Transfer Rumours January Transfers Thread

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I'll never defend Ashley, but the point is the club is entirely allowed to spend every penny it makes. Whether it makes enough, ask Ashley. Whether they spend it appropriately, ask Charnley. Whether they spend it wisely, ask Rafa.

Ashley's never allowed speculation. Not great for ambition, but we've never wavered from this in 11 years.
Charnley's one pisspot bloke doing all the administration, and without a lot of experience clearly gets a lot wrong.
Rafa spent a lot on a Championship squad, didn't bring in PL-capable quality and has bought poorly since then.

None of it's great. Let's hope we survive and see what new owners do.
 
Lord Jonjomort said:
I'll never defend Ashley, but the point is the club is entirely allowed to spend every penny it makes. Whether it makes enough, ask Ashley. Whether they spend it appropriately, ask Charnley. Whether they spend it wisely, ask Rafa.

Ashley's never allowed speculation. Not great for ambition, but we've never wavered from this in 11 years.
Charnley's one pisspot bloke doing all the administration, and without a lot of experience clearly gets a lot wrong.
Rafa spent a lot on a Championship squad, didn't bring in PL-capable quality and has bought poorly since then.

None of it's great. Let's hope we survive and see what new owners do.
Click to expand...

A more honest assessment from the usual delusions among our faithful.
 
I think one of our main issues is that despite the rhetoric many fans had at the start of the season of "low expectations" people are still getting upset at us struggling. We have a below par squad and a first team with had a solid base but no real quality to speak of. Any results we get need to be ground out and that's what we've been doing all season. It isn't pretty, in fact it's mostly very ugly, but we are currently keeping our head just above the parapet. We may go down, we may not, but we are exactly where we deserve to be in the league and I'll be pretty happy if we finish the season there.

If that is bad management then you have unrealistic expectations in my view.
 
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haslam said:
I think one of our main issues is that despite the rhetoric many fans had at the start of the season of "low expectations" people are still getting upset at us struggling. We have a below par squad and a first team with had a solid base but no real quality to speak of. Any results we get need to be ground out and that's what we've been doing all season. It isn't pretty, in fact it's mostly very ugly, but we are currently keeping our head just above the parapet. We may go down, we may not, but we are exactly where we deserve to be in the league and I'll be pretty happy if we finish the season there.

If that is bad management then you have unrealistic expectations in my view.
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This is basically what I think every time I read a post on the match day thread during the match. I just think football fans like to moan.
 
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I am Groot said:
Who both had more time in the Championship to build their promotion winning squads.
Click to expand...

Wagner had half a season more joining in the November of the previous season. He spent a whopping 0 that year...
Indeed Huddersfield only spent 635k the year before in the summer before he joined. We'll add it on for the craic though. That takes their grand spend to £5m to get out the championship and build a squad.

Hughton joined in Dec 2014. He spent 0 in the window. The following season he spent £13.45m to build his Championship promotion side foundation. He spent a further 8.75m the following season. Bringing his grand total to £22.2m to get out the championship and build a squad.

Hughton required 34% of the budget Rafa did. Wagner about 8% of the budget Rafa did. So even allowing them time of a season and a half in Hughtons case, or half a season in Wagners case, Rafa having to buy more players in one go and integrate them, I think it would be fair to say Rafa has perhaps not used his funds very wisely in comparison.

We then add in 64.60m by Hughton this season. 56.75m by Huddersfield. 44.3m by Benitez. Grand totals for their time at the club (drum roll please).

Wagner - Since Nov 2015 - 61.75m
Hughton - Since Dec 2014 - 86.8m
Benitez - Since March 2016 - 108.05m

So Rafa spent an extra 46.3m to get to this stage compared to Wagner. Having had the 1 less window (which Wagner spent 0 in).
Rafa spent an extra 21.25m to get to this stage compared to Hughton. Having had 3 less windows (Hughton had 0 spend in his first).

All that money to have one point more than Huddersfield and 2 less than Brighton. I'm not sure we've had value for money as fans. I can see why Mr Ashley is little frustrated with his constant demands. [HASHTAG]#badchequebookmanager[/HASHTAG]
 
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Captain Spack from Jarrow said:
Wagner had half a season more joining in the November of the previous season. He spent a whopping 0 that year...
Indeed Huddersfield only spent 635k the year before in the summer before he joined. We'll add it on for the craic though. That takes their grand spend to £5m to get out the championship and build a squad.

Hughton joined in Dec 2014. He spent 0 in the window. The following season he spent £13.45m to build his Championship promotion side foundation. He spent a further 8.75m the following season. Bringing his grand total to £22.2m to get out the championship and build a squad.

Hughton required 34% of the budget Rafa did. Wagner about 8% of the budget Rafa did. So even allowing them time of a season and a half in Hughtons case, or half a season in Wagners case, Rafa having to buy more players in one go and integrate them, I think it would be fair to say Rafa has perhaps not used his funds very wisely in comparison.

We then add in 64.60m by Hughton this season. 56.75m by Huddersfield. 44.3m by Benitez. Grand totals for their time at the club (drum roll please).

Wagner - Since Nov 2015 - 61.75m
Hughton - Since Dec 2014 - 86.8m
Benitez - Since March 2016 - 108.05m

So Rafa spent an extra 46.3m to get to this stage compared to Wagner. Having had the 1 less window (which Wagner spent 0 in).
Rafa spent an extra 21.25m to get to this stage compared to Hughton. Having had 3 less windows (Hughton had 0 spend in his first).

All that money to have one point more than Huddersfield and 2 less than Brighton. I'm not sure we've had value for money as fans. I can see why Mr Ashley is little frustrated with his constant demands. [HASHTAG]#badchequebookmanager[/HASHTAG]
Click to expand...
Just to speed this up..

I'll say: But he had to sell half his team and we'd been relegated.

You'll say: that's irrelevant

I'll say: He's halved the wage bill

You'll say: that's irrelevant

I'll say: something about having a keeper turned down on 40k wages (I always do)

And you'll post something like this
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There, just saved us a whole bunch of time!
 
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RobEllious said:
Just to speed this up..

I'll say: But he had to sell half his team and we'd been relegated.

You'll say: that's irrelevant

I'll say: He's halved the wage bill

You'll say: that's irrelevant

I'll say: something about having a keeper turned down on 40k wages (I always do)

And you'll post something like this
You must log in or register to see images



There, just saved us a whole bunch of time!
Click to expand...

No it is relevant. Very relevant actually because it further escalates the point about funds. I was leaving it out to be kind to the "Rafa Happy Clappers".

We still had a larger wage budget than those other clubs the entire time, and I think I've already mentioned allowing some leeway for the having to purchase more in one go which does present a managerial challenge of its own. Whichever way the RFC want to dress this up, it does not stack up. The guy has had more money, more wages, better facilities, more everything than those he is being compared to. The only thing he didn't have more of was competence in managing a football club apparently.

You cannot dispute this money angle. Its a fact as a supposedly great manager once said. I suppose the next argument will be "but he had players using up big wages he didn't want". Boo ****ing hoo. Now make yourself a full roast coffee and sniff it :biggrin::emoticon-0162-coffe
 
Captain Spack from Jarrow said:
No it is relevant. Very relevant actually because it further escalates the point about funds. I was leaving it out to be kind to the "Rafa Happy Clappers".

We still had a larger wage budget than those other clubs the entire time, and I think I've already mentioned allowing some leeway for the having to purchase more in one go which does present a managerial challenge of its own. Whichever way the RFC want to dress this up, it does not stack up. The guy has had more money, more wages, better facilities, more everything than those he is being compared to. The only thing he didn't have more of was competence in managing a football club apparently.

You cannot dispute this money angle. Its a fact as a supposedly great manager once said. I suppose the next argument will be "but he had players using up big wages he didn't want". Boo ****ing hoo. Now make yourself a full roast coffee and sniff it :biggrin::emoticon-0162-coffe
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Ah I get it now, you're keeping Mike sweet in the hope you can 'do a Charnley' and rise through the ranks.

I'd call it a terrible idea, but it's not completely out of the equation that Mike would do his staff recruitment on an internet forum.
 
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RobEllious said:
Ah I get it now, you're keeping Mike sweet in the hope you can 'do a Charnley' and rise through the ranks.

I'd call it a terrible idea, but it's not completely out of the equation that Mike would do his staff recruitment on an internet forum.
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Hey I wouldn't mind working for him, he appears to reward achievers. Something for Rafa to think about.

At least you haven't bothered to try and dispute the facts about his financial management and you've finally accepted he hasn't done as well as Wagner/Hughton for the money. Look Wagner will probably go down so maybe he has underspent. I'd be miffed if Rafa fails to be above Brighton though given the disparity in money spent on wages and transfer fees.
 
Captain Spack from Jarrow said:
Wagner had half a season more joining in the November of the previous season. He spent a whopping 0 that year...
Indeed Huddersfield only spent 635k the year before in the summer before he joined. We'll add it on for the craic though. That takes their grand spend to £5m to get out the championship and build a squad.

Hughton joined in Dec 2014. He spent 0 in the window. The following season he spent £13.45m to build his Championship promotion side foundation. He spent a further 8.75m the following season. Bringing his grand total to £22.2m to get out the championship and build a squad.

Hughton required 34% of the budget Rafa did. Wagner about 8% of the budget Rafa did. So even allowing them time of a season and a half in Hughtons case, or half a season in Wagners case, Rafa having to buy more players in one go and integrate them, I think it would be fair to say Rafa has perhaps not used his funds very wisely in comparison.

We then add in 64.60m by Hughton this season. 56.75m by Huddersfield. 44.3m by Benitez. Grand totals for their time at the club (drum roll please).

Wagner - Since Nov 2015 - 61.75m
Hughton - Since Dec 2014 - 86.8m
Benitez - Since March 2016 - 108.05m

So Rafa spent an extra 46.3m to get to this stage compared to Wagner. Having had the 1 less window (which Wagner spent 0 in).
Rafa spent an extra 21.25m to get to this stage compared to Hughton. Having had 3 less windows (Hughton had 0 spend in his first).

All that money to have one point more than Huddersfield and 2 less than Brighton. I'm not sure we've had value for money as fans. I can see why Mr Ashley is little frustrated with his constant demands. [HASHTAG]#badchequebookmanager[/HASHTAG]
Click to expand...
And the loans particularly for Huddersfield and the time blending the team together...

[HASHTAG]#liesdamnedliesandPouchysstatistics[/HASHTAG]
 
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I am Groot said:
And the loans particularly for Huddersfield and the time blending the team together...

[HASHTAG]#liesdamnedliesandPouchysstatistics[/HASHTAG]
Click to expand...

Agreed. Wagner did have it very hard as he had a lot of loans so actually the blending argument is no stronger for Rafa. In fact its worse because he had to send quite a few back at the end.

[HASHTAG]#Grootdiggingdeeper[/HASHTAG]
 
Captain Spack from Jarrow said:
Wagner had half a season more joining in the November of the previous season. He spent a whopping 0 that year...
Indeed Huddersfield only spent 635k the year before in the summer before he joined. We'll add it on for the craic though. That takes their grand spend to £5m to get out the championship and build a squad.

Hughton joined in Dec 2014. He spent 0 in the window. The following season he spent £13.45m to build his Championship promotion side foundation. He spent a further 8.75m the following season. Bringing his grand total to £22.2m to get out the championship and build a squad.

Hughton required 34% of the budget Rafa did. Wagner about 8% of the budget Rafa did. So even allowing them time of a season and a half in Hughtons case, or half a season in Wagners case, Rafa having to buy more players in one go and integrate them, I think it would be fair to say Rafa has perhaps not used his funds very wisely in comparison.

We then add in 64.60m by Hughton this season. 56.75m by Huddersfield. 44.3m by Benitez. Grand totals for their time at the club (drum roll please).

Wagner - Since Nov 2015 - 61.75m
Hughton - Since Dec 2014 - 86.8m
Benitez - Since March 2016 - 108.05m

So Rafa spent an extra 46.3m to get to this stage compared to Wagner. Having had the 1 less window (which Wagner spent 0 in).
Rafa spent an extra 21.25m to get to this stage compared to Hughton. Having had 3 less windows (Hughton had 0 spend in his first).

All that money to have one point more than Huddersfield and 2 less than Brighton. I'm not sure we've had value for money as fans. I can see why Mr Ashley is little frustrated with his constant demands. [HASHTAG]#badchequebookmanager[/HASHTAG]
Click to expand...

These numbers are a bit of a load of crap, though. There's so many other factors in play here our illustrious leader has impacted; how many youth players have found themselves getting a chance at Hudds or Brighton, vs. NUFC? How much investment has gone into facilities in and around those clubs over the years to get them to a point where they can compete? We've gone from buying Shearer to Gayle, from Robert to Ritchie, under Ashley's guidance.

Your numbers also need to be contextual for THIS season.

Hudds were allowed to add 15 (FIFTEEN) players across the Summer and January, spending £57m in the process.

Brighton have added 14 (FOURTEEN) spending around £65m in the process.

Neither club got relegated during the periods you mention so it's pretty obvious they won't have players to SELL for big numbers, hence the spending will be skewed. The point is when they got to the PL, they've been allowed to SPEND the money.

Newcastle United? Glad you asked. 8 (EIGHT) players for around £37m. You can't count the £7m purchase of Atsu as an addition, cos he was already here!!

It's ****ing ridiculous. Like your argument.
 
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Lord Jonjomort said:
These numbers are a bit of a load of crap, though. There's so many other factors in play here our illustrious leader has impacted; how many youth players have found themselves getting a chance at Hudds or Brighton, vs. NUFC? How much investment has gone into facilities in and around those clubs over the years to get them to a point where they can compete? We've gone from buying Shearer to Gayle, from Robert to Ritchie, under Ashley's guidance.

Your numbers also need to be contextual for THIS season.

Hudds were allowed to add 15 (FIFTEEN) players across the Summer and January, spending £57m in the process.

Brighton have added 14 (FOURTEEN) spending around £65m in the process.

Neither club got relegated during the periods you mention so it's pretty obvious they won't have players to SELL for big numbers, hence the spending will be skewed. The point is when they got to the PL, they've been allowed to SPEND the money.

Newcastle United? Glad you asked. 8 (EIGHT) players for around £37m. You can't count the £7m purchase of Atsu as an addition, cos he was already here!!

It's ****ing ridiculous. Like your argument.
Click to expand...

Head burying. These are facts. Not disputable. These are the figures in play for the various managers. Whichever way its dressed up, Rafa has got it wrong. The context of this season is ridiculous. Budgets are impacted by what your spend the year before obviously. Rafa thought money was better spent on getting out of the championship. He is allowed to spend what we generate. We generated a huge amount of money from sales. If he had spent what Huddersfield did he'd have had we had to buy 103m to spend on the team this season. Not realistic because we had so many players is the cry. Huddersfield added 15 players to their first team squad though...

More than Newcastle.

Even say Brighton if he'd spent the 22m they spent over two seasons to get out (signing 21 players - thats right an entire squad). Rafa would still have had 86m to spend this season. I don't want to hear Ashley wouldn't have given him it or some other made up excuse, because in reality he has. I wonder where we'd be if we'd been spending that extra 42m on PL quality players?

I think the argument for Rafa is ridiculous to be honest. This is backed up by facts not the RHC silly made up stuff,

The blokes a ****ing charlatan fooling naive fans. He's had the money and has zero excuses.
 
Captain Spack from Jarrow said:
Head burying. These are facts. Not disputable. These are the figures in play for the various managers. Whichever way its dressed up, Rafa has got it wrong. The context of this season is ridiculous. Budgets are impacted by what your spend the year before obviously. Rafa thought money was better spent on getting out of the championship. He is allowed to spend what we generate. We generated a huge amount of money from sales. If he had spent what Huddersfield did he'd have had we had to buy 103m to spend on the team this season. Not realistic because we had so many players is the cry. Huddersfield added 15 players to their first team squad though...

More than Newcastle.

Even say Brighton if he'd spent the 22m they spent over two seasons to get out (signing 21 players - thats right an entire squad). Rafa would still have had 86m to spend this season. I don't want to hear Ashley wouldn't have given him it or some other made up excuse, because in reality he has. I wonder where we'd be if we'd been spending that extra 42m on PL quality players?

I think the argument for Rafa is ridiculous to be honest. This is backed up by facts not the RHC silly made up stuff,

The blokes a ****ing charlatan fooling naive fans. He's had the money and has zero excuses.
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Keep it up mate, idiots like you chased out Robson as the happy clappers settled for the failure of fifth place. Tell me when you have found another charlatan multi trophy winner who took out poor relegated squad to the championship title ready to step into this shambles.
 
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