LEAVE OR REMAIN

[ImpSaint]

Sadly, this about echoes my feelings on the current state of affairs. But a vote to leave the EU, in my opinion, won't sort out the fundamental issue of the elite's robbing us all blind and laughing their way to the bank.
As DTLW said about the immigration issue, I feel like people are targeting the symptoms and not the cause when they vote to leave. If we stay in, I have hope that we can still make a difference.

But that ties into the Ford thing. The reason that a lot of these youngsters from Poland, Latvia, lithuania etc come here and to Germany is for jobs. At the same time the EU is loaning money to companies to take work from the EU to non EU. The way to slow down immigration would have been to create jobs in the poorer EU countries. So it is the EU itself that is driving the immigration to the UK.

As for Non EU immigration that is a valid question for our own government. Skilled workers filling skills shortages is fine and most people bar the racist element accept that without argument.

 

[fatletiss]

TBH if the vote is very close (whichever wins), all parties should pay attention....because half the population is unhappy. It would be better if there was an outstanding majority for one or the other.

What? You mean like an Political Party representing its people should? Nah, don't be silly

 

[fatletiss]

It's like voting to give Southampton FC away to Pompey. I thought a lot of jobs were lost in the area when the EU moved the Ford plant to Turkey .......... and people are actually voting for more of the same?

Incidentally George Osbourne had a big finger in that particular pie. No wonder he want you all to vote remain.

Oh, Ford didn't have a say in that then?


This whole thread is as bad as the campaigners and supports of each side. Each of us has thrown our arrow but not any advice on where the bandages may be.

 

[tomw24]

Remain for me as I value the importance of being able to cross any border within the EU without any hassle. I hope at some stage in the future we will join the euro once things settle down. As it is we are ripped off to exchange sterling to euro and vice versa. That should cease immediately

No. No. NO to joining the Euro. Ever.

 

[The Ides of March]

If Remain win the referendum, all Eurosceptic Tory MPs such as Redwood, Cash, Peter Bone and Bull**** Johnson should resign from the Tory Party and join UKIP. Wonder how many of them would win their seat standing as a UKIP candidate? Not many so basically these guys have conned people to vote Tory when the realityis their values are closely aligned to those of UKIP.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

If Remain win the referendum, all Eurosceptic Tory MPs such as Redwood, Cash, Peter Bone and Bull**** Johnson should resign from the Tory Party and join UKIP. Wonder how many of them would win their seat standing as a UKIP candidate? Not many so basically these guys have conned people to vote Tory when the realityis their values are closely aligned to those of UKIP.

Simplistic...sometimes people just happen to be going in the same direction. Doesn't mean they agree with every argument of their fellow travellers.

 

[Saint Sosa]

But why if we are this great block united together is our C of E agreeing to loans to take jobs outside of the EU? Why did the EU not loan the money to Lithuania or Latvia? Places that need jobs? Places that are losing their talent to richer countries because they have no jobs? Why do these loans go to non EU countries taking the jobs out of Europe?

But if we were to leave the EU we would have no input as to whether the EU grant these loans or not. As I said, the Ford plant here was unsustainable and a business decision was made to shut up shop and expand with cheaper labour in Turkey.

I'm sure there have been loans to Lithuania & Latvia to help job creation, but Ford don't have plants there so why would they use the money there? Bear in mind that Turkey is an associate member of the EU through the Ankara agreement, so in terms of trade it essentially is part of the EU.

You're also ignoring the fact that the Southampton plant received about £400m from the EIB in 2010, why would they continue to pump money in to a dead horse?

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Here's a thought .

I am reading on other 606 politics threads . talk of exit polls .

That ( in this instance ) is illegal . If the vote is for OUT or IN , could the relevant LOSING party call for a fresh poll ?

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

But if we were to leave the EU we would have no input as to whether the EU grant these loans or not. As I said, the Ford plant here was unsustainable and a business decision was made to shut up shop and expand with cheaper labour in Turkey.

I'm sure there have been loans to Lithuania & Latvia to help job creation, but Ford don't have plants there so why would they use the money there? Bear in mind that Turkey is an associate member of the EU through the Ankara agreement, so in terms of trade it essentially is part of the EU.

You're also ignoring the fact that the Southampton plant received about £400m from the EIB in 2010, why would they continue to pump money in to a dead horse?

In relation to Ford , I have it on VERY good authority , that the Re-deployment / Severance packages were VERY generous indeed .

 

[Archers Road]

Here's a thought .

I am reading on other 606 politics threads . talk of exit polls .

That ( in this instance ) is illegal . If the vote is for OUT or IN , could the relevant LOSING party call for a fresh poll ?

Banks will probably be conducting there own exit polls.

 

[Saint Sosa]

In relation to Ford , I have it on VERY good authority , that the Re-deployment / Severance packages were VERY generous indeed .

Oh yeah my friend who was made redundant walked out with over £150k in his pocket, they were very generous terms.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Oh yeah my friend who was made redundant walked out with over £150k in his pocket, they were very generous terms.

Friend of a friend who had worked there ALL his working life , Mortgage paid off , all debits erased & still never has to work again .

 

[Saintjoey]

Look at the people representing "leave" and then those representing "remain". It's a no brainier just on that front! Remain all the way

 

[ImpSaint]

Here's a thought .

I am reading on other 606 politics threads . talk of exit polls .

That ( in this instance ) is illegal . If the vote is for OUT or IN , could the relevant LOSING party call for a fresh poll ?

exit polls are not illegal nor is talk by individuals. media organisations are not allowed to talk about it hence channel 4s jokey show last year where they did an hour of comedy about not being able to talk about the subject.

You and I or anyone else can talk about these things and most of the articles up on the net are very careful not to try to persuade. People in the comments sections can say what they want and I daresay both sides will have their usual casuals active on their social media platforms. A small but very active percentage of posters on forums, facebook, twitter, disqus etc are not you or I talking from our own opinion but are dedicated party machine minions on there to direct the argument in their favour.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

exit polls are not illegal nor is talk by individuals. media organisations are not allowed to talk about it hence channel 4s jokey show last year where they did an hour of comedy about not being able to talk about the subject.

You and I or anyone else can talk about these things and most of the articles up on the net are very careful not to try to persuade. People in the comments sections can say what they want and I daresay both sides will have their usual casuals active on their social media platforms. A small but very active percentage of posters on forums, facebook, twitter, disqus etc are not you or I talking from our own opinion but are dedicated party machine minions on there to direct the argument in their favour.

I stand corrected .I thought in THIS instance , exit polls were illegal .



While the polls are open, it is a criminal offence for anyone, not just broadcasters, to publish anything about the way in which people have voted in the referendum, where that is based on information given by voters after they have voted.
That includes, of course, anything emerging from exit polls (which, by definition, are asking people how they actually voted), although the broadcasters themselves have not commissioned any exit polls for this vote.
In addition, no opinion poll on any issue relating to the referendum can be published by broadcasters until after the polls have closed.

 

[ImpSaint]

Look at the people representing "leave" and then those representing "remain". It's a no brainier just on that front! Remain all the way

And that is the crux of this. Are you voting for personalities or what you believe? That comment is bad as the Beebs angle on everything. Attack the personality rather than the subject.

 

[Saint Sosa]

Look at the people representing "leave" and then those representing "remain". It's a no brainier just on that front! Remain all the way

The last 4 PM's have all strongly backed remaining in the EU, we have a few racists, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson & Rupert Murdoch that want us to leave. It is very telling.

Also, Yougov did an interesting breakdown of demographics and their voting tendencies. People who have a maximum qualification of a GCSE are much more likely to want to leave the EU, along with Sun, Express, Mail readers.

 

[ImpSaint]

The last 4 PM's have all strongly backed remaining in the EU, we have a few racists, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson & Rupert Murdoch that want us to leave. It is very telling.

Also, Yougov did an interesting breakdown of demographics and their voting tendencies. People who have a maximum qualification of a GCSE are much more likely to want to leave the EU, along with Sun, Express, Mail readers.

False correlation. People who have a maximum qualification of GCSE are much more likely to be fighting for NMW jobs. You are insinuating they are all idiots and xenophobes.

 

[Saint Sosa]

False correlation. People who have a maximum qualification of GCSE are much more likely to be fighting for NMW jobs. You are insinuating they are all idiots and xenophobes.

From personal experience, they tend to be.

 

[Puck]

Reform of the EU? The EU is not going to reform any time soon. People have being saying it needs reform for years but none has been forthcoming. Juncker said yesterday "We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give." Even when something really REALLY obviously needs to change it doesn't happen. The European Parliament moving from Brussels to Strasbourg and back again every month is the most obvious example. It costs £130 million a year to move the entire operation between the two locations and the carbon emissions created are the same as driving 12,000 cars right the way around the world. The parliament itself has voted to abolish the move but the French veto the change every time so the madness continues. If you can't even get agreement to end something that absurd how can you expect real reform of the organisation?