Is Warnock Right?

[Oldsparkey]

There's no doubt he should be charged - the FA couldn't afford not to otherwise it would open the door and set a precedent for others.

The point is more as to whether he is correct in saying what he did rather than whether he should have said it.

 

[Roystonblue]

I don’t think we have the worst referees in the world. We have some that are better than others but I don’t think any of them make deliberate mistakes

 

[fieldmarshall]

Officials will make mistakes and have always made mistakes but that doesn't mean they should be subject to abuse, if a referee consistently gets it wrong he will be removed from the list and therefore not ref again.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Officials will make mistakes and have always made mistakes but that doesn't mean they should be subject to abuse, if a referee consistently gets it wrong he will be removed from the list and therefore not ref again.

Of course they have in the past, and always will in the future make mistakes - they are only human but that is not the point.

There's nothing new in "abusing" match officials - depends what you mean by abusing. Physical abuse or the "in the face" type of pitch side confrontation from players and their managers has no place in the game, but everyone has the right to hold an opinion. The FA has a job to do and despite their frequent deficiences, policing this game is not an easy task when there is so much financially at stake.

Although they frown up on it, you can often get away with rubbishing officials and calling them incompetent on the basis that you are expressing a personal opinion. What you cannot do is accuse them of being biased which is tantamount to an accusation of fraud. That was Warnock's big mistake and he will have to take the consequences.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Tough to bear guys - seriously best of luck for next season. Looks like we'll be replacing you in the Championship with or without Warnock.

If you've got a minute, have a look at MOTD tonight - we'll probably be last on but just look at some of Mike Deans' decisions re penalties not given to us - absolutely scandalous non-decisions.

I don't want it to seem like a conspiracy theory, we weren't that good but that was hard to bear again. Maybe Warnock has criticised the refs once too much and it is payback time?

 

[Bigalreigned]

Tough to bear guys - seriously best of luck for next season. Looks like we'll be replacing you in the Championship with or without Warnock.

If you've got a minute, have a look at MOTD tonight - we'll probably be last on but just look at some of Mike Deans' decisions re penalties not given to us - absolutely scandalous non-decisions.

I don't want it to seem like a conspiracy theory, we weren't that good but that was hard to bear again. Maybe Warnock has criticised the refs once too much and it is payback time?

We’ve had some shocking refs this year too,but at the end of the day it’s your (our) own incompetence in letting in too many at one end and not scoring enough at the other that have really sealed our fates.

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

If you've got a minute, have a look at MOTD tonight - we'll probably be last on but just look at some of Mike Deans' decisions re penalties not given to us - absolutely scandalous non-decisions.

None of them look like clear pens to me but it’s all the players will be thinking about now.

What I did see was a side that could easily have been four or five down by the time the penalty decisions came round.

Even if they did get a debatable pen they still don’t deserve and never look like getting three points out of this one.

 

[Oldsparkey]

We’ve had some shocking refs this year too,but at the end of the day it’s your (our) own incompetence in letting in too many at one end and not scoring enough at the other that have really sealed our fates.

None of them look like clear pens to me but it’s all the players will be thinking about now.

What I did see was a side that could easily have been four or five down by the time the penalty decisions came round.

Even if they did get a debatable pen they still don’t deserve and never look like getting three points out of this one.

Both you guys misssing the point I'm making - nothing wrong with the result, I didn't question that, they were the better side overall and deserved to win. I will say those few minutes on MOTD were very, very selective of the game. I wasn't there but watched the whole game live online and those "highlights" you saw were a travesty.

It was the ref's decisions I posted about not the result, and whether Warnock has brought some of it on himself with his constant public criticism of them. By any stretch of the imagination, he hasn't helped by "endearing" himself to a very influential group of people who obviously discuss things amongst themselves.

The degree of the "non-penalty" decisions is debatable by any standards and certainly on a football forum, but VAR would have shown 2 clear handballs by the same player within a minute of each other, and a trip on Gunnarson, all of which could have gone either way.

As is often said, the refs are only human and make mistakes, but it could also be that history with Warnock plays a part. There we go with the "conspiracy theory" again.

 

[Roystonblue]

Referees do clearly talk to each other. A few years ago I remember Andy Johnson? Winning something like 9 penalties in 1 season for palace. The following season he got none (I think) as the consensus was that he was a bit of a diver. I believe that in this situation, referees got together & whether consciously or unconsciously decided that it wasn’t going to happen again

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

Both you guys misssing the point I'm making - nothing wrong with the result, I didn't question that, they were the better side overall and deserved to win. I will say those few minutes on MOTD were very, very selective of the game. I wasn't there but watched the whole game live online and those "highlights" you saw were a travesty.

It was the ref's decisions I posted about not the result, and whether Warnock has brought some of it on himself with his constant public criticism of them. By any stretch of the imagination, he hasn't helped by "endearing" himself to a very influential group of people who obviously discuss things amongst themselves.

The degree of the "non-penalty" decisions is debatable by any standards and certainly on a football forum, but VAR would have shown 2 clear handballs by the same player within a minute of each other, and a trip on Gunnarson, all of which could have gone either way.

As is often said, the refs are only human and make mistakes, but it could also be that history with Warnock plays a part. There we go with the "conspiracy theory" again.

If VAR were in play they still may not have been given. The arms are not in an unnatural position and are at close range and the backward tackle appeared to me to get something on the ball. So not clear and obvious mistakes, but the handballs 100% not pens for me.

I agree that Cardiff will have a tough time to get those 50/50 pens for the rest of this season. But worse than that some of the players will be thinking of themselves as victims and as though they can’t get the break they need so psychologically the side really has problems now and I can’t see them getting out of it.

 

[Bigalreigned]

Both you guys misssing the point I'm making - nothing wrong with the result, I didn't question that, they were the better side overall and deserved to win. I will say those few minutes on MOTD were very, very selective of the game. I wasn't there but watched the whole game live online and those "highlights" you saw were a travesty.

It was the ref's decisions I posted about not the result, and whether Warnock has brought some of it on himself with his constant public criticism of them. By any stretch of the imagination, he hasn't helped by "endearing" himself to a very influential group of people who obviously discuss things amongst themselves.

The degree of the "non-penalty" decisions is debatable by any standards and certainly on a football forum, but VAR would have shown 2 clear handballs by the same player within a minute of each other, and a trip on Gunnarson, all of which could have gone either way.

As is often said, the refs are only human and make mistakes, but it could also be that history with Warnock plays a part. There we go with the "conspiracy theory" again.

...and I’m sure if you weren’t in the position you are you wouldn’t be bemoaning the poor refereeing decisions.You can either play the victim or just accept (like most of us on this board have about ITFC) that you’re just not good enough.

 

[Oldsparkey]

If VAR were in play they still may not have been given. The arms are not in an unnatural position and are at close range and the backward tackle appeared to me to get something on the ball. So not clear and obvious mistakes, but the handballs 100% not pens for me.

I agree that Cardiff will have a tough time to get those 50/50 pens for the rest of this season. But worse than that some of the players will be thinking of themselves as victims and as though they can’t get the break they need so psychologically the side really has problems now and I can’t see them getting out of it.

I agree.

 

[Oldsparkey]

...and I’m sure if you weren’t in the position you are you wouldn’t be bemoaning the poor refereeing decisions.You can either play the victim or just accept (like most of us on this board have about ITFC) that you’re just not good enough.

We are not good enough for the Premier League and that's a fact. That doesn't stop us "bemoaning" marginal decisions that never seem to go our way.

 

[Oldsparkey]

So that was a definite penalty today against Norwich then just before half time?

Deflected off the guy's boot and onto his arm in the box is a defo penalty, whereas deflected off the guys head onto his arm yesterday isn't.

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

So that was a definite penalty today against Norwich then just before half time?

Deflected off the guy's boot and onto his arm in the box is a defo penalty, whereas deflected off the guys head onto his arm yesterday isn't.

The Norwich lad dives at the ball with his arms up. Can you really not see the difference?

 

[Oldsparkey]

The Norwich lad dives at the ball with his arms up. Can you really not see the difference?

I forgot you're always right. I should keep calm and listen to Hampy.

 

[fieldmarshall]

Now you're getting it oldsparkey, as I understand it Warnock is a qualified ref so in spite of his bluster he might just have a point worth listening to, also when managers are quite rightly hauled over the coals publicly perhaps it would be fairer to do the same to refs and linos when either singly or collectively they've got a crucial decision glaringly wrong ?

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

Now you're getting it oldsparkey, as I understand it Warnock is a qualified ref so in spite of his bluster he might just have a point worth listening to, also when managers are quite rightly hauled over the coals publicly perhaps it would be fairer to do the same to refs and linos when either singly or collectively they've got a crucial decision glaringly wrong ?

I believe you’re allowed to criticise referees and the decisions without repercussion but calling their integrity into question is where the problem lies.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Now you're getting it oldsparkey, as I understand it Warnock is a qualified ref so in spite of his bluster he might just have a point worth listening to, also when managers are quite rightly hauled over the coals publicly perhaps it would be fairer to do the same to refs and linos when either singly or collectively they've got a crucial decision glaringly wrong ?

Yep FM, Warnock has done his badges and is a qualified referee - that doesn't necessariy make him right every time though.

His post match rantings can be a bit embarrassing for City supporters since he's been here. He does tend to blame refs for dropping points and that can be taking it too far, but saying it as you see it on idividual incidents is fair enough. The bloke can't calm down during a game and he shows it, but perhaps needs to rein himself in a bit when giving interviews afterwards.

In general, I have to say that he's more often right than wrong despite the anti-Warnock stance taken by many who will do that out of their historical dislike of him. Let's face it, he's hardly likely to criticise a ref when marginal decisions go our way is he? The fact of the matter and what bugs Warnock the most is that it doesn't happen very often particularly against the "elite" clubs- this is not a level playing field up here.

 

[Oldsparkey]

I believe you’re allowed to criticise referees and the decisions without repercussion but calling their integrity into question is where the problem lies.

That's exactly what I said - re last para of my post #84