Transfer Rumours January Transfer Thread

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SydneyTiger14 said:
Only thing I'd like even more would be all Academy associated costs are deducted from FFP - including academy graduates in the first team. While getting a big fee for an academy player would give one benefit, another should be that academy graduates are basically excluded from FFP calcs in the first team. As PLT says, I don't love the fact that kids who have been at a club their entire lives are pushed out the door just to balance the books. If you got a benefit for keeping them as well there'd at least be some incentive to develop good academy prospects and then fill your first team with them.
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The incentive is there with registration rules in a way. I get the point is not great that some academy prospects may not play for their hometown club but the main clubs that will use this are the big clubs that would hoard youth talent anyway and just keep loaning them out. At least this way some talent wont just rot on the benches and get a permanent move away like Philogene or on an even higher example Cole Palmer. Clubs at our level will give chances to their own youth prospects because its beneficial to do so.
 
HCAFCHangout said:
The incentive is there with registration rules in a way. I get the point is not great that some academy prospects may not play for their hometown club but the main clubs that will use this are the big clubs that would hoard youth talent anyway and just keep loaning them out. At least this way some talent wont just rot on the benches and get a permanent move away like Philogene or on an even higher example Cole Palmer. Clubs at our level will give chances to their own youth prospects because its beneficial to do so.
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Those loan armies from clubs like Chelsea are usually players they've bought then loaned out which as you say is so they can hoard players. The Academy players they perpetually loan out are done so to eventually sell and make a profit. It's actually the loan rules changing that has impacted that, not the FFP rules. Chelsea still have 20 out on loan for instance, regardless of FFP rules, but I think the rules on how many you can have out on loan is changing.

By allowing clubs to exclude Academy graduates wages from their first team it'd encourage clubs like Villa to give Philogene a chance to see if they can get a 'free' first teamer rather than buy a Bailey etc.

I see both sides, as you say, but for every Palmer/Philogene there's a Mount who is basically pushed out to balance the books.
 
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SydneyTiger14 said:
Those loan armies from clubs like Chelsea are usually players they've bought then loaned out which as you say is so they can hoard players. The Academy players they perpetually loan out are done so to eventually sell and make a profit. It's actually the loan rules changing that has impacted that, not the FFP rules.
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I would say its both. Clubs would just hold onto players and probably let them play in the development leagues as they could control their development more. Man City have been doing it for a few years and inserting buy backs now Villa have caught on to doing it. It wouldn't surprise me if clubs like Chelsea, who have typically had a good academy, start selling off a few youth players to start balancing their books.

Not to mention it helps clubs like us in FFP terms as my understanding it counts as 1.5x to offset the likely cost you have put into the respective player.
 
HCAFCHangout said:
I would say its both. Clubs would just hold onto players and probably let them play in the development leagues as they could control their development more. Man City have been doing it for a few years and inserting buy backs now Villa have caught on to doing it. It wouldn't surprise me if clubs like Chelsea, who have typically had a good academy, start selling off a few youth players to start balancing their books.

Not to mention it helps clubs like us in FFP terms as my understanding it counts as 1.5x to offset the likely cost you have put into the respective player.
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If you mean in terms of selling Academy graduates, none of their costs in the Academy set up count towards FFP as I understand it. I'm not sure how that works with their wages and if that stops once they make their first team debut or whatever.
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
If you mean in terms of selling Academy graduates, none of their costs in the Academy set up count towards FFP as I understand it. I'm not sure how that works with their wages and if that stops once they make their first team debut or whatever.
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I agree, but it's also worth pointing out that for a club the size of ours, we've only recently started producing players with a market value over £1m and until our set up gets more investment into recruitment and facilities, it's probably not going to turn out that many first team ready players. That being said and using the aforementioned Mason Mount as the example, Chelsea haven't had many coming through in recent years either as a lot of their youth talent is bought in and I can only think of Mount (at Man U), Colwill and Gallagher in a first team picture at the moment, maybe Broja.

Chelsea have the money to go out and poach players for their U23s and loan them to top flight clubs around Europe while our U21s end up at places like Spennymoor, Gainsborough and Boston United.
 
Steven Toast said:
I agree, but it's also worth pointing out that for a club the size of ours, we've only recently started producing players with a market value over £1m and until our set up gets more investment into recruitment and facilities, it's probably not going to turn out that many first team ready players. That being said and using the aforementioned Mason Mount as the example, Chelsea haven't had many coming through in recent years either as a lot of their youth talent is bought in and I can only think of Mount (at Man U), Colwill and Gallagher in a first team picture at the moment, maybe Broja.

Chelsea have the money to go out and poach players for their U23s and loan them to top flight clubs around Europe while our U21s end up at places like Spennymoor, Gainsborough and Boston United.
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But wouldn't changing the FFP rules encourage this? I understand it wouldn't be overnight and owners are impatient to see output for their spending, it would certainly help.
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
But wouldn't changing the FFP rules encourage this? I understand it wouldn't be overnight and owners are impatient to see output for their spending, it would certainly help.
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In an ideal world, yes, but I think we both know that the money saved on FFP would be spent on wages/transfers. I find football to be so short term that I highly doubt it would speed things up.

I'd be interested to see a list of EFL clubs who have invested in their youth set up this year.
 
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Steven Toast said:
In an ideal world, yes, but I think we both know that the money saved on FFP would be spent on wages/transfers. I find football to be so short term that I highly doubt it would speed things up.

I'd be interested to see a list of EFL clubs who have invested in their youth set up this year.
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Agreed, it's a bit of a tricky one to resolve because the other side of it is if we could have written KLP a blank cheque to keep him, is that actually in the player's best interests or not? Is it just as jeopardising for a club to be able to throw money at keeping an Academy player etc.
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
Those loan armies from clubs like Chelsea are usually players they've bought then loaned out which as you say is so they can hoard players. The Academy players they perpetually loan out are done so to eventually sell and make a profit. It's actually the loan rules changing that has impacted that, not the FFP rules. Chelsea still have 20 out on loan for instance, regardless of FFP rules, but I think the rules on how many you can have out on loan is changing.

By allowing clubs to exclude Academy graduates wages from their first team it'd encourage clubs like Villa to give Philogene a chance to see if they can get a 'free' first teamer rather than buy a Bailey etc.

I see both sides, as you say, but for every Palmer/Philogene there's a Mount who is basically pushed out to balance the books.
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I'm sure I read three or four seasons ago that Chelsea had 180 professionals on their books.
 
Steven Toast said:
I agree, but it's also worth pointing out that for a club the size of ours, we've only recently started producing players with a market value over £1m and until our set up gets more investment into recruitment and facilities, it's probably not going to turn out that many first team ready players. That being said and using the aforementioned Mason Mount as the example, Chelsea haven't had many coming through in recent years either as a lot of their youth talent is bought in and I can only think of Mount (at Man U), Colwill and Gallagher in a first team picture at the moment, maybe Broja.

Chelsea have the money to go out and poach players for their U23s and loan them to top flight clubs around Europe while our U21s end up at places like Spennymoor, Gainsborough and Boston United.
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City have always 'produced' young players who have come through the academy/youth development. They haven't always sold for 'over £1m' but we have produced a couple who have sold at the higher end of the transfer market of the day. The Stuart Pearson transfer in 1974? was amongst the top ten transfer fees in the country at the time. We received good amounts for Paul Haigh, Peter Daniel, Andy Payton. Brian Marwood, Leigh Jenkinson, Roy Greenwood, John Hawley and of course Dean Windass, even Dave Stewart went for a reasonable amount to Chelsea from us. The only time this particular production line ceased was when Terry Dol*n and Fish dismantled the youth scheme altogether and we lost two generations of not just young players but supporters too.
Having said all that we haven't produced as much home grown young talent as some clubs of a similiar size because of our geography and the fact that talented young sportsmen around here can be poached to play rugby league, and please don't tell me it doesnt go on.
When i played amateur/youth football around here, a long time ago, if a scout was on the touchline you could bet your weeks wages that they would be from every club in the FL except Hull City. It seemed to get noticed for City boys at that time, you had to be recommended by Fred Ramsden. Thankfully it has changed today.
 
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Birmingham City
In: Andre Dozzell (QPR, loan)

Out: None

Blackburn Rovers
In : Ben Chrisene (Aston Villa, loan), Yasin Ayari (Brighton, loan), Connor O'Riordan (Crewe Alexandra, undisclosed)

Out: Lewis Travis (Ipswich, loan)

Bristol City
In: Adam Murphy (St Patrick's, undisclosed fee), Scott Twine (Burnley, loan), Taylor Gardner-Hickman (West Brom, undisclosed), Josh Stokes (Aldershot, undisclosed)

Out: Andreas Weimann (West Brom, loan)

Cardiff City
In: None

Out: None

Coventry City
In: None

Out: Jordan Obikwu (Grimsby, loan)

Huddersfield Town
In: Alex Matos (Chelsea, loan), Bojan Radulovic (HJK Helsinki, undisclosed fee), Rhys Healey (Watford, undisclosed), Radinio Balker (Groningen, undisclosed)

Out: Rarmani Edmonds-Green (Charlton Athletic, undisclosed), Josh Austerfield (Crewe Alexandra, loan)

Hull City
In: Billy Sharp (free), Fabio Carvalho (Liverpool, loan), Ivor Pandur (Fortuna Sittard)

Out: Scott Twine (Bristol City), Ruben Vinagre (Hellas Verona), Harry Wood (Grimsby Town), Andy Smith (Cheltenham Town)

Ipswich Town
In: Jeremy Sarmiento (Brighton, loan), Lewis Travis (Blackburn, loan)

Out: Kyle Edwards (Oxford, free), Freddie Ladapo (Charlton, loan)

Leeds United
In: None

Out: Robin Koch (Eintracht Frankfurt, permanent in the summer) Luke Ayling (Middlesbrough, loan), Darko Gyabi (Plymouth Argyle, loan), Lewis Bate (MK Dons, loan)

Leicester City
In: None

Out: Daniel Iverson (Stoke, loan)

Middlesbrough
In: Finn Azaz (Aston Villa, undisclosed fee), Luke Ayling (Leeds United, loan), Luke Thomas (Leicester City, loan)

Out: Hayden Coulson (Blackpool, loan)

Millwall
In: Michael Obafemi (Burnley, loan), Japhet Tanganga (Tottenham, loan)

Out: None

Norwich City
In: None

Out: Emmanuel Adegboyega (Walsall, loan), Archie Mair (Morecambe, loan), Tony Springett (Northampton, loan), Jaden Warner (Notts County, loan)

Plymouth Argyle
In: Ashley Phillips (Tottenham, loan), Darko Gyabi (Leeds United, loan), Adam Forshaw (Norwich City, free), Alfie Devine (Tottenham, loan), Matthew Sorinola (Union Saint-Gilloise, free)

Out: Macaulay Gillesphey (Charlton, undisclosed), Tyreik Wright (Bradford, loan)

Preston North End
In: None

Out: Lewis Leigh (Crewe, loan)

Queens Park Rangers
In: None

Out: Stephen Duke-McKenna (Sutton United, loan), Kayden Harrack (Morecambe, free)

Rotherham United
In: None

Out: Tolaji Bola (Burton Albion, loan)

Sheffield Wednesday
In: James Beadle (Brighton, loan), Ike Ugbo (Troyes, loan)

Out: Tyreeq Bakinson (Charlton, loan)

Southampton
In: Joe Rothwell (Bournemouth, loan)

Out: Jack Bycroft (Swindon, undisclosed)

Stoke City
In: Daniel Iverson (Leicester, loan), Luke Cundle (Wolves, loan), Scott Morris (Christchurch, undisclosed)

Out: Tommy Simkin (Forest Green, loan)

Sunderland
In: None

Out: Jack Diamond (Carlisle United, loan)

Swansea City
In: None

Out: Brandon Cooper (Leyton Orient, undisclosed), Nathanael Ogbeta (Bolton Wanderers, loan)

Watford
In: Emmanuel Dennis (Nottingham Forest, loan)

Out: None

West Bromwich Albion
In: Andreas Weimann (Bristol City, loan), Callum Marshall (West Ham, loan)

Out: Taylor Gardner-Hickman (Bristol City, undisclosed), Mo Faal (Walsall, loan)
 
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