Off Topic NHS pay rise

[Chip]

The 12.5% is a crazy number!! There is no way they could afford that without increasing income tax by a large amount!! Seems the people asking for these things don’t seem to take into account where the money us coming from!! Unrealistic completely! Not sure I’d agree about nurses being well paid. Some are but most aren’t IMO.

It’s a negotiation tactic, start high settle lower but hopefully higher than they would have offered without the original crazy demands. I think most would settle and be more than happy with around 3 percent. I think they are worth more though and yes I understand that others are not getting anything but those are the breaks and it should never be a race to the bottom.

We need to decide what’s important to us going forwards. A fully funded nhs that rewards staff for dedication and hard work in quite terrible circumstances, or a nation of begrudging dislike of people just like you who happen to have been offered an insultingly low pay uplift because you have not been offered the same as you chose to work in a different sector. We should stand up for the nhs not run it and those who work there into the ground.

 

[Chip]

12.5% is an outrageous demand mind.

My pay increase is automatic, as long as I’m doing my job right it’s around 4% a year.

I think that’s about right industry and sector wide.

Which is far higher than in the nhs over the past 10 years. They had 3 or 4 years with nothing at all when inflation was running over 3 percent, 2 years capped at 1 percent and the last pay deal was the princely sum of 6.5 percent over 3 years with a number of caveats meaning annual increments would be a thing of the past. Also during this time the pensions were reformed, added 7 years to the pension age, increased the contributions from 6 percent to 9.3 percent (or more for higher earners) and made the pensions smaller. A wonderful triple whammy of ****e.
So 12.5 percent isn’t such an outrageous number all things considered. Yes a significant number but having screwed them over for a decade you would have thought they would have been happy to throw a few more quid their way. Especially as those people saved our illustrious leaders life at the beginning of this pandemic. I personally think 1 percent is an insult and it is outrageous that they would offer that at all. Would have been better to say no pay rise in my opinion.

What’s more outrageous is that it’s not that long ago the mps (Who set their own pay) rewarded themselves with a nice fat 10 percent rise.

 

[Nads]

Which is far higher than in the nhs over the past 10 years. They had 3 or 4 years with nothing at all when inflation was running over 3 percent, 2 years capped at 1 percent and the last pay deal was the princely sum of 6.5 percent over 3 years with a number of caveats meaning annual increments would be a thing of the past. Also during this time the pensions were reformed, added 7 years to the pension age, increased the contributions from 6 percent to 9.3 percent (or more for higher earners) and made the pensions smaller. A wonderful triple whammy of ****e.
So 12.5 percent isn’t such an outrageous number all things considered. Yes a significant number but having screwed them over for a decade you would have thought they would have been happy to throw a few more quid their way. Especially as those people saved our illustrious leaders life at the beginning of this pandemic. I personally think 1 percent is an insult and it is outrageous that they would offer that at all. Would have been better to say no pay rise in my opinion.

What’s more outrageous is that it’s not that long ago the mps (Who set their own pay) rewarded themselves with a nice fat 10 percent rise.

Sadly mate that’s not the way the world works.

If you skip dinner you don’t have 2. I agree they deserve a decent pay rise, I agree they’ve been ****ed over previously, but I’m sorry, 12.5%? Public money in a pandemic when folk have been pushed into poverty? It’s absolutely outrageous in my eyes.

I couldn’t agree more on MP pay as I’ve said earlier, that is what needs looked at. Take from them robbing ****ers.

In reality they’ve started at 12.5% hoping to land on 3-4%, which they richly deserve.

 

[Chip]

Sadly mate that’s not the way the world works.

If you skip dinner you don’t have 2. I agree they deserve a decent pay rise, I agree they’ve been ****ed over previously, but I’m sorry, 12.5%? Public money in a pandemic when folk have been pushed into poverty? It’s absolutely outrageous in my eyes.

I couldn’t agree more on MP pay as I’ve said earlier, that is what needs looked at. Take from them robbing ****ers.

In reality they’ve started at 12.5% hoping to land on 3-4%, which they richly deserve.

And that’s what I said above in a previous post, it is a negotiation tactic but also highlights how the nhs has lagged behind over the tories tenure in parliament.

What pisses me off is that there will be people posting in this thread that will have been clapping and banging pans like **** over summer but once pay rises are mentioned begrudge the nurses.

nhs pay scales are public and everyone has an opinion on them the same is never said about the private sector, even colleagues don’t know what each other are on, if they did trouble would be brewing in many companies.

 

[Nads]

And that’s what I said above in a previous post, it is a negotiation tactic but also highlights how the nhs has lagged behind over the tories tenure in parliament.

What pisses me off is that there will be people posting in this thread that will have been clapping and banging pans like **** over summer but once pay rises are mentioned begrudge the nurses.

nhs pay scales are public and everyone has an opinion on them the same is never said about the private sector, even colleagues don’t know what each other are on, if they did trouble would be brewing in many companies.

Absolutely mate. I work for a company where we are told to not discuss salaries as we get performance related add ins etc, there’s some ridiculous pay gaps.

I don’t think many begrudge them it, it’s just gotta be balanced. My sister is an RMN and I’ve said many times it’s a scandal my pay v hers, but then healthcare doesn’t generate income (excluding pharma of course but that’s back to private business).

I hope they get their 3-4%, and I think it’s great that the public are universally more aware of a lot of this ****, like MP piss takes etc.

Folk have to run with it though, once we get through covid I really hope there’s a real stand up from the public.

 

[DH4]

That is Serco track n trace in my eyes and the cost has just jumped to £37 billion. And they still couldnt find somebody with a passport who flew in from Brazil via Zurich on a specific day.

The Americans flew a rocket to Mars for a tenth of the cost of that. And it worked as well.

 

[Chip]

Absolutely mate. I work for a company where we are told to not discuss salaries as we get performance related add ins etc, there’s some ridiculous pay gaps.

I don’t think many begrudge them it, it’s just gotta be balanced. My sister is an RMN and I’ve said many times it’s a scandal my pay v hers, but then healthcare doesn’t generate income (excluding pharma of course but that’s back to private business).

I hope they get their 3-4%, and I think it’s great that the public are universally more aware of a lot of this ****, like MP piss takes etc.

Folk have to run with it though, once we get through covid I really hope there’s a real stand up from the public.

I hope they get what they are due too. I suppose the question of whether the NHS generates income depends on how you define that. There are departments that carry out work in private practice that does bring some new money into trusts but it's small numbers overall. The big income generator is indirect. They fix people and get them back to work which is massively glossed over in the income stakes. Its maybe about time the patients, public and businesses were given some facts on what benefits the NHS brings to everyone. Maybe then we won't have people bitching and moaning about them being offered 1%.

 

[Pure River Slut]

Anyone who doesnt think the NHS deserve a decent pay rise is a bell end. They should make Dido Harding and the PPE boys pay it out of the profits they made from illness.

 

[Smug in Boots]

You can make a sound logical argument for the 1% increase ...

... but you can't stop it looking cheap.

 

[polyphemus]

I think the mistake that a lot people make when comparing the U.K. economy, budget, borrowing money etc is that they compare it to running a household budget - there’s only so much money to go round and anything borrowed has to be paid back. In reality it doesn’t work like that The U.K. is a sovereign nation, we can literally print our own money. We borrow billions from the Bank of England that has to be paid back but the U.K. government owns the Bank of England. We would literally be borrowing from ourselves. The decision not to give NHS staff a larger pay rise is not because as a country we cannot afford it...it’s a political choice

You may recall that when George Bush was fighting reagan for the Republican Presidential Nomination, George refered to Ronnies financial policies as 'Voodoo Economics'.

IF there was any logic to your suggestion, then any UK government could, instantly, make all of us happy by paying us (make up your own figure) a week.
Say £20K, cos I'm not greedy.
Then we could all bog off to a nice warm paradise and relax.
Such a Government would be assured of re-election.

Have you wondered why this has never happened in Brittain?

Something similar happened in Germany in the early 1920's, with results that cost Europe dear.

Countries that do what you suggest end up in an awfull FINANCIAL mess.
Then of course they can not afford a health service,

 

[Pure River Slut]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...udget-small-print_uk_60412920c5b601179ec35d4a

 

[kirkyboy]

You may recall that when George Bush was fighting reagan for the Republican Presidential Nomination, George refered to Ronnies financial policies as 'Voodoo Economics'.

IF there was any logic to your suggestion, then any UK government could, instantly, make all of us happy by paying us (make up your own figure) a week.
Say £20K, cos I'm not greedy.
Then we could all bog off to a nice warm paradise and relax.
Such a Government would be assured of re-election.

Have you wondered why this has never happened in Brittain?

Something similar happened in Germany in the early 1920's, with results that cost Europe dear.

Countries that do what you suggest end up in an awfull FINANCIAL mess.
Then of course they can not afford a health service,

it’s not an ever ending pot of money. It has to be backed up by something tangible - in our case our stock of gold which is the 2nd largest in the world behind the US. However it is a tool that can be used by Governments to help in times of crisis, such as a pandemic or after a war to help rebuild an economy. It’s an option. Putting more money in the pockets of ordinary working people such as Nurses will help stimulate the economy in all areas, leading to more jobs being created which is ultimately going to help those who have unfortunately lost their jobs due to the pandemic. More jobs = more tax revenue for the Government. Trickle down economic models which have been used around the world have been shown not to work. Giving more money to those who are already wealthy is not going to stimulate the economy. Giving it to people who will go out and spend it, will.

 

[Nads]

it’s not an ever ending pot of money. It has to be backed up by something tangible - in our case our stock of gold which is the 2nd largest in the world behind the US. However it is a tool that can be used by Governments to help in times of crisis, such as a pandemic or after a war to help rebuild an economy. It’s an option. Putting more money in the pockets of ordinary working people such as Nurses will help stimulate the economy in all areas, leading to more jobs being created which is ultimately going to help those who have unfortunately lost their jobs due to the pandemic. More jobs = more tax revenue for the Government. Trickle down economic models which have been used around the world have been shown not to work. Giving more money to those who are already wealthy is not going to stimulate the economy. Giving it to people who will go out and spend it, will.

Very true.

The stimulus idea that they’ve used in US is actually very clever, it’s generates money, folk will likely spend a wee bit extra on top, and a big percentage of it comes back in tax anyway.

I couldn’t see our government ever doing that, but as you say a decent rise, for the biggest employer in the UK would have that kind of effect.

The powers that be here seem to lack that foresight though, everything they’ve done is money with no return.

 

[Smug in Boots]

If a grandchild was looking at the NHS, as a career, I think I'd be suggesting alternatives.

 

[kirkyboy]

Very true.

The stimulus idea that they’ve used in US is actually very clever, it’s generates money, folk will likely spend a wee bit extra on top, and a big percentage of it comes back in tax anyway.

I couldn’t see our government ever doing that, but as you say a decent rise, for the biggest employer in the UK would have that kind of effect.

The powers that be here seem to lack that foresight though, everything they’ve done is money with no return.

it shouldn’t just be NHS staff though. There are plenty of people in the private sector / gig economy who also suffer low wages but ultimately that is down to the employer. They need fair pay as well. It saddens me that there is this tension that is created between public and private sector workers where some feel it is unfair that some get better pay rises or pensions than others. Anger and frustration shouldn’t be directed at one another, but that’s divide and rule for you

 

[kirkyboy]

If a grandchild was looking at the NHS, as a career, I think I'd be suggesting alternatives.

Unfortunately you’re right at this
moment in time which is a real shame as it’s a great organisation to work for with some amazing people. Ive been lucky enough to have spent 14 years working there before redundancy but there seems little incentive to do so now

 

[Pure River Slut]

it shouldn’t just be NHS staff though. There are plenty of people in the private sector / gig economy who also suffer low wages but ultimately that is down to the employer. They need fair pay as well. It saddens me that there is this tension that is created between public and private sector workers where some feel it is unfair that some get better pay rises or pensions than others. Anger and frustration shouldn’t be directed at one another, but that’s divide and rule for you

Some private sector staff, care workers etc are also on the front line for violence and illness. They need to show empathy to vulnerable people we care about whatever the challenges and yet are some of the lowest paid while business owners drive around in flash vehicles and rarely see the customers. They also deserve being valued. What gobsmacks me after this last year and the inequity it has highlighted is that some
people fall on the side of the government and ‘protecting the economy’ it’s the wrong way of running the economy. The world is almost upside down. There are many people economically unwell. Instead of the war on benefit claimants we should have a war on dividend payments. There is enough out there in secretly stashed dividends and spare property and material tax avoiding goods to make the world fairer for the low paid and undervalued.

 

[Gil T Azell]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...udget-small-print_uk_60412920c5b601179ec35d4a

Dildo Harding has failed in every job she has been given. Oh to have the right connections eh!

Apple & Google offered them a working model. ffs Facebook can monitor 60% of the world. Serco track n trace is limited to 66 million.

 

[D-K]

Erm, it was me that posted it. Followed up with 1% isn't enough but there's some truth in what it says.

Read the posts properly before posting because it takes a minute to pull apart.

Erm, I was quoting the tweet, not you but what you did say in that post is below... You followed up with the 1% isn't enough in another post after the post I quoted about the tweet so thanks for pulling me up on a post I hadn't seen. I truly consider my post 'pulled apart'

'Something to mull over... 12.5% is just utter madness but it is a negotiation and I think that they know that it's an absurd request'

What I did mull over, as previously stated, is that someone from the Forces thought it a good idea to say stop whining about your pay rise when all other public sectors took a pay freeze and people are struggling when in reality, in 2020 the Military took a 2% pay rise while 'it wasn't the right time to discuss an NHS pay rise' and then a year after the Military, Police and Fire Service, the NHS gets half or less than the 3 mentioned... How about that individual give up there 2% to help out the struggling families they so happily quoted for the good of making the NHS look bad?

 

[D-K]

Depends what trade. In the Army a Corporal's a glorified tea boy, it's very different in the RAF in certain circumstances (I've already paid for my entire career and pension ) . 35k is roughly equivalent to a top increment Flying Officer or a three year corporal in my trade. My pay has gone up about 150-200 quid a month over 15 years, it would be interesting to see the figures for the fire, police and nursing services over the same period. Remember we only get anywhere near them in the first place because of the gigantic hike we got after Gulf War 1.

Sounds about right, I was a 3 year Cpl at that stage (higher pay band) but it also included 'flying pay' or 'crew pay' (can't remember the exact term) because I was part of a Mobile Sqn so constantly out of the country at that stage of my career.