Name change discussion

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Hull City AFC (Ricardo) said:
You're choosing to ignore the fact I'm against this name change. What I'm doing is supporting the campaign against this name change whilst maintaining my ability to support a different name change proposal in future if there's one that I feel is in the best interests of the club. There is no "after the name has changed" element to it, because I'm talking about it changing from the current name in both cases

I ignoring nothing, because your claim to be against the name-change is superficial and confused. You say that you support a campaign that has created a membership organisation which has the specific goal of fighting, yes, fighting the name-change. How can you do that when you are undecided and awaiting some form of epiphany on the subject from the good Lord Allam? Until you get that sign, whatever it is, you are tentatively supporting the on going action to change the name, if only by in-action. Again I find it difficult to follow your logic

You're wrong.

If they announced tomorrow they were selling the training ground I'd be against it.
If they announced in 6 months time that they were going to build a new training ground and to help fund the acquisition of the land they were going to sell the current training ground I'd be in favour of selling it.

It's unacceptable to sell it now with no benefit to the club (beyond the sale price), but I wouldn't go joining a protest group demanding we keep the training ground forever, because it would be acceptable in 6 months time when the situational being proposed was different and there were benefits that would come about as a result of the sale.

What are you on about? I thought we were discussing the name-change, nothing else. He has formally applied for the name-change, so I would have thought his reasons for doing so would be very clear to us all; but they are not are they, Ricardo. Perhaps we may be wiser after Friday, but I'm mot holding my breath.

The purpose of challenging the position isn't to get him to listen, it's to get those who are undecided to listen to the issues and look at the situation by not presenting the anti-name change side in the same way AA is presenting himself. When they see reasonable questions being asked and no answers being given they're much more likely to be against the name change than they are if they see people going round just slagging AA off.

Again, that is nonsense. Of course the purpose of challenging the position is to get him to listen, as he is the protagonist. After his initial insults he has remained quiet but determined to process his name-change plan, as he has applied. So are you telling me that CTWD winning over you and Happy Tiger I'd more important that highlighting the lies and duplicity of Allam. It's all very noble and polite, but it will win bugger all; it will certainly not change the way the FA progress, as theirs is a totally different political dilemma.
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Fez said:
I ignoring nothing, because your claim to be against the name-change is superficial and confused. You say that you support a campaign that has created a membership organisation which has the specific goal of fighting, yes, fighting the name-change. How can you do that when you are undecided and awaiting some form of epiphany on the subject from the good Lord Allam? Until you get that sign, whatever it is, you are tentatively supporting the on going action to change the name, if only by in-action. Again I find it difficult to follow your logic
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Being against this name change proposal doesn't mean I'm against all name change proposals that could ever be made. Should the fight against this name change be successful I don't wish to be tied to a group which may be opposed to all future name changes as well. It is nothing to do with some sign from Allam.

Fez said:
What are you on about? I thought we were discussing the name-change, nothing else. He has formally applied for the name-change, so I would have thought his reasons for doing so would be very clear to us all; but they are not are they, Ricardo. Perhaps we may be wiser after Friday, but I'm mot holding my breath.
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We are talking about the name change and the name change only, I'm using another situation to illustrate the fact because you seem unable to grasp that not being against every name change proposal imaginable isn't the same as not being against this name change proposal, and that there could be a situation in future where the proposal of a name change is very different. You're perfectly entitled to think there's no situation where a name change is acceptable, good for you, I'm just as entitled to not agree with that without it meaning I agree with the name being changed in this situation.

Fez said:
Again, that is nonsense. Of course the purpose of challenging the position is to get him to listen, as he is the protagonist. After his initial insults he has remained quiet but determined to process his name-change plan, as he has applied. So are you telling me that CTWD winning over you and Happy Tiger I'd more important that highlighting the lies and duplicity of Allam. It's all very noble and polite, but it will win bugger all; it will certainly not change the way the FA progress, as theirs is a totally different political dilemma.
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It's not nonsense. He's not listening to anything anybody says as he claims it is a minority. The only way to change that view is to increase the number of people who are objecting and taking action against the decision. The way to get more people involved is to raise the challenges in a way that doesn't make you seem like a petulant school child, which is what all the name calling both ways does.

If CTWD are trying to win me over then they're wasting the time, I've already been passing on their information to other people, and promoting other 'protest' actions/products like the merchandise. The only thing I've not done is sign myself up as a member of the group as I'd rather maintain my independence for future situations which could occur.
 
I have not got a clue what you are on about. How many name-change disagreements are there? I have been working on the principle that there is just the one that has been applied for, the change from Hull City AFC to Hull Tigers. Why don't we deal with that one as that is the name of our club at stake?

You are making this far too complicated with your quasi-intellectual waffle about future name-change and utterances from Allam. You do realise you can resign from any membership organisation, don't you? The CTWD guys might correct me, but I am pretty certain that an identifiable email sent by any member is sufficient to cancel a membership. If reminding folk of the true nature of Allam is childish, then great, because a child would not complicate this as much as you are. He is a lier, a deceiver and a manipulator so everyone should be aware and watchful, because he is far from finished. Give it all the time you want, as you are insignificant to him, as are all of us plebs.
 
Fez said:
I have not got a clue what you are on about. How many name-change disagreements are there? I have been working on the principle that there is just the one that has been applied for, the change from Hull City AFC to Hull Tigers. Why don't we deal with that one as that is the name of our club at stake?

You are making this far too complicated with your quasi-intellectual waffle about future name-change and utterances from Allam. You do realise you can resign from any membership organisation, don't you? The CTWD guys might correct me, but I am pretty certain that an identifiable email sent by any member is sufficient to cancel a membership.
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You do realise you can be a supporter of a group without being a member of it don't you?

Fez said:
If reminding folk of the true nature of Allam is childish, then great, because a child would not complicate this as much as you are. He is a lier, a deceiver and a manipulator so everyone should be aware and watchful, because he is far from finished. Give it all the time you want, as you are insignificant to him, as are all of us plebs.
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You're the one complicating it. My position is simple: I am against the name change Allam is proposing, but I don't feel the need to join CTWD in order to support their actions.

If everyone should be aware of what he's like then you need to make sure people are listening. Running round slagging him off in the same manner he's been acting towards CTWD just makes people decide that both sides are as bad as each other and they tune it all out. Actually having a dignified approach to things, as the group themselves have done does far more to encourage support for them from the rest of the fans. I'm getting to the point with you now though where I can't be arsed reading anything you've got to say on the matter, and I'm someone who agrees with you about not wanting the change to happen, so god knows when people who disagreed with you or who weren't bothered tuned out of it.
 
This won't happen I know but how will CTWD feel if the FA / AA make a statement on Friday that the decision has been made and the name changes ? ..
 
.... said:
This won't happen I know but how will CTWD feel if the FA / AA make a statement on Friday that the decision has been made and the name changes ? ..
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The FA and Assem Allam will not make a decision on Friday as it leave the FA open to a successful legal challange. They have asked a number of organisations including the OSC and CTWD to make their submissions. They have agreed we can meet them sometime in February, so if they rip up their procedure for consultation they will be open to a legal challange.
 
Hull City AFC (Ricardo) said:
You do realise you can be a supporter of a group without being a member of it don't you?

I course I do, but I find that a somewhat strange approach when it would seem that the common consensus is that membership numbers have a significant role to play in successful lobbying. It is a bit like having some real dislike and disapproval for what an enemy is doing, but having an undeclared moral conscientious objection to actually doing something about it. Despite regrets, the enemy wins unopposed.

You're the one complicating it. My position is simple: I am against the name change Allam is proposing, but I don't feel the need to join CTWD in order to support their actions.

If everyone should be aware of what he's like then you need to make sure people are listening. Running round slagging him off in the same manner he's been acting towards CTWD just makes people decide that both sides are as bad as each other and they tune it all out. Actually having a dignified approach to things, as the group themselves have done does far more to encourage support for them from the rest of the fans. I'm getting to the point with you now though where I can't be arsed reading anything you've got to say on the matter, and I'm someone who agrees with you about not wanting the change to happen, so god knows when people who disagreed with you or who weren't bothered tuned out of it.
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I have not slagged him off, I have simply repeated that he is a liar, a deceiver and a manipulator, all of which are facts proven by his own well documented actions. The decent and respectful approach of CTWD has had a strong effect on you then, as they have failed to get your membership, even though you claim to accept their argument (same argument as mine, different style). Your points are shallow and contradictory, but you wish to debate further I am available. I do find it hilarious that you blame my posts on these boards for the good people of Hull showing their apathetic side.
 
PattyNchips2 said:
2 business men meeting?
yes I can see plenty of emotive BS going on there.
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Obadiah said:
I should think he'll meet an FA committee (or representatives of the Council) and make his presentation. They ask him some questions and let him know when the decision will be made. The meeting will end and they'll move on to hearing the other submissions. I should think it will be all above board to cut off any possibility of legal action.
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sarcasm is wasted on some
 
Maybe not the right place for this question...?

Just wondering who wants Assem Allam to stay as our owner and who doesn't ?

I want him to stay as in my opinion he is our best owner since Harold Needler..
 
TigerFILEY said:
Maybe not the right place for this question...?

Just wondering who wants Assem Allam to stay as our owner and who doesn't ?

I want him to stay as in my opinion he is our best owner since Harold Needler..
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Steve Bruce makes Mr Allam look a better owner.
 
TigerFILEY said:
Maybe not the right place for this question...?

Just wondering who wants Assem Allam to stay as our owner and who doesn't ?

I want him to stay as in my opinion he is our best owner since Harold Needler..
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If we had not been promoted, would you still regard him as our best ever owner? If we stay up but struggle next season (as in 2009/10) and he sacks SB would you still regard him as our best ever owner? I think this kind of thing should only be judged after he has left, whenever that may be. It could be argued that Phil Brown is our best ever manager because we were joint top of the Premier League and stayed for a second season. Steve Bruce has not yet achieved a second season, but as mentioned above he is currently making AA look good.
To answer the question, I would like Mr. Allam to sell to someone with better knowledge of sports business, as the club and business need properly marketing to realise its potential.
 
Muffinthegoat said:
If we had not been promoted, would you still regard him as our best ever owner? If we stay up but struggle next season (as in 2009/10) and he sacks SB would you still regard him as our best ever owner? I think this kind of thing should only be judged after he has left, whenever that may be. It could be argued that Phil Brown is our best ever manager because we were joint top of the Premier League and stayed for a second season. Steve Bruce has not yet achieved a second season, but as mentioned above he is currently making AA look good.
To answer the question, I would like Mr. Allam to sell to someone with better knowledge of sports business, as the club and business need properly marketing to realise its potential.
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I agree that it is too soon to form an opinion about AA's tenure, but as history will judge his overall conduct, we fans can judge his conduct on what he is doing to our club on a day to day basis.

I am not sure I agree about having someone in charge with a sporting brain.
I think we have it pretty perfect as it is.
The last thing we/SB wants/needs is an interfering owner, picking the team and telling SB what team to put out.
I think SB has AA's trust in that regard.
 
TigerFILEY said:
Maybe not the right place for this question...?

Just wondering who wants Assem Allam to stay as our owner and who doesn't ?

I want him to stay as in my opinion he is our best owner since Harold Needler..
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I am not sure now.
I am thankful for what he did to save the club, but he has fractured the fans with his name change malarkey and his spat with the council.
I don't like the fact that he is charging us interest on the monies loaned to us. Maybe it would have been better to have let us sink into liquidation, then we could have started again.
 
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