I've never held them up to be paragons of virtue. Not once. I'm more than aware of their monstrous activities.
What i did was highlight the difference in how we deal with illegal migrants from particular countries.
Off Topic Migrant crisis
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What i did was highlight the difference in how we deal with illegal migrants from particular countries.
You are equating being very poor to being the lowest of the low. It really doesn’t work like that
OK. What is your point then ?
No one is saying they are the poorest or the most despised.
We are saying they are criminal scum who should be locked up, given absolutely f*ck all and immediately sent back to where they came from.
Do you disagree ?
The Afghan, Syrian, Palestinian and African Moslems in particular are looked on in the same way as travellers are looked on here. They might have money but nobody wants them around because too many are rotten and defile the image of the decent ones. And let's not forget the underlying fact that everyone who has come here illegally has shown an inclination to break the law so should be treated as a criminal rather than pampered.
Not even the most ardent liberal wants illegal migrants living next door. No one wants them here. No one asked for them to come here. They are invaders. Invaders should be repelled. Do we repel them? No, we give them bed and board, free medical care and pocket money. How do they repay us? Crime and degradation.
Is every illegal migrant a thief or sex pest? No. But some are, meaning they all need to be placed in secure camps before removal. This government, and those before it, should not be taking risks with women and girls' safety. We have enough of our own dross without importing more.
As mentioned before, my London neighbours are from Ghana, Bangladesh, Thailand and other places. They came and did everything by the book. They are just as fed up with the situation as I am.
Is every illegal migrant a thief or sex pest? No. But some are, meaning they all need to be placed in secure camps before removal. This government, and those before it, should not be taking risks with women and girls' safety. We have enough of our own dross without importing more.
As mentioned before, my London neighbours are from Ghana, Bangladesh, Thailand and other places. They came and did everything by the book. They are just as fed up with the situation as I am.
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Not sure anyone has said they want illegal immigrants here.
I personally have an issue when there is blanket anti-immigrant language though (one of my reasons for despising Farage).
I personally have an issue when there is blanket anti-immigrant language though (one of my reasons for despising Farage).
Farage won't deport all the illegals. Like all politicians, he will water down his policies to fit the mainstream.
To be honest, I have no faith in any party. This country is going downhill at a rapid rate, yet no one has the stones to halt the slide.
Get out while you can.
Leaving is more for you youngsters, not old sods like me. If you have the means, get out to a country that has some sanity left.
I'll not be far behind.
If I do move to Poland, which has been in my mind for a few years now, I'll still be able to fly back for the football.
In the meantime, I need to organise property, business, family matters and suchlike. But it will be within the year.
I did think about the States, but it's simply too far from family, friends and football. I'd take all my kin if they'd agree to it.
It annoys that I feel this way. Old Blighty is still the greatest nation of all. Sometimes.
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South Carolina is where I'd go in the States. You can get lost there. Miles upon miles of peace and harmony. It is stunning too. But, as I say, it's too far.Poland
US
I have my eye on an apartment in Warsaw, close to the Ghetto Museum. It is a superb city - clean, safe, well-ordered and beautiful.
Have you been to Poland?
Nope but it’s on my to do list. Wife lived there and said it was great a part from all the foreigners (joke)
All unscheduled boat arrivals across the channel are illegal immigrants (as are lorry stowaways and anyone else entering the UK without a visa or other lawful authority). And yet the majority of politicians are not calling for them all to be detained and deported. So while they are not stupid enough to say verbally that they want illegal immigrants here, by accepting that we do get thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants each year but not calling for their immediate deportation, they are effectively saying that they want illegal immigrants here.
And Farage doesn’t want a blanket ban on immigration and never has. I appreciate you haven’t said that he does in your post, but that is how he is incorrectly portrayed by many on the left.
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Yes.
I absolutely disagree that all illegal migrants are criminal scum.
That simple statement denies reality, and absolves anyone who thinks it from having to engage their conscience over what comes next.
Yes, a minority of illegal migrants do fall into anyone's definition of criminal scum.
But isn't it so much easier just to say that they all do.
And that they should all be treated the same.
Dehumanisation is a simple solution to a complex problem. There is no justice in it. No fairness.
It belongs to this new age, where justice and fairness have no meaning anymore, as they are just too inconvenient.
Dehumanising people is the first step towards persecuting them.
Once it is accepted that one group of people can be abused because they don't fit our definition of Human beings, that excuse can then be used to persecute anyone.
Any group. Any race. Any religion.
Six million Jewish people.
Hundreds of thousands of Romani Gypsies.
Hundreds of thousands of disabled and mentally ill people.
Men, women and children.
Murdered because they were considered criminal scum, or sub-human.
That is the legacy of dehumanisation.
As the Holocaust passes beyond living memory, the conditions that led to it are coming around again.
Despite everything that was recorded, all the testimony taken, to ensure something like that could never happen again.
We have learned nothing.
The first step towards the slaughters in Bosnia, Rwanda, Chechnya, Myanmar, the Marsh Arabs in Iraq, the Uyghurs in China.
Dehumanisation. The labelling of entire religious, cultural, ethnic groups as criminal scum.
The Human rights conventions that were created after the Second World War. The United Nations itself.
These came into being in order that mass murder under the excuse that victims were not Human would never happen again.
Now the UK prepares to withdraw from those conventions.
To take back the 'right' to persecute, abuse and kill people it can define as not Human.
Not in the image of the Master Race.
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Sorry Lardi, I simply can't agree. I have seen refugee camps in my years of travelling the world. The genuine refugees and the chancers are separate groups. In Hong Kong there was a riot at Kai Tak camp when inmates from North Vietnam celebrated Communist occasions much the annoyance of South Vietnamese fleeing the invasion from the North. The North Vietnamese had heard that if they pretended to be fleeing they would be resettled overseas and get an easier life. Lots of them returned to Vietnam for business or holidays once they had become foreign nationals. Not many South Vietnamese did. We have seen it in the West with so-called refugees visiting their countries of origin in absolute safety.
These people are being brought into Europe because someone wants them here. The indigenous people don't but they have no say in it. They just see their taxes spent and resources used to give a life to people who have entered this country by breaking the law.
I am glad I am old and unlikely to see the end that is inevitable if the young generation doesn't start to understand. But they never will because of the downgraded education now received by the majority.
These people are being brought into Europe because someone wants them here. The indigenous people don't but they have no say in it. They just see their taxes spent and resources used to give a life to people who have entered this country by breaking the law.
I am glad I am old and unlikely to see the end that is inevitable if the young generation doesn't start to understand. But they never will because of the downgraded education now received by the majority.
You could not get any more different than the Jews of the 1930s/40s and the migrants of today. To even suggest there is some correlation is ridiculous. Even Roma people have never had it so good; they are like a protected species these days.
These so-called refugees are placed in hotels (some luxurious), given medical care, food, clothes, phones and pocket money, all out of the taxpayer's purse. They are treated better than our own. And that is why people are frustrated.
Some migrants commit the most heinous acts against the most vulnerable in society. Remove this risk by placing all the migrants in camps, to be administered by the army. We simply cannot have undocumented men wandering the streets looking to purloin, assault and even murder.
As mentioned, we have enough homegrown offenders without importing more.
The principle is the same.
If we went back through this thread, how many times would we find illegal migrants be called people?
Like it or not, they are people.
Only here they are usually called scum, criminals, beings, animals, creatures etc.
All descriptions which seek to mark them out as not people.
In exactly the same way that the Jews in 1930's Germany were marked out as different.
Treacherous. Untrustworthy. Subversive. Not really German. Not really Human.
So making their mistreatment (and ultimately much worse) less of a burden on the conscience of the average non-Jewish German citizen.
I don't like illegal migrants.
I would like our borders to be secure, and for the boat crossings to be stopped. Not that I can see how, in a safe manner.
But I'm not going to kid myself that those migrants are not Human beings.
It may be very inconvenient in practical terms, but it is the truth.
I'm not going to persuade myself that those people are not Human by insulting and degrading them.
And I'm not going to tell my conscience that I don't care what harm comes to them, because before anything else I do not consider the life of any Human being - regardless of race, culture, religion, orientation or any other factor - is worth less than my own life.
Once I abandon that belief, there is no end to the suffering I can cause, or support being caused, in the name of convenience or National pride or religious doctrine.
I find it deeply saddening that the UK as a Nation will likely soon abandon that belief.
When we leave the Human Rights conventions, then legally you and I will only be Human beings until the British Government says we are not.
If we went back through this thread, how many times would we find illegal migrants be called people?
Like it or not, they are people.
Only here they are usually called scum, criminals, beings, animals, creatures etc.
All descriptions which seek to mark them out as not people.
In exactly the same way that the Jews in 1930's Germany were marked out as different.
Treacherous. Untrustworthy. Subversive. Not really German. Not really Human.
So making their mistreatment (and ultimately much worse) less of a burden on the conscience of the average non-Jewish German citizen.
I don't like illegal migrants.
I would like our borders to be secure, and for the boat crossings to be stopped. Not that I can see how, in a safe manner.
But I'm not going to kid myself that those migrants are not Human beings.
It may be very inconvenient in practical terms, but it is the truth.
I'm not going to persuade myself that those people are not Human by insulting and degrading them.
And I'm not going to tell my conscience that I don't care what harm comes to them, because before anything else I do not consider the life of any Human being - regardless of race, culture, religion, orientation or any other factor - is worth less than my own life.
Once I abandon that belief, there is no end to the suffering I can cause, or support being caused, in the name of convenience or National pride or religious doctrine.
I find it deeply saddening that the UK as a Nation will likely soon abandon that belief.
When we leave the Human Rights conventions, then legally you and I will only be Human beings until the British Government says we are not.
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Maybe you could take in a couple of refugees and put them up in your spare room. Perhaps throw in three meals a day, that sort of thing.
In fact, any left-leaning person could do the same. We'd save an absolute fortune on hotel bills.
Let's make it a policy and see how many out there really do care about the plight of refugees. Or is it a case of not-in-my-backyard?
The Jews in 1930s Europe hadn't just arrived en masse, they had been there for generations. The pogrom against them would be analogous to a sudden pogrom here against the Huguenots who settled here centuries ago after persecution in France.
There is no conceivable comparison between them and chancers who are illegally breaking into this country, causing social and economic mayhem.
I make no apology for my feelings of utter contempt for these people and my wish that they be rounded up and deported as quickly as possible, being held in Spartan camps until they can be forced out or recognise that they might have better luck elsewhere.
There is no conceivable comparison between them and chancers who are illegally breaking into this country, causing social and economic mayhem.
I make no apology for my feelings of utter contempt for these people and my wish that they be rounded up and deported as quickly as possible, being held in Spartan camps until they can be forced out or recognise that they might have better luck elsewhere.
Another post which is so far from the reality of the situation it is hard to know where to start.
Lardi, we are not talking about the Holocaust, Jews, Gypsys, the disabled, the mentally ill, Any Group, Any Race, Any Religion.
Nor are we talking about Bosnia, Rwanda, Chechnya, Myanmar, Iraq, nor China.
You bring in all these examples from history and try to use them to encourage a sense of outrage, repulsion and false empathy but they are simply not relevant to the situation we are talking about.
You are trying to equate what happened to the Jews in the Second World War to the criminal, illegal immigrants who are entering our country, being housed, fed, watered, given free accommodation, spending money, free health care, free dentistry, free transport, free training, free legal advice etc etc etc paid for out of the taxes paid by hard-working British people including those who have migrated here legally, who are then defrauded, attacked, stabbed, raped and butchered by these criminals.
You try to equate those Jews with this criminal scum ?
Sorry but that’s completely illogical and yet again would require so many leaps, bounds and actions that will never happen, to become true, that it is just fantasy. If you are trying to say that the UK authorities will one day round up these illegal immigrants and take them to gas chambers in Dover or Margate then you are losing touch with reality in my opinion. I actually don’t believe that that is what you are saying you think will happen, it’s just a means of justifying not tackling the problem because tackling the problem requires a bit of strength and determination and isn’t easy.
Every illegal immigrant in this country is a criminal. Just because we are so overwhelmed by the numbers that we can’t prosecute them doesn’t alter that fact. You’ve said yourself that they are not poor and that they pay thousands of pounds to travel agents before they get here. Ask yourself why they do that when they can pay a fraction of that price and enter the country legally and then claim asylum once they are here, presenting all their evidence, all their identity documents and all their verifiable examples of persecution, to UK immigration authorities.
The answer is simple - they are not fleeing persecution, death threats, war - they are economic migrants who want an easier life living on the proceeds of crime and the benefits paid by hard working British tax payers like all of us on here.
Those genuinely fleeing persecution, death threats, war and who want to come here to integrate, work and contribute without poncing off us or murdering us, are welcome here as they always have been.
But you just don’t seem to be able to see the difference between the two completely separate groups.
We're never going to see eye to eye on this.
Even though we're using the same language there is no understanding between us.
No point continuing to debate the subject in my view.
I just wish the people in question would not all be called scum, creatures, beings and all kinds of other insulting dehumanizing terms.
But I suppose you and others feel it is necessary.