"I wont even waste my time embarrassing you again. Its cruel."
Looks like the opposite is happening here.
Looks like the opposite is happening here.
Man Utd flotation?
- Thread starter Enricky.
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We got off on the wrong foot today but you are a fairly decent well rounded poster.
Still a **** though, naturally
nothing to do with that post in the quote btw, just an opinion. Dont expect me to agree with you though on things
Agreeing on everything would mean there would be no debate. Therefore the point of the forum would be lost. I'm happy to have constructive debates on here.
Lets agree to disagree...Agreed.
Let one of the less ******ed posters reply, you started ok and then you said ' I've not seen your ginger froggy owners doing anything to grow the business ' and it was well, laughable
Agreeing on everything would mean there would be no debate. Therefore the point of the forum would be lost. I'm happy to have constructive debates on here.
Lets agree to disagree...Agreed.
Agreed.
I have my doubts about FSG. BUT, they have paid off our drbts, including the stadium debt, and they didn'y use a leverage buy-out to obtain us. Providing they never take loans out against us, I'm prepared to be patient, though I do think we'll need a new stadium in the next five years, even if we share one with the Shight.
look, bottom line with the Glazers is that you've won four leagues and a CL with them, and Slurguson loves them. They've also taken close on a £1bn in interest payments, from what I read in the Telegraph last month. I shudder to think what more you'd have achieved if you'd have had that money to spend on your squad, I do. If you'd spent it on OT it'd be bigger than the Maracana with a 1000 exec boxes... scarry!
So, considering our mauling by the well-meaning but thoroughly incompetent and finally mendacious Yanks we did have (or, tbf Yank as in Hicks, because it became obvious to Gillett to get out 18 months before Armaggedon, but Hicks kept him hostage), and given these Yanks are being ultra-cautious for now (which is okay, because they havent got the cash to compete with City and Chelsea, and after being one day from Admin I'm rather thankful for that) the Glazer business is none of our beeswax. But for 1 billion reasons given, long may they reign at Old Trafford.
look, bottom line with the Glazers is that you've won four leagues and a CL with them, and Slurguson loves them. They've also taken close on a £1bn in interest payments, from what I read in the Telegraph last month. I shudder to think what more you'd have achieved if you'd have had that money to spend on your squad, I do. If you'd spent it on OT it'd be bigger than the Maracana with a 1000 exec boxes... scarry!
So, considering our mauling by the well-meaning but thoroughly incompetent and finally mendacious Yanks we did have (or, tbf Yank as in Hicks, because it became obvious to Gillett to get out 18 months before Armaggedon, but Hicks kept him hostage), and given these Yanks are being ultra-cautious for now (which is okay, because they havent got the cash to compete with City and Chelsea, and after being one day from Admin I'm rather thankful for that) the Glazer business is none of our beeswax. But for 1 billion reasons given, long may they reign at Old Trafford.
Not entirely sure it's accurate to say they cleared the debt. The banks made clearing the debt a condition of the sale, it wasn't FSG's choice. It would be like buying a repossessed house at an auction and claiming you just paid off the mortgage. But I digress.
Imo the IPO can only be a good thing. Less debt, less Glazer ownership, lower interest payments. Also, if rumours are true then Uncle Malcolm is circling the drain, and the IPO is an effort to test the waters so the six kids can sell up before he croaks and get their inheritance in cash, rather than each getting 1/6th of a football club that only two of them actually seem to care about.
Either way, I'd rather the Glazers got their pound of flesh from selling off their own shares instead of taking money out of the club's bank account like certain Liverpool fans were predicting they would a couple of years back
In general I reckon this is the beginning of the end for the Glazers. Now they have the Chevrolet sponsorship sorted the only real extra value they can make from the club is when they renew the kit deal. So I reckon they'll sell a bit more of the club next year, then once the new kit sponsorship is sorted they'll probably wait till the market hits a peak and then sell the lot and **** off back to Tampa with a big wad of cash to spend on sunscreen and hair dye. That's what I'd do anyway
Not entirely sure it's accurate to say they cleared the debt. The banks made clearing the debt a condition of the sale, it wasn't FSG's choice. It would be like buying a repossessed house at an auction and claiming you just paid off the mortgage. But I digress.
Imo the IPO can only be a good thing. Less debt, less Glazer ownership, lower interest payments. Also, if rumours are true then Uncle Malcolm is circling the drain, and the IPO is an effort to test the waters so the six kids can sell up before he croaks and get their inheritance in cash, rather than each getting 1/6th of a football club that only two of them actually seem to care about.
Either way, I'd rather the Glazers got their pound of flesh from selling off their own shares instead of taking money out of the club's bank account like certain Liverpool fans were predicting they would a couple of years back
In general I reckon this is the beginning of the end for the Glazers. Now they have the Chevrolet sponsorship sorted the only real extra value they can make from the club is when they renew the kit deal. So I reckon they'll sell a bit more of the club next year, then once the new kit sponsorship is sorted they'll probably wait till the market hits a peak and then sell the lot and **** off back to Tampa with a big wad of cash to spend on sunscreen and hair dye. That's what I'd do anyway
You ain't got no hair, and there is no sun in Manchester.
Its who they sell too that should be the biggest concern of all.
Our next owners could very well make the glazers look like gods or like the evil scum many already think.
I see them as business men who run a business. Its unfortunate its my club but business is business and they are pretty good at it, debt aside.
Rather have them than any of the money clubs owners, no question, we aint a toy, we are a club first and a business second. Nothing more!
Our next owners could very well make the glazers look like gods or like the evil scum many already think.
I see them as business men who run a business. Its unfortunate its my club but business is business and they are pretty good at it, debt aside.
Rather have them than any of the money clubs owners, no question, we aint a toy, we are a club first and a business second. Nothing more!
"Not entirely sure it's accurate to say they cleared the debt. The banks made clearing the debt a condition of the sale, it wasn't FSG's choice. It would be like buying a repossessed house at an auction and claiming you just paid off the mortgage. But I digress."
Okay then, for the pedants on here, the debt was, by and large, cleared. This total debt interest payment figure over the Glazers' eight years, I definitey read in the Telegraph last month that it's $1bn, but all the posters on these boards, even Liverpool ones, seem to be suggesting that the figure is £500m. Don't want to split hairs, but does anyone know the irrefutable figure, with sources?
Okay then, for the pedants on here, the debt was, by and large, cleared. This total debt interest payment figure over the Glazers' eight years, I definitey read in the Telegraph last month that it's $1bn, but all the posters on these boards, even Liverpool ones, seem to be suggesting that the figure is £500m. Don't want to split hairs, but does anyone know the irrefutable figure, with sources?
"They overestimated the willingness of the fan base to go buy the stock. So it's kind of sitting there right now," said Francis Gaskins, editor of IPOdesktop.com. "If they don't have any buyers now at this price, why would they have any buyers (next week)."
"It's surprising to me that they got it away given the structure. The ownership structure seems inappropriate to me for this sort of company. I don't see much in it for the outside investor who has no control," said Tim Jenkinson, a professor of finance at the Saïd Business School, University of Oxford.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/08/10/uk-manchesterunited-ipo-stock-idUKBRE8790OF20120810
"It's surprising to me that they got it away given the structure. The ownership structure seems inappropriate to me for this sort of company. I don't see much in it for the outside investor who has no control," said Tim Jenkinson, a professor of finance at the Saïd Business School, University of Oxford.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/08/10/uk-manchesterunited-ipo-stock-idUKBRE8790OF20120810
Not entirely sure it's accurate to say they cleared the debt. The banks made clearing the debt a condition of the sale, it wasn't FSG's choice. It would be like buying a repossessed house at an auction and claiming you just paid off the mortgage. But I digress.
Imo the IPO can only be a good thing. Less debt, less Glazer ownership, lower interest payments. Also, if rumours are true then Uncle Malcolm is circling the drain, and the IPO is an effort to test the waters so the six kids can sell up before he croaks and get their inheritance in cash, rather than each getting 1/6th of a football club that only two of them actually seem to care about.
Either way, I'd rather the Glazers got their pound of flesh from selling off their own shares instead of taking money out of the club's bank account like certain Liverpool fans were predicting they would a couple of years back
In general I reckon this is the beginning of the end for the Glazers. Now they have the Chevrolet sponsorship sorted the only real extra value they can make from the club is when they renew the kit deal. So I reckon they'll sell a bit more of the club next year, then once the new kit sponsorship is sorted they'll probably wait till the market hits a peak and then sell the lot and **** off back to Tampa with a big wad of cash to spend on sunscreen and hair dye. That's what I'd do anyway
Good attempt at a defence there Swarbs but rather on the defensively weak side. I said at the time that the floatation document was released that Us sentiment appeared negative. Today's lukewarm float appears to confirm that. For me the basis of the floatation was wrong for the major US investors. The Galzers need to cede more control and the return be directed towards reducing the debt and investing in players for it to be more attractive - but that's only my opinion.
The real problem for United is which way will the Glazers jump now?
The whole thing has been setup to launder money (in this case debt) through the club. The floatation is a win-win for the Glazers as they are pocketing half of the cash and paying off the debt with the rest.... The debt isnt the clubs debt its the Glazers debt lol So they are taking it from both ends. I can't believe that the FA are allowing a team to run in this way. Effectively the club is just a cash-cow for the Glazers and for as long as they please. Man Utd fans will tell you that they prefer this type of ownership to a the kind down the road at City but at least the latter invest in the playing side of things. Ronaldo money?? WTF has that gone??
I personally think that any investment of this nature in a football team is crazy. The value of the club rises and falls based on the performance on the pitch. The club based its floatation on the past 5 seasons which have been fruitful but anyone with an ounce of football knowledge knows that Man Utd are probably not going to win the EPL again for a while yet so what happens to the keen investors then?? When the time comes and Fergie decides to leave I think they will face the toughest time they have had in the last 30 years. Finding a top class manager that is prepared to work with such financial constraints.
I dont like Man Utd as much as the next man lol but I feel for the fans that are being raped week in week out to line the pockets of the Glazers.
I personally think that any investment of this nature in a football team is crazy. The value of the club rises and falls based on the performance on the pitch. The club based its floatation on the past 5 seasons which have been fruitful but anyone with an ounce of football knowledge knows that Man Utd are probably not going to win the EPL again for a while yet so what happens to the keen investors then?? When the time comes and Fergie decides to leave I think they will face the toughest time they have had in the last 30 years. Finding a top class manager that is prepared to work with such financial constraints.
I dont like Man Utd as much as the next man lol but I feel for the fans that are being raped week in week out to line the pockets of the Glazers.
Not really a defence dave, just my opinion. As usual, you talk a good talk but the facts don't back it up. The shares barely moved from $14 on the first day of trading, so whatever negative sentiment there is claimed to be no investor is willing to put their money where their mouth is and lay into the shares. Besides which, what do Utd care if the shares crash? The money has already been made and the debt has been reduced. The club's financial position is stronger, nothing else really matters.
And as UIR and I have said before, if it wasn't for the debt the Glazers would be the perfect owners for Utd. No interference in the team; no calling the manager halfway round the world to explain anything; no firing managers for one bad season; no ridiculous statements to the press that come back and bite them in the ass; no DoF or need to debate every transfer; no infighting; and no buying players the manager doesn't want just cos the owner thinks they look good on TV. They let the manager manage, and run the commercial side of the club very well. Utd doesn't need anything more to succeed, and I wouldn't even consider trading the Glazers for Abramovich or FSG. I might have been happier with ADUG as owners, until Mancini's latest complaint about the owners and the lack of support he is getting.
1. swarbs is right about the share price looking ok.
2. swarbs is not right about the share price crashing and utd no caring.. sorry but that would never be a good thing.
3. if the glaziers (bar debt) are perfect owners... and i'm amazed you can say that.... then I suppose once ferguson eventually retires they'll hire the perfect man and buy them 20 players, if ferguson wants 5 players they say no problem and thats why you've still got giggs and scholes, and fletcher and carrick and hope cleverly is the one... cos they are who ferguson wants? not cos he can't afford to pay 250k per week to match rooney or the fees peopel want for top players? debt? ok then its all the debts fault.
4. re mancini... its obvious to me the city owners have decided to rest on their laurels and will have an abramovich style rude awakening coming cos if they think that side can compete on all fronts they are made despite how much they've sunk in (and half wasted)
2. swarbs is not right about the share price crashing and utd no caring.. sorry but that would never be a good thing.
3. if the glaziers (bar debt) are perfect owners... and i'm amazed you can say that.... then I suppose once ferguson eventually retires they'll hire the perfect man and buy them 20 players, if ferguson wants 5 players they say no problem and thats why you've still got giggs and scholes, and fletcher and carrick and hope cleverly is the one... cos they are who ferguson wants? not cos he can't afford to pay 250k per week to match rooney or the fees peopel want for top players? debt? ok then its all the debts fault.
4. re mancini... its obvious to me the city owners have decided to rest on their laurels and will have an abramovich style rude awakening coming cos if they think that side can compete on all fronts they are made despite how much they've sunk in (and half wasted)
you are right about the owners being good in terms of not interfering etc but surely you are worried about what they are doing in terms of finances and what could happen in the future. Things are still ok now as you have been so successful the last few years but the figures for last season with no trophies will be interesting.
As for the IPO only being a good thing, well yes it has reduced your debt slightly but the fact that this was the third attempt that still needed a late price cut to generate interest shows how investors are becoming worried about the finances and the underwhelming first day will only add to those investor concerns.
Fairly sure you won't do "a rangers" I also woulnt want you to but watching the glazers take money out of your club makes me happy as an opposition fan as it can never be a good thing for your club
You're right about the money being made but the floatation underwriters are looking down the barrel of a big loss! The real problem lies in any future floatation that may be planned. BUT the debt is still not written-off and the investment pile looks very short! Why should the Glazers interfere with the clubs operations? They have been able to milk you at your expense for long enough.
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