leave her there
- Thread starter Rorschach
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More intelligent comments and people will weigh in on this decision, but I'll pointlessly share my ignorance anyway.
This has already turned into a lefty machine, and as a lefty myself it is equally fascinating, disturbing and comical to watch the infighting and cannibalism over this issue. It's akin to football supporting vs football fanship... who loves the club more and which opinion means more? You aren't a lefty if you think the child can come, but the mother can't... No! You aren't a lefty if the child and mother can come over, but the ISIS father cannot etc etc... My take is you aren't a lefty if you don't believe that the many outweigh the few and that while this case is incredibly well publicised, there are more pressing and time sensitive issues at hand that impact either life/death or more individuals, than saving this one person (whatever they/it identifies as
).
In 2016 there were around 70 or 80 people on death row, including convicted terrorists. The terrorists did not get the same level of public interest or empathy from politicians or the left and in fact, Mr Javid essentially told the US he didn't give a **** if two of them died. Why? They were young men, not pregnant young women. There will be a similar number on death row now, and this person hasn't even been tried of a crime yet (usually happens in the country in which they have committed said crime... then we intervene when the locals start raiding the the local Ropes R Us store).
As it is an incredibly sexist campaign due to it being a media interest piece, we have to forget all that apparently and take this case as special and this girl as more important than the many many British nationals struggling the world over. So we move to the next issue, that of responsibility. The age of criminal responsibility was 10 the last time I checked, and I believe cases have been tried below that age range, yet we term "grooming" up to the age of 15, thereafter you are suddenly responsible for your own actions in relation to sex... and terror (which must be overwhelming for people scared of sex)... that incongruity is the most fundamental aspect of this particular case and can only be assessed through trial and investigation, not Twitter's kangaroo court (before you think that is too "leftie", there have been many successful campaigns via social media to release prisoners overseas, and in this instance it is also inappropriate for the lefty machine to whirr into righteous action to bring this girl here with a hashtag).
I advocate that she is tried for her crimes where she is first, and is inducted into the care of the prison system there, rather than escaping any justice. Once the child has been born, I have no issues with the parents taking that child to this country, nor the individual returning to the UK after trial and prison. The point of prison is reformation (/treatment... currently worldwide prisons tend to fail on both counts). If Begum is then threatened with death, and only then, we should step in.
Off piste (and very much in danger of doing an ideological Michael Schumacher), I think if a couple of 15 year olds completed a massacre at a School, they would be portrayed as equally evil, rather than having been groomed. I also think it is too easy a position and far too problematic to reduce this situation to one of 15=child=groomed by Islamic monsters, as the fertive seeds of radicalisation will have been largely indoctrinated from a young age in all ISIS fighters. There will be few 25 year olds who suddenly think ISIS sounds like good crack, they are all groomed to a certain extent, and from the historical context the religion itself was essentially born of the desire to radicalise and inspire tribalism so that warriors united behind a fairly aggressive expansionist in Mohammed... all religions are warped to some degree, especially football club supporting, but Islam has radicalisation as an almost founding principle.
I expect someone with an IQ above 65 to tear all that to shreds though
This has already turned into a lefty machine, and as a lefty myself it is equally fascinating, disturbing and comical to watch the infighting and cannibalism over this issue. It's akin to football supporting vs football fanship... who loves the club more and which opinion means more? You aren't a lefty if you think the child can come, but the mother can't... No! You aren't a lefty if the child and mother can come over, but the ISIS father cannot etc etc... My take is you aren't a lefty if you don't believe that the many outweigh the few and that while this case is incredibly well publicised, there are more pressing and time sensitive issues at hand that impact either life/death or more individuals, than saving this one person (whatever they/it identifies as
).In 2016 there were around 70 or 80 people on death row, including convicted terrorists. The terrorists did not get the same level of public interest or empathy from politicians or the left and in fact, Mr Javid essentially told the US he didn't give a **** if two of them died. Why? They were young men, not pregnant young women. There will be a similar number on death row now, and this person hasn't even been tried of a crime yet (usually happens in the country in which they have committed said crime... then we intervene when the locals start raiding the the local Ropes R Us store).
As it is an incredibly sexist campaign due to it being a media interest piece, we have to forget all that apparently and take this case as special and this girl as more important than the many many British nationals struggling the world over. So we move to the next issue, that of responsibility. The age of criminal responsibility was 10 the last time I checked, and I believe cases have been tried below that age range, yet we term "grooming" up to the age of 15, thereafter you are suddenly responsible for your own actions in relation to sex... and terror (which must be overwhelming for people scared of sex)... that incongruity is the most fundamental aspect of this particular case and can only be assessed through trial and investigation, not Twitter's kangaroo court (before you think that is too "leftie", there have been many successful campaigns via social media to release prisoners overseas, and in this instance it is also inappropriate for the lefty machine to whirr into righteous action to bring this girl here with a hashtag).
I advocate that she is tried for her crimes where she is first, and is inducted into the care of the prison system there, rather than escaping any justice. Once the child has been born, I have no issues with the parents taking that child to this country, nor the individual returning to the UK after trial and prison. The point of prison is reformation (/treatment... currently worldwide prisons tend to fail on both counts). If Begum is then threatened with death, and only then, we should step in.
Off piste (and very much in danger of doing an ideological Michael Schumacher), I think if a couple of 15 year olds completed a massacre at a School, they would be portrayed as equally evil, rather than having been groomed. I also think it is too easy a position and far too problematic to reduce this situation to one of 15=child=groomed by Islamic monsters, as the fertive seeds of radicalisation will have been largely indoctrinated from a young age in all ISIS fighters. There will be few 25 year olds who suddenly think ISIS sounds like good crack, they are all groomed to a certain extent, and from the historical context the religion itself was essentially born of the desire to radicalise and inspire tribalism so that warriors united behind a fairly aggressive expansionist in Mohammed... all religions are warped to some degree, especially football club supporting, but Islam has radicalisation as an almost founding principle.
I expect someone with an IQ above 65 to tear all that to shreds though
You thick paddy ****..I said an IQ above 65 Comm
I'm with you on this Comm. What these people forget is that her and her ilk would happily kill us all, and that includes the bleeding hearts and their families. Her family says that she made a mistake, well **** that. A mistake is going out with the wrong lad or getting caught shoplifting. She joined a death cult which advocates the destruction of this country and all "disbelievers", which I believe is how she saw the severed heads. **** that, leave her be. If her family miss her that much, they can **** off and join her.
She has no love for this country so let her stay where she is
If she can impart information on how she was recruited then it could help stop other children going the same way.
I’m not forgetting that. I’m just looking at the situation rationally rather than going with the obvious popular view.
I'm looking at it rationally too. Doesn't change my mind.
She can be interrogated abroad. We do it all the time with terror suspects apparently. As I said before, get the info and **** her off.
I have thought quite a lot about this .
I think she should have to stay there , or at least not be allowed back here .
My main concern is that she may be trying to get back as a plant of ISIS ?
So she gets locked up , lots of ears to listen to her talking about out her points of view .
another part of me thinks she made her bed etc .
I think she should have to stay there , or at least not be allowed back here .
My main concern is that she may be trying to get back as a plant of ISIS ?
So she gets locked up , lots of ears to listen to her talking about out her points of view .
another part of me thinks she made her bed etc .
It's interesting when you look back on this story, especially taking on board people's claims of grooming or radicalisation, remembering the latter was denied by police.
I've mentioned in this thread where the three girls original disappearance was linked to at least two others, one from 2013 and another in 2014, before their eventual disappearance in 2015.
It appears back in February 2015, at least four possibly five other girls from Bethnal Green Academy had been identified as 'at risk' - The school has since changed it's name, but surely we ought to ask why was the school not looked at more closely.
Back in March 2015, five girls it was claimed by the Guardian were made wards of court, to prevent them travelling to Syria...https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...l-three-teenagers-syria-bethnal-green-academy
The last paragraph is worth noting that BGA had said it banned social media from it's classes, yet then go on to deny radicalisation did not happen on it's premises, which for a play on words is the opposite to what the police claimed, that radicalisation didn't happen. Seems to me a bit of buck passing is going on, no wonder these girls were at risk, failed by the system.
I've mentioned in this thread where the three girls original disappearance was linked to at least two others, one from 2013 and another in 2014, before their eventual disappearance in 2015.
It appears back in February 2015, at least four possibly five other girls from Bethnal Green Academy had been identified as 'at risk' - The school has since changed it's name, but surely we ought to ask why was the school not looked at more closely.
Back in March 2015, five girls it was claimed by the Guardian were made wards of court, to prevent them travelling to Syria...https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...l-three-teenagers-syria-bethnal-green-academy
The last paragraph is worth noting that BGA had said it banned social media from it's classes, yet then go on to deny radicalisation did not happen on it's premises, which for a play on words is the opposite to what the police claimed, that radicalisation didn't happen. Seems to me a bit of buck passing is going on, no wonder these girls were at risk, failed by the system.
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