have been an excess death as it would have been down to kidney failure......I hope this explains it to you in simple terms!!
Anyone with a brain can work this out to be nonsense.... ......As you well know, plenty of people have been tested positive and didn't know they even had it.....Like flu, it usually affects the weak and vulnerable causing complications...
I am not gullible to believe that everything they tell us are facts.... Figures can be juggled to suit the argument.......Just need to see through it!!
NB. I've also heard reports that a high percentage of people that has had the flu jab tested positive for Covid....mmmm interesting!!
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Oh. My. God.
Yes.
For the last time, no. They have become a Covid statistic but NOT an excess death.
If they'd have died anyway this year, how can they possibly be excess?
Imagine 100 people die every year, guaranteed, but this year we suddenly have 120 die, so 20 excess deaths.
If my grandad dies with cancer and covid, yes he will count as a Covid statistic, as he tested positive. But he will not count as an excess death. He would have died anyway. He would (statistically speaking) have been one of the 100 that died every year. So how can it possibly be excess?
Remember, a doctor doesn't choose whether a death is excess. There's no causality. It's merely the fact that we've had lots more deaths than usual. That's what makes them excess. No one can explain why based purely on numbers.
If not Covid, what do you think caused the 60,000 deaths above average (i.e. excess) that we have seen since March?
With the greatest respect, you clearly don't understand stats, or how this works. I've even dumbed it down massively, there are all sorts wrong with what I've said just to explain it simplistically to you, but you don't get it.
If this wasn't a poster I knew I'd assume this was a wind-up.
Yes.
For the last time, no. They have become a Covid statistic but NOT an excess death.
If they'd have died anyway this year, how can they possibly be excess?
Imagine 100 people die every year, guaranteed, but this year we suddenly have 120 die, so 20 excess deaths.
If my grandad dies with cancer and covid, yes he will count as a Covid statistic, as he tested positive. But he will not count as an excess death. He would have died anyway. He would (statistically speaking) have been one of the 100 that died every year. So how can it possibly be excess?
Remember, a doctor doesn't choose whether a death is excess. There's no causality. It's merely the fact that we've had lots more deaths than usual. That's what makes them excess. No one can explain why based purely on numbers.
If not Covid, what do you think caused the 60,000 deaths above average (i.e. excess) that we have seen since March?
With the greatest respect, you clearly don't understand stats, or how this works. I've even dumbed it down massively, there are all sorts wrong with what I've said just to explain it simplistically to you, but you don't get it.
If this wasn't a poster I knew I'd assume this was a wind-up.
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I don't know if this helps ~
Certifying deaths during COVID-19 outbreak
The process for certifying deaths has changed during the coronavirus outbreak.
https://www.themdu.com/guidance-and...ce/certifying-deaths-during-covid-19-outbreak
https://assets.publishing.service.g...l-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf
Certifying deaths during COVID-19 outbreak
The process for certifying deaths has changed during the coronavirus outbreak.
https://www.themdu.com/guidance-and...ce/certifying-deaths-during-covid-19-outbreak
https://assets.publishing.service.g...l-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf
It might help with the 'official' number of 43,000 or whatever it is, but not with the excess death number. I'm in full agreement with everyone else on here on that by the way, I'm sure that the 43,000 number is misreported, in both ways actually.
But excess deaths are not 'chosen' by a doctor. Excess deaths are just the number of deaths we have seen above what we usually expect to see in the same time period, i.e. an excess.
We will find all of this out in years to come officially. Did we ever get to find out WHY there were so many excess deaths in 2017-2018, or in 1967 or in 1975?....No we didn't and there wasn't covid around then....Maybe you can explain it in simple terms!!
Also other Countries over the years have had spikes.....No covid and no conclusive evidence of why.
I'm not saying Covid (a strain of flu) is not around but I don't believe the figures we are being told (44,000) is down to covid. It's utter bollocks
. Referring deaths to the coroner • Covid-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death • Covid-19 is not a reason on its own to refer a death to a coroner under the Coroners and Justice Act 2009. • That Covid-19 is a notifiable disease under the Health Protection (Notification) Regulations 2010 does not mean referral to a coroner is required by virtue of its notifiable status. Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.
Is this done with any other cause of death? Most don't even report proof that's what the patent died of...
Sorry but this is flawed to me, I don't know about others
As you seem to know everything......Please can you explain the excess numbers of deaths in 2017/18....1967 and 1975......oh and why didn't we lockdown?
These are spikes, bit like when we now and again get a very hot summer.....it happens and nobody can categorically explain why.......Normally an accumulation of reasons...
This year we have an added symptom of Covid on top of other unexplained reasons we get excess deaths which could have been over 50,000 to begin with.
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The excess death rates for those years were winter periods. The 1975 one was due to the flu jab not being used or shortage.
The difference here with Covid is we’ve yet to experience a winter excess death rate as we are only just going into the winter period.
I would suspect that if you looked at those three years during summer months then this year will smash that record.
Regardless of what anyone says 1 death is to many as that one has a family grieving.
The comment regarding Covid only killing the people with under lining illnesses. All viruses will do that, if your immune system is compromised then you’ve got issues fighting it.
If you want to carry on going through it thinking you will be ok, then do it but please use track and trace so that way others can have the warning. That’s if they get it working correctly.
I'm not saying that the figures this year won't be high or even record breaking or Covid is not part of the statistics.....but we are being led to believe that so far, 44,000 deaths are down to the Covid virus alone.... it's a symptom like flu is......But flu isn't part of their statistics if you have Kidney failure, it would be if you had Covid.
I'm not saying it is, but I read somewhere that in the last 12 months, record amounts of flu jabs have been distributed......who's to say, that hasn't been a contribution to respiratory problems fighting off or causing the Covid virus........of course that's unlikely to be reviled for obvious reasons!!
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Possibly because they are underlining issues brought on by Covid.
One thing to remember in this, is in March we were told it only affects the ones with underlining issues to try and reassure the public of the severity of the virus. They seemed to want to blame it on underlining issues in the beginning of the pandemic rather than say we’ve got this virus than can kill you when untreated. It probably is some truth but the 43000 would not of all had underlining issues.
In regard to your conspiracy theory on another thread saying it’s probably linking to the USA election. That is either mass genocide on their behalf or a very daft way of looking at it. Bit like anyone who seriously believes that Trump had it, belongs in the States.
I said towards the beginning of this thread, due to Covid and my dad unable to get into hospital for a blood transfusion for 2 weeks. He died a few weeks later of bladder cancer. They did not contribute Covid to his death when he should of had another year or more.
Which in my eyes is ridiculous, with so many unoccupied beds.....I remember at the peak, my daughter in law that is a nurse at BRI saying how quiet it all was..
Nightingale hospitals never used? Not sure that's right..
It probably is some truth but the 43000 would not of all had underlining issues
Most did though..
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