New Head Coach

[Brainy Dose]

Apologies if this has already been discussed on here...I haven't seen it....but I caught an article about the structure Ratcliffe wants to install at Man U and it bears striking similarities to the way I think ours has been directed. Would also explain tensions that arose between Mogga and KS. Ineos is copying KLD!
If it's right,it's easy to see why discussions with a prospective head coach would take some time to conclude to everyone's satisfaction and ultimate agreement.

 

[TopCat.]

if it is true that they have to be Speakmans puppet

Not this **** again man

Is KLD still Stewart Donald's "puppet" too?

 

[Smug in Boots]

This is my point, as a business owner myself, if my company ran like our club then I’d of been done years ago.

I get the spending millions on upgrading the stadium as it really needs it, but the whole debacle about the manager or lack there of, if it is true that they have to be Speakmans puppet then it’s clear as day why it’s taking so long.

the one thing you can’t do is alienate your main source of steady income from the fans, it’s ludicrous and very naive from KLD (if true) there have been a lot of mistakes made on his short time here and only time will tell whether he will be successful or not, I don’t think it’s helped that the Saudi’s took over the mags and a lot of our fan base compare us to that.

It will definitely be an interesting appointment whoever it is, but get this one wrong and I think you will see a mass exodus of fans, as it’s on very thin ice with the lack of communication from the club and the farce since getting rid of Mowbray.

That's all very sensible and nothing I'd argue with mate.

I would say, however, that we don't yet know if it's a debacle just as we don't know the internal mechanisms with KLD, KS, etc. Despite the hysteria we're basing all this on guesswork, for all we know things are going well behind the scenes. You're right about the Mags, and other suspiciously funded clubs, because we can't and may never be able to compete. As you suggest that'll create anger and it has to be directed somewhere.

I don't see a mass exodus though, that's always predicted, but I do agree that this appointment is critical ...

... my hope is that what I've been told is correct and we're taking time and care to get it right beforehand and not after.

 

[Hudson92]

Happy Will Still Eve, I STILL believe

 

[The Norton Cat]

Apologies if this has already been discussed on here...I haven't seen it....but I caught an article about the structure Ratcliffe wants to install at Man U and it bears striking similarities to the way I think ours has been directed. Would also explain tensions that arose between Mogga and KS. Ineos is copying KLD!
If it's right,it's easy to see why discussions with a prospective head coach would take some time to conclude to everyone's satisfaction and ultimate agreement.

It's probably because its the system that was in place at Nice when he took over. It can't be overstated enough, the DoF/Head Coach arrangement is not unusual. Still worked with one at Reims so I don't see how that would be a barrier to him being appointed. Unless, of course, he's.suddenly decided he wants to work in the 'traditional' English format of an all powerful manager (which isn't actually that traditional).

 

[FellTop]

Of all the negative rumours of the last 24 hours, the one that stands out is a potential change of agent. I know it can be a murky old world, but it is getting better. Not sure Still could appoint a new agent and be anywhere close to a deal? Unless the deal is done with his previous agent, they have been paid, and the new one is for the future. But then why would they bother if no pay out anytime soon? Curious.

Alternatively the internet rumour could be months out of date, with Still having moved months ago. His old agency dont appear particularly big on footballers and coaches.

Just trying to find a bit of logic in amongst all the rumours that are hard to substantiate.

 

[Wayne the Punk]

Of all the negative rumours of the last 24 hours, the one that stands out is a potential change of agent. I know it can be a murky old world, but it is getting better. Not sure Still could appoint a new agent and be anywhere close to a deal? Unless the deal is done with his previous agent, they have been paid, and the new one is for the future. But then why would they bother if no pay out anytime soon? Curious.

Alternatively the internet rumour could be months out of date, with Still having moved months ago. His old agency dont appear particularly big on footballers and coaches.

Just trying to find a bit of logic in amongst all the rumours that are hard to substantiate.

I cant remember where I read it, but someone said he signed with the new agent a while ago, but its just been released now

 

[Wardley Makem]

KLD, Speakman

Instead of getting caught up in all the surrounding noise. Are we better or worst than the last few years/year on year?

KLD Club. Higher division, stadium investment, more fan engagement, gigs, revenue. Clear strategy. All better. BCB, huge mistake, tickets, kits etc , been poor. Made changes to rectify

Speakman. Squad a lot better, promotion, worse season last season, squad deficiencies, player contracts all better, retaining young players.

Overall, we are in such a strong position when you compare the start to now. Last season we went backwards in the table, but forwards with the stadium, kits, shop etc. Our squad has holes, but the foundation of our club/squad has been hugely improved.

Just wish we could move on and have a positive view of things. Nothing the board have done screams bad intentions or major concerns.

(In my view)

 

[The Norton Cat]

KLD, Speakman

Instead of getting caught up in all the surrounding noise. Are we better or worst than the last few years/year on year?

KLD Club. Higher division, stadium investment, more fan engagement, gigs, revenue. Clear strategy. All better. BCB, huge mistake, tickets, kits etc , been poor. Made changes to rectify

Speakman. Squad a lot better, promotion, worse season last season, squad deficiencies, player contracts all better, retaining young players.

Overall, we are in such a strong position when you compare the start to now. Last season we went backwards in the table, but forwards with the stadium, kits, shop etc. Our squad has holes, but the foundation of our club/squad has been hugely improved.

Just wish we could move on and have a positive view of things. Nothing the board have done screams bad intentions or major concerns.

(In my view)

Things aren't perfect under KLD but we're now a modern football club, trying to operate in a way to make the club competitive in the 21st century football landscape.

 

[Brainy Dose]

It's probably because its the system that was in place at Nice when he took over. It can't be overstated enough, the DoF/Head Coach arrangement is not unusual. Still worked with one at Reims so I don't see how that would be a barrier to him being appointed. Unless, of course, he's.suddenly decided he wants to work in the 'traditional' English format of an all powerful manager (which isn't actually that traditional).

I think if Still had said that from day 1 the discussion would have lasted 5 minutes and we'd have instantly looked elsewhere.
The owners are dictating,through the DoF, the style of football they want any coach to get us to play,and recruitment is dependent on age and potential sell on value,as well as fitting in to that style. The coach informs the DoF of the squad positions he wants to fill,and the DoF,via the recruitment team,present him with some options from which he can choose. If that's what's happening,I can see discussions going on late into the night for a potential coach to be happy to get on board with that.

 

[Grizzled Wanderer]

Of all the negative rumours of the last 24 hours, the one that stands out is a potential change of agent. I know it can be a murky old world, but it is getting better. Not sure Still could appoint a new agent and be anywhere close to a deal? Unless the deal is done with his previous agent, they have been paid, and the new one is for the future. But then why would they bother if no pay out anytime soon? Curious.

Alternatively the internet rumour could be months out of date, with Still having moved months ago. His old agency dont appear particularly big on footballers and coaches.

Just trying to find a bit of logic in amongst all the rumours that are hard to substantiate.

Maybe it's a try before you buy on Still's part - authorise the potential new agent to negotiate on his behalf and if they get him a good deal he signs with them permanently.

 

[rooch 3]

Wonder how many of these questions and answers are rinse and repeat since this thread started, 80% maybe, just a guess.

 

[Wackyjacky]

KLD, Speakman

Instead of getting caught up in all the surrounding noise. Are we better or worst than the last few years/year on year?

KLD Club. Higher division, stadium investment, more fan engagement, gigs, revenue. Clear strategy. All better. BCB, huge mistake, tickets, kits etc , been poor. Made changes to rectify

Speakman. Squad a lot better, promotion, worse season last season, squad deficiencies, player contracts all better, retaining young players.

Overall, we are in such a strong position when you compare the start to now. Last season we went backwards in the table, but forwards with the stadium, kits, shop etc. Our squad has holes, but the foundation of our club/squad has been hugely improved.

Just wish we could move on and have a positive view of things. Nothing the board have done screams bad intentions or major concerns.

(In my view)

It's all about opinions and glass half-empty or half-full. Whilst I agree with some of your points above I think some are made through rose-tinted glasses, imo. To look at your points, I've put my own thoughts below in brackets and in bold after your points. I agree with some but see some of the other points differently.


KLD, Speakman

Instead of getting caught up in all the surrounding noise. Are we better or worst than the last few years/year on year?

KLD Club. Higher division, (True)

stadium investment, (only after regular complaints from fans that they have took a loan out to address some of the concerns and until it actually happens we don’t know how much of an improvement)

more fan engagement, (only after being repeatedly dragged to the table by RAWA and other fan groups. Minutes are late coming out and communication still poor)

gigs, revenue. (True, more gigs and revenue)

Clear strategy (is it? We don’t really know it, we’ve never seen a 3yr or 5yr plan or what the strategy is. Everyone thinks we only buy young and cheap to sell at a big profit but Speakman denies this, so what is the clear strategy, officially?).

BCB, huge mistake, tickets, kits etc , been poor. Made changes to rectify (True, and hopefully David Bruce will make a difference in these areas and some of the ones further up).
Speakman. Squad a lot better, promotion, worse season last season, squad deficiencies, (True, squad last year a lot worse off than than last season AND the promotion season, our L1 playoff final team a lot stronger than what we have now).

Player contracts all better, retaining young players (True, some good business done).

Overall, we are in such a strong position when you compare the start to now. Last season we went backwards in the table, but forwards with the stadium, kits, shop etc. (We haven’t gone forwards yet, it is mooted but until it happens we have to wait and see).

Our squad has holes, but the foundation of our club/squad has been hugely improved.

Just wish we could move on and have a positive view of things. Nothing the board have done screams bad intentions or major concerns.

 

[Pure River Slut]

KLD, Speakman

Instead of getting caught up in all the surrounding noise. Are we better or worst than the last few years/year on year?

KLD Club. Higher division, stadium investment, more fan engagement, gigs, revenue. Clear strategy. All better. BCB, huge mistake, tickets, kits etc , been poor. Made changes to rectify

Speakman. Squad a lot better, promotion, worse season last season, squad deficiencies, player contracts all better, retaining young players.

Overall, we are in such a strong position when you compare the start to now. Last season we went backwards in the table, but forwards with the stadium, kits, shop etc. Our squad has holes, but the foundation of our club/squad has been hugely improved.

Just wish we could move on and have a positive view of things. Nothing the board have done screams bad intentions or major concerns.

(In my view)

Last years recruitment and the failure to retain coaches is a significant concern to me being honest. If they don’t alter that after relegation form they are literally idiots. Hopefully they do/have/are and we just don’t know about it, but if they have Speakman in charge of recruiting a coach they get what they deserve.

 

[The Norton Cat]

I think if Still had said that from day 1 the discussion would have lasted 5 minutes and we'd have instantly looked elsewhere.
The owners are dictating,through the DoF, the style of football they want any coach to get us to play,and recruitment is dependent on age and potential sell on value,as well as fitting in to that style. The coach informs the DoF of the squad positions he wants to fill,and the DoF,via the recruitment team,present him with some options from which he can choose. If that's what's happening,I can see discussions going on late into the night for a potential coach to be happy to get on board with that.

Yeah, that's basically how the system should run, with perhaps some minor differences from club to club. There will be some people who don't want to work like that- non-league managers I've talked to about it wouldn't want to work like that- but if the club are targeting coaches who aren't happy with that set up, then they're targeting the wrong people. Someone like Still, or Maric, or Wicky is unlikely to object to that set up, in principle at least.

 

[Tongester55]

I doubt if they were paid any more for stepping up, so I’m very happy for them to go back to their previous jobs.

And in their previous roles they were quite successful as I don't remember people shouting for them to be sacked when we finished 6th!!!

 

[The Norton Cat]

It's all about opinions and glass half-empty or half-full. Whilst I agree with some of your points above I think some are made through rose-tinted glasses, imo. To look at your points, I've put my own thoughts below in brackets and in bold after your points. I agree with some but see some of the other points differently.


KLD, Speakman

Instead of getting caught up in all the surrounding noise. Are we better or worst than the last few years/year on year?

KLD Club. Higher division, (True)

stadium investment, (only after regular complaints from fans that they have took a loan out to address some of the concerns and until it actually happens we don’t know how much of an improvement)

more fan engagement, (only after being repeatedly dragged to the table by RAWA and other fan groups. Minutes are late coming out and communication still poor)

gigs, revenue. (True, more gigs and revenue)

Clear strategy (is it? We don’t really know it, we’ve never seen a 3yr or 5yr plan or what the strategy is. Everyone thinks we only buy young and cheap to sell at a big profit but Speakman denies this, so what is the clear strategy, officially?).

BCB, huge mistake, tickets, kits etc , been poor. Made changes to rectify (True, and hopefully David Bruce will make a difference in these areas and some of the ones further up).
Speakman. Squad a lot better, promotion, worse season last season, squad deficiencies, (True, squad last year a lot worse off than than last season AND the promotion season, our L1 playoff final team a lot stronger than what we have now).

Player contracts all better, retaining young players (True, some good business done).

Overall, we are in such a strong position when you compare the start to now. Last season we went backwards in the table, but forwards with the stadium, kits, shop etc. (We haven’t gone forwards yet, it is mooted but until it happens we have to wait and see).

Our squad has holes, but the foundation of our club/squad has been hugely improved.

Just wish we could move on and have a positive view of things. Nothing the board have done screams bad intentions or major concerns.

stadium investment, (only after regular complaints from fans that they have took a loan out to address some of the concerns and until it actually happens we don’t know how much of an improvement)

more fan engagement, (only after being repeatedly dragged to the table by RAWA and other fan groups. Minutes are late coming out and communication still poor)

How does this compare to previous owners though?

Clear strategy (is it? We don’t really know it, we’ve never seen a 3yr or 5yr plan or what the strategy is. Everyone thinks we only buy young and cheap to sell at a big profit but Speakman denies this, so what is the clear strategy, officially?).

Does everyone think that? Or is it one of these myths that have been developed to use as a stick to beat the club with? Who have we sold for a big profit? And what is wrong with doing that? It makes good sense. It seems to me, we're targeting good players who we can get for below their true value.

 

[Smug in Boots]

stadium investment, (only after regular complaints from fans that they have took a loan out to address some of the concerns and until it actually happens we don’t know how much of an improvement)

more fan engagement, (only after being repeatedly dragged to the table by RAWA and other fan groups. Minutes are late coming out and communication still poor)

How does this compare to previous owners though?

Clear strategy (is it? We don’t really know it, we’ve never seen a 3yr or 5yr plan or what the strategy is. Everyone thinks we only buy young and cheap to sell at a big profit but Speakman denies this, so what is the clear strategy, officially?).

Does everyone think that? Or is it one of these myths that have been developed to use as a stick to beat the club with? Who have we sold for a big profit? And what is wrong with doing that? It makes good sense. It seems to me, we're targeting good players who we can get for below their true value.

There comes a point whereby keeping a player is virtually impossible.

If they want to 'better themselves' you can either sell them for top dollar or allow them to run their contract down.

That's the simple truth and has nothing to do with 'models', ambition or Speakman.

 

[Wackyjacky]

stadium investment, (only after regular complaints from fans that they have took a loan out to address some of the concerns and until it actually happens we don’t know how much of an improvement)

more fan engagement, (only after being repeatedly dragged to the table by RAWA and other fan groups. Minutes are late coming out and communication still poor)

How does this compare to previous owners though? (Similar to recent owners and not good enough, two wrongs don't make a right).

Clear strategy (is it? We don’t really know it, we’ve never seen a 3yr or 5yr plan or what the strategy is. Everyone thinks we only buy young and cheap to sell at a big profit but Speakman denies this, so what is the clear strategy, officially?).

Does everyone think that? Or is it one of these myths that have been developed to use as a stick to beat the club with? Who have we sold for a big profit? And what is wrong with doing that? It makes good sense. It seems to me, we're targeting good players who we can get for below their true value. (That's basically what I'm saying, the strategy isn't clear as no-one knows and jumps to assumptions. Ross Stewart is the obvious one we have sold for a big profit, rightly or wrongly is a matter of opinion, and yes I agree that at times it does make good sense. My point is the strategy is not clear as the OP stated, no-one knows the ACTUAL strategy because they've never defined it publicly).

Put my replies in green.

 

[SuperSunderland]

Where’s “the Scout” gone?