Name change discussion
- Thread starter RicardoHCAFC
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Oh wait no there;s a City match on tomorrow. It's time for the Allam weekly outburst.
I like Burnsy but I'm expecting nothing more than the usual journalist soundbite we keep getting on the subject where he doesn't grill Ehab asking for evidence and pointing out the obvious flaws as he should do but instead just makes sure he gets what he needs to make a 'sensational' story and provoke lots of phone-ins which, surprise surprise, happen to be 50-50 for and against.
Only if you think the name change has a value that cannot be achieved with the existing name and nickname. All this will be is the next instalment of smoke and mirrors, a perpetuation of the BIG LIE. The only reason it will be worth listening to would be to see if there is a journo out there with a full set of brains and balls.
Some good posts from you tonight, PLT. You are right to question if folk really believe if they are asking whether to **** off or not? Do they really believe they are in a position to **** off, or if they are, do they seriously think they would seek views or permissions.
I would be more specific in what I believe their rationale and drivers are; ego and power are all consuming, as is wealth. There is a change coming to Hull, in macroeconomic terms, that will be a huge regional opportunity for entrenepeurs who have assets to exploit it. Where is a huge percentage of the Allam family's fortune currently tied up? This was supposed to be their entrance card to the right circles, but is it now?
The Allam's are playing for time and the chance to reposition themselves on the regional monopoly board, Hull City AFC or Hull Tigers is a sideshow that they can lose, but not be seen to have lost. If the stakes and returns are high enough, then no one will be making trips to Specsavers anytime soon.
BFS has got involved in the name change debacle, and he is yet another footballing man disagreeing with AA...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-slams-Allardyce-ahead-relegation-battle.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-slams-Allardyce-ahead-relegation-battle.html
This depends on whether he is prepared to switch his production and become a supplier for Siemens. If we can and Allam Marine become a major sub-contractor to Siemens with similar levels of profit achieved previously, City will be moving to Melton in the next 5 years in my opinion.
Hull City gives him something he hasn't had before, mass recognition and devotion. A difficult drug to give up.
Interesting article sorry if its been posted before.
http://thetwounfortunates.com/examining-the-hull-city-ballot/
There could be a new name on the cup this year. Would the FA really want it to be Hull Tigers?
There are a few big ifs of course – three other clubs have their own ambitions of lifting the trophy at Wembley on 17 May.
It’s also highly likely that football’s governing body will maintain its block on Assem Allam’s bid to change Hull City’s name, regardless of the outcome of the most pointless poll this side of Simferopol.
Pointless because the exercise is too late, because the questions are loaded and because a matter which has the potential to change the face of football in England is far too important to be decided by the fans of one club.
Don’t be fooled into thinking that the ballot is evidence of Dr Allam’s new-found faith in democracy for football fans; it’s purely his last chance of swaying the FA, of convincing them that he has undertaken meaningful consultation with Hull City fans.
The roots of the problem are in Dr Allam’s self-confessed lack of understanding of football. In the summer of 2012 I interviewed him for nearly three hours, talking business and football while nibbling Ferrero Rocher in his sumptuous office.
He joked about not being able to understand the offside law, but the smile had disappeared when he spoke of his frustration at the lack of loyalty within football, and a man who claims to rarely get annoyed was clearly at the end of his tether as he descrtibed his efforts to buy the KC Stadium from Hull City Council.
What Dr Allam failed to appreciate then and has still not come to terms with now is that there is business, and then there is football business. He’d obviously never heard the old adage that the way to make a small fortune from investing in professional sport is to start with a large fortune.
His claim that criticism doesn’t bother him won’t cause any ripples in the corporate world, but it has stirred up a few storms with Hull City supporters as he’s blundered his way from one PR disaster to another.
In spite of occasionally irrational supporter opposition to many of Dr Allam’s controversial decisions it’s clear many fans know more than he does about how to run a football club.
They recognise that as the owner of Hull City he was perfectly within his rights to sack Nick Barmby and Adam Pearson, to order the removal of Hull FC rugby league memorabilia from the walls of the stadium, to increase ticket prices for disabled fans, to raise the qualifying age limit for seniors, to hold a promotion celebration at the stadium rather than share it with the city centre. And they’ll defend his right to approach such issues in as clumsy and offensive a way as he sees fit.
But the name of the club is not his to change, and claims that the switch would attract huge investment from overseas will always be shrouded by commercial confidentiality clauses.
Let’s accept it is just a misunderstanding when we hear Dr Allam talk about Hull City Council rejecting his bid to buy the KC Stadium and senior city councillors respond that they have never received an offer. But what happens if there is a similar misunderstanding with the mystery backers in the Far East after the name change?
Even if the name change helps to secure a lucrative sponsorship deal with Tiger Beer, what happens at the end of the term? By then Hull City will have pioneered the practice of football clubs adopting the name of their sponsor, and you’ll never get that genie back into the bottle.
Think back a few years to the season when City were sponsored by Twydale Turkeys. Hull Turkeys would have attracted ridicule, and not just at Christmas. And how about Hull Pawnbokers under Cash Converters? Hull Cranswick Porkers anybody?
The FA should block the change and also adopt a set of criteria to protect the heritage of the game and the individual clubs – establishing the name of a team, specifying the town/city/area with which teams are associated and within which they should be located and safeguarding the colours of the team’s first-choice kit.
They should not be influenced by a vote which is tarnished by Dr Allam’s clear threat to withdraw his investment from the club, and by a procedure which makes it easy to identify how people voted. A secret ballot managed by an independent operator would be more costly and time-consuming, but it would produce a more genuine response. Within minutes of the ballot form being published some fans were voicing fears that the club could use the personal details to discriminate against dissenters in the distribution of Wembley tickets.
Such a process can only increase the reluctance of people to vote, with a high “abstention” count likely to be portrayed by Dr Allam as a lack of concern about the name change and therefore an endorsement of his plans.
So how should we vote? On the simple, single issue it has to be no to Hull Tigers, and the outcome would surely be a landslide victory for that campaign but for Dr Allam’s strategy of linking the ballot to a vote of confidence in his leadership.
If Dr Allam loses and leaves that will be his decision. He may accuse the fans of having forced him out, but the reality is that all they’ll have done is resist begging him to stay.
Certainly it is clear that almost all the fans would like Dr Allam to continue, but not at such a high cost to Hull City’s dignity and heritage.
The whole episode is bonkers, but what Dr Allam has done is present the FA with an open goal – the opportunity to re-assert its authority and to re-affirm some of the traditions which make football such a great game.
http://thetwounfortunates.com/examining-the-hull-city-ballot/
There could be a new name on the cup this year. Would the FA really want it to be Hull Tigers?
There are a few big ifs of course – three other clubs have their own ambitions of lifting the trophy at Wembley on 17 May.
It’s also highly likely that football’s governing body will maintain its block on Assem Allam’s bid to change Hull City’s name, regardless of the outcome of the most pointless poll this side of Simferopol.
Pointless because the exercise is too late, because the questions are loaded and because a matter which has the potential to change the face of football in England is far too important to be decided by the fans of one club.
Don’t be fooled into thinking that the ballot is evidence of Dr Allam’s new-found faith in democracy for football fans; it’s purely his last chance of swaying the FA, of convincing them that he has undertaken meaningful consultation with Hull City fans.
The roots of the problem are in Dr Allam’s self-confessed lack of understanding of football. In the summer of 2012 I interviewed him for nearly three hours, talking business and football while nibbling Ferrero Rocher in his sumptuous office.
He joked about not being able to understand the offside law, but the smile had disappeared when he spoke of his frustration at the lack of loyalty within football, and a man who claims to rarely get annoyed was clearly at the end of his tether as he descrtibed his efforts to buy the KC Stadium from Hull City Council.
What Dr Allam failed to appreciate then and has still not come to terms with now is that there is business, and then there is football business. He’d obviously never heard the old adage that the way to make a small fortune from investing in professional sport is to start with a large fortune.
His claim that criticism doesn’t bother him won’t cause any ripples in the corporate world, but it has stirred up a few storms with Hull City supporters as he’s blundered his way from one PR disaster to another.
In spite of occasionally irrational supporter opposition to many of Dr Allam’s controversial decisions it’s clear many fans know more than he does about how to run a football club.
They recognise that as the owner of Hull City he was perfectly within his rights to sack Nick Barmby and Adam Pearson, to order the removal of Hull FC rugby league memorabilia from the walls of the stadium, to increase ticket prices for disabled fans, to raise the qualifying age limit for seniors, to hold a promotion celebration at the stadium rather than share it with the city centre. And they’ll defend his right to approach such issues in as clumsy and offensive a way as he sees fit.
But the name of the club is not his to change, and claims that the switch would attract huge investment from overseas will always be shrouded by commercial confidentiality clauses.
Let’s accept it is just a misunderstanding when we hear Dr Allam talk about Hull City Council rejecting his bid to buy the KC Stadium and senior city councillors respond that they have never received an offer. But what happens if there is a similar misunderstanding with the mystery backers in the Far East after the name change?
Even if the name change helps to secure a lucrative sponsorship deal with Tiger Beer, what happens at the end of the term? By then Hull City will have pioneered the practice of football clubs adopting the name of their sponsor, and you’ll never get that genie back into the bottle.
Think back a few years to the season when City were sponsored by Twydale Turkeys. Hull Turkeys would have attracted ridicule, and not just at Christmas. And how about Hull Pawnbokers under Cash Converters? Hull Cranswick Porkers anybody?
The FA should block the change and also adopt a set of criteria to protect the heritage of the game and the individual clubs – establishing the name of a team, specifying the town/city/area with which teams are associated and within which they should be located and safeguarding the colours of the team’s first-choice kit.
They should not be influenced by a vote which is tarnished by Dr Allam’s clear threat to withdraw his investment from the club, and by a procedure which makes it easy to identify how people voted. A secret ballot managed by an independent operator would be more costly and time-consuming, but it would produce a more genuine response. Within minutes of the ballot form being published some fans were voicing fears that the club could use the personal details to discriminate against dissenters in the distribution of Wembley tickets.
Such a process can only increase the reluctance of people to vote, with a high “abstention” count likely to be portrayed by Dr Allam as a lack of concern about the name change and therefore an endorsement of his plans.
So how should we vote? On the simple, single issue it has to be no to Hull Tigers, and the outcome would surely be a landslide victory for that campaign but for Dr Allam’s strategy of linking the ballot to a vote of confidence in his leadership.
If Dr Allam loses and leaves that will be his decision. He may accuse the fans of having forced him out, but the reality is that all they’ll have done is resist begging him to stay.
Certainly it is clear that almost all the fans would like Dr Allam to continue, but not at such a high cost to Hull City’s dignity and heritage.
The whole episode is bonkers, but what Dr Allam has done is present the FA with an open goal – the opportunity to re-assert its authority and to re-affirm some of the traditions which make football such a great game.
Nice stuff, Mel - and you a pro-name change fan.
Cardiff fans having a shout:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...s/cardiff-city-supporters-trust-urge-6897905?
Cardiff fans having a shout:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...s/cardiff-city-supporters-trust-urge-6897905?
On the turncoats thread I posted this.
"I'm now partial pro name change, anti FA and undecided about the Allams."
Partial pro name change, I do not mind the loss of AFC and I have never considered Hull City Tigers to be a real problem.
No such thing as partial name-change. Anything other than Hull City AFC is a name-change, to support a change from that is to be Pro-name-change. The FA have FA to do with why this name change attempt came about; to bring them into the argument is as much a red-herring as a supporters trust - interesting topics, but separate to the name-change debate. What do you think about the moral standards of the Allam's? What do you think when people call them bonkers?
<snooze> we still arguing about this?
The FA will vote no.
all the prepubescent CTWD members and the knuckle draggers have won, can we move on now?
AA is a business man, he can spot a money making venture cos he no longer wants to throw his own cash into a money pit. Who can blame him really?
The FA will vote no.
all the prepubescent CTWD members and the knuckle draggers have won, can we move on now?
AA is a business man, he can spot a money making venture cos he no longer wants to throw his own cash into a money pit. Who can blame him really?
Congratulations, Slapper - your unchanging vacuous approach to the issue is being firmly maintained. You continue to peddle the Allams' line that it's definitely about making money, whilst ignoring the old man's falling-out with HCC over the Stadium.
If we are to move on, as you 'wittily' suggest - then why is the so-called 'ballot' being called by the Allams? And would you concede that the 'ballot' is being handled with the same finesse (and PR success) as many of the Allams' other moves?
hang on... let me open my front door... I'll try and find someone that cares.
We already have and accept a partial name change, our playing name. The chant isnt Hull City AFC till we die is it. The major change is that the City element is going, secondary to that is the loss of AFC. I support Hull City and if that is retained in the name then I support that, if the name was changed to Hull City Tigers, whilst I would not be as happy, but I would accept it.
You are wrong about the FA. Every national football supporter organisation, a government commission and several supporters trusts all have stated that the FA not fulfilled its responsibilities to supporters in relation to upholding the traditions of clubs all prior to the start of the season, the FA STILL have not done anything about it.
Are the Allams bonkers? Are do they lie? I accept that some of what Assem Allam has said and done is on the face of it ill advised and lacks thought. I would not like to work with him as he will do what he wants. But his past business experience has to be taken into account, he has been a success and this goes to a persons head. He believes that everything that he says or does is right and that makes it difficult for him to see the error of his ways. Ehab stepped forward and whilst he is stll in his Fathers shadow, I felt that he was someone who could turn out to be a better football businessman than I ha first thought. The impression give prior to the interview, was that Ehab simply lived the life of a playboy and did not do much at all.
You are wrong about the FA. Every national football supporter organisation, a government commission and several supporters trusts all have stated that the FA not fulfilled its responsibilities to supporters in relation to upholding the traditions of clubs all prior to the start of the season, the FA STILL have not done anything about it.
Are the Allams bonkers? Are do they lie? I accept that some of what Assem Allam has said and done is on the face of it ill advised and lacks thought. I would not like to work with him as he will do what he wants. But his past business experience has to be taken into account, he has been a success and this goes to a persons head. He believes that everything that he says or does is right and that makes it difficult for him to see the error of his ways. Ehab stepped forward and whilst he is stll in his Fathers shadow, I felt that he was someone who could turn out to be a better football businessman than I ha first thought. The impression give prior to the interview, was that Ehab simply lived the life of a playboy and did not do much at all.