LFC Stats and Analytics

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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Matip's pressing efficiency is also significantly lower compared to 19/20. Again, is it because of the open space in front of them that is causing this?

It's a chain reaction as you say - once one player messes up and is beaten, the whole system is compromised.
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You have to factor in that sides have figured us out and also that the way some player share being tactically shifted is opening up the gaps.

Sides know that they can play in the channels against us now. We compound it with trent wandering off playing in central areas and then nobody covering. It's a 1 v 1 in effect out wide for matip or konate or gomez etc

The press works with 4 up plus full backs so that ought to be leaving 4 to cover if a side can break out until the team resets.

If the midfielder supposedly pressing is not keita then it doesn't work as well. We want to cover all passing lanes then if it does go wide go hard at the receiver with the full backs and look for throw or win the ball.

If it's easy beat that press as lanes are being left centrally then we just fine that theres gaps everywhere.

The issue is compounded as we dont actually want to keep the ball so much as risk it to gain from playing forward fast or flicking it about etc. If theres not two cms sitting in good positions (aka not ahead of the bloody ball) then theres huge gaps for 2 or 3 to cover.

We are letting in 2 goals a game to decent teams. (Not counted utd in that) it cannot continue.
 
sky sports did a bit on trent

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Nothing that some start form bang in the middle of goal but most come from right side and corners.

they then show this heat map
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This shows a slightly infield position but not majorly but leaves room for a midfielder to go wider than him

and changes per game are going up.
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and show through balls being played form deeper. not crosses

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and increases in XA



funnily they do nothing on the stats about goals fling in the other end.

My problem is that they make this quote: "That was kind of what went wrong in that first half. Standing in there and then trying to find space rather than going in there unexpectedly and confusing the opposition and just feeling the freedom to drift in there whenever I felt it was right."

This is the core point. the stats show trent is able to make more through balls from almost a wing half or inside forward position which the sky people equate is what De Bryune plays in.

the point is he comes into that space and disrupts. not stands in there. When trent stands in their he is no longer stretching play. If trent plays in there the RCM needs to go wider. Simly put if you run out of RB and go into a central position SOMEONE has to cover in transition. the right CB is getting destroyed consistently at this point with 2 and 3 players flooding so this balance has to be struck in trnasition.

The club is buying double the assists and through balls but it is conceding nearly 2 goals a game against top half sides. a balance needs to be found.
 
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moreinjuredthanowen said:
sky sports did a bit on trent

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Nothing that some start form bang in the middle of goal but most come from right side and corners.

they then show this heat map
You must log in or register to see images

This shows a slightly infield position but not majorly but leaves room for a midfielder to go wider than him

and changes per game are going up.
You must log in or register to see images


You must log in or register to see images



and show through balls being played form deeper. not crosses

You must log in or register to see images


You must log in or register to see images

and increases in XA



funnily they do nothing on the stats about goals fling in the other end.

My problem is that they make this quote: "That was kind of what went wrong in that first half. Standing in there and then trying to find space rather than going in there unexpectedly and confusing the opposition and just feeling the freedom to drift in there whenever I felt it was right."

This is the core point. the stats show trent is able to make more through balls from almost a wing half or inside forward position which the sky people equate is what De Bryune plays in.

the point is he comes into that space and disrupts. not stands in there. When trent stands in their he is no longer stretching play. If trent plays in there the RCM needs to go wider. Simly put if you run out of RB and go into a central position SOMEONE has to cover in transition. the right CB is getting destroyed consistently at this point with 2 and 3 players flooding so this balance has to be struck in trnasition.

The club is buying double the assists and through balls but it is conceding nearly 2 goals a game against top half sides. a balance needs to be found.
Click to expand...

In summary - this kid is special.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
And the manager needs to find the balance to use him.

Personally I'd be saying to fabinho hes not allowed make any forward runs or whoever is dm.

Make it a 3 at the back when we have the ball so the transition cannot be a 2 v 2. Give the cover.
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The manager did have a balance - look at when we won the CL and PL. The issue is that he's now asked the RCM to play more advanced which is leaving Trent and the right defensive area completely exposed.

Trent isn't the problem. Either we continue with the advanced RCM position and use a better option to play there (Elliot did a very good job) and expect us to continue being targeted there. Or Klopp changes the system and tells the RCM to hold back and not attack.

Personally, I think Trent and Mo can still attack at a world class level even without having the RCM providing further support. So we should have RCM hold and sit deeper to provide more defensive cover.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
The manager did have a balance - look at when we won the CL and PL. The issue is that he's now asked the RCM to play more advanced which is leaving Trent and the right defensive area completely exposed.

Trent isn't the problem. Either we continue with the advanced RCM position and use a better option to play there (Elliot did a very good job) and expect us to continue being targeted there. Or Klopp changes the system and tells the RCM to hold back and not attack.

Personally, I think Trent and Mo can still attack at a world class level even without having the RCM providing further support. So we should have RCM hold and sit deeper to provide more defensive cover.
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He is the problem when he just stands in the middle and is picked up while nobody covers his position. He needs to move into the centre seeing space not stand in it hoping someone finds him.

We need the triangle of players mate. Rcm, RF, RB. If trent come inside someone has to move to drag a player away to make space. Simple as that. The issue for me is if that RCM decides then he doesn't need to track the left full who sprints forward it's a problem.

If anything you want henderson to move wide to create the gap for trent to run into but he needs to sprint for the rb slot and trent needs to sprint to the rcm slot in transition.

This is the bit of intelligence we are lacking.

Yea run in trent at the right time but some needs to cover it after.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
He is the problem when he just stands in the middle and is picked up while nobody covers his position. He needs to move into the centre seeing space not stand in it hoping someone finds him.

We need the triangle of players mate. Rcm, RF, RB. If trent come inside someone has to move to drag a player away to make space. Simple as that. The issue for me is if that RCM decides then he doesn't need to track the left full who sprints forward it's a problem.

If anything you want henderson to move wide to create the gap for trent to run into but he needs to sprint for the rb slot and trent needs to sprint to the rcm slot in transition.

This is the bit of intelligence we are lacking.

Yea run in trent at the right time but some needs to cover it after.
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This is the issue - the RCM is caught in limbo at the moment. It looks like Klopp is really trying to get the most out of Salah and Trent because let's be honest, they're the most important attacking players we have.

Not to pick on Hendo but he is a problem - not him as a footballer but he's being asked to do a role which he cannot do. But even then, with the RCM attacking more, it will naturally leave more spaces behind.

If Klopp wants to persist, then great - we wil continue attacking at an incredible rate and scoring loads of goals. But it will come at the cost of conceding goals.

It's the trade off ...
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
This is the issue - the RCM is caught in limbo at the moment. It looks like Klopp is really trying to get the most out of Salah and Trent because let's be honest, they're the most important attacking players we have.

Not to pick on Hendo but he is a problem - not him as a footballer but he's being asked to do a role which he cannot do. But even then, with the RCM attacking more, it will naturally leave more spaces behind.

If Klopp wants to persist, then great - we wil continue attacking at an incredible rate and scoring loads of goals. But it will come at the cost of conceding goals.

It's the trade off ...
Click to expand...

When we are getting 1 extra goal a game and conceded 1.6 it's a problem. They have to do more in transition.

They all run at the ball irrespective of where they lose it.
 
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moreinjuredthanowen said:
When we are getting 1 extra goal a game and conceded 1.6 it's a problem. They have to do more in transition.

They all run at the ball irrespective of where they lose it.
Click to expand...

We had Thiago and Fabinho controlling the midfield yesterday, and Ox provided that real energy on the right side. Gave us much better balance.
 
I'm putting it out there ... we're long past the 'Trent is the best full back in the world' discussion.

The question now is - is he the best creator in world football? He is putting up KDB like numbers ... from full back!
 
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I have to say i am still wondering about the balance here.

this is all great going forward

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the results, not so good.

block 3 has seen us drop below the level even for top 4.

As arsenal are 5th still have to include them in the top half data

Bottom half
Games played 6
Goals scored 19
Goal conceded 3
Games won 5
Games drawn 1
Games lost 0
Win ratio 83%
Draw ratio 17%
Loss ratio 0%
Goals per game 3.166667
Goals conceded per game 0.5

top half:
Games played 6
Goals scored 16
Goal conceded 8
Games won 2
Games drawn 3
Games lost 1
Win ratio 33%
Draw ratio 50%
Loss ratio 17%
Goals per game 2.666666667
Goals conceded per game 1.333333333


how do we balance this high scoring situation with a more secure defensive line and stem the leaking of goals?

someone has to cover trent as he's not playing "full back" he is playing "trent's position" which is not a right back defending and just overlapping. he is high and wide or drifting into middle and theres a gap a mile wide all the time for sides to exploit.

I thought 343 but klopp would never go for it as it just takes a midfielder out and limits his ability to press right up

Alisson
Gomez/konate Matip VVD
Trent Henderson fabinho robertson
salah jota/firmino mane

we have absolutely everything needed right now to go 3 at the back. Can't see it ever happening.

We need to do something though as we can score but we are conceding far too many against the more organised top half teams like west ham, Brighton, city chelsea. 9 of our 16 goals against top half sides game v a diabolical utd and arsenal performance where nobody got close to our players and played suicide football.

IMO the game v norwich was harder than the arsenal game!
 
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Our pressing was really good vs Arsenal. Overall volumes were in line with the average (as expected since we had more possession) but our pressing wins were devastating - we took 8 shots as a result of pressing, which amounted to 1.15xG, and we launched 6 counter attacks.


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The individual pressing looked a lot better as well -

Ox was very active and had a good efficiency, along with Fabinho. Thiago was phenomenal with a 95% efficiency.

This is what we have been missing for a while - all 3 of the midfielders putting in a good shift and being efficient with the presses.

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Ox is super frustrating. On form he’s a great player and offers really drive and energy and a goal threat from outside the box and when pushes into it. Something we don’t have from any of the other midfielders. Unfortunately just not been consistent when given a chance. Think this could be his make or break season with us and hopefully puts in a good one.

28 now so should be in his prime and needs to be nailing down a regular spot
 
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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Our pressing was really good vs Arsenal. Overall volumes were in line with the average (as expected since we had more possession) but our pressing wins were devastating - we took 8 shots as a result of pressing, which amounted to 1.15xG, and we launched 6 counter attacks.


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Click to expand...

Candy/baby level stuff. So easy
 
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InBiscanWeTrust said:
Ox is super frustrating. On form he’s a great player and offers really drive and energy and a goal threat from outside the box and when pushes into it. Something we don’t have from any of the other midfielders. Unfortunately just not been consistent when given a chance. Think this could be his make or break season with us and hopefully puts in a good one.

28 now so should be in his prime and needs to be nailing down a regular spot
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No, hes not exactly rampaging if a side shuts the lanes off. He becomes largely anonymous and waits for the ball to be given to him rather than hunt it.

So much space left by arsenal and he was able to go do the pressing job well so he looks a hero.

Behind him though fabinho is closing down avenues and arsenal were too willing to hold the ball until caught.
 
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