Is Jol the Problem ?

[Super Brian McBride]

Think Jol has a tendency to want to play in a slow methodical way.
He's more interested in keeping possession, which tends to be the continental style,
which most teams are trying to do in the Premier, hence the defenses are more poor.
In some of our best away games like against WBA and Arsenal we have scored through quick
counter attacks, playing a more defend and counter-attack.

I personally don't want another manager change, so hope the Schalke rumours a false.
I think under Jol we've played some good football but are inconsistent. (it's beggining to remind me of Tigana's last Season)
lets hope he doesn't get as worse.
He did have the rug pulled from under him by Dembele and Dempsey wanting to go. Just think if
we'd got Berbatov with those two still with us.
Is Jol being given the money for replacements or is MAF thinking about the cost of the new stand,
and Premier status before committing (with the help of TV money in the summer).

Fulham and MAF are a very secretive club not wanting to air stuff in public, so who knows what
is happening behind the closed doors.

 

[Bandit]

Think Jol has a tendency to want to play in a slow methodical way.
He's more interested in keeping possession, which tends to be the continental style,
which most teams are trying to do in the Premier, hence the defenses are more poor.
In some of our best away games like against WBA and Arsenal we have scored through quick
counter attacks, playing a more defend and counter-attack.

I personally don't want another manager change, so hope the Schalke rumours a false.
I think under Jol we've played some good football but are inconsistent. (it's beggining to remind me of Tigana's last Season)
lets hope he doesn't get as worse.
He did have the rug pulled from under him by Dembele and Dempsey wanting to go. Just think if
we'd got Berbatov with those two still with us.
Is Jol being given the money for replacements or is MAF thinking about the cost of the new stand,
and Premier status before committing (with the help of TV money in the summer).

Fulham and MAF are a very secretive club not wanting to air stuff in public, so who knows what
is happening behind the closed doors.

I also want Jol to stay here. Changing managers with the available candidates out there would be suicidal (unless Guardiola is up for the job). He has the right footballing ideas but is obviously lacking the players to carry out his ideas. The fact is that we need to spend now, not in the summer, and improve the squad, because this squad currently is borderline good enough to stay in the league. We have everyone back from injury, so that excuse can no longer be used. I don't give a monkeys whether it's loans or permanent transfers, but there is no point in waiting until the summer to spend when come then we could possibly be in a lower league.

In regards to Jol's transfers, this was covered in another thread where I rated them out of 10. The average score was not very good, and I still believe that Riether is the ONLY player who has been 100% value for money. I like Ruiz/Berbatov/Petric etc but the jury is still out on some and for others it is too early to tell. I do however have faith in Jol to identify the weaknesses of the squad and improve on that come JANUARY. What is worrying me, is that Jol remains utterly convinced we will not be relegated, and may be why he is waiting until the summer to spend. That is the wrong mindset to have when you have won 2 games in about 16

 

[mangoputney]

The board is the problem, everything pinned on we'll be alright jack

Come summer Jol will go

Half the players will go

Just a case whether they'll just bank the parachute payment or again hope utter mediocrity retains prem status

 

[frogman27]

I cannot believe that so many doom mungers are saying we going down come the end of the season. We presently have 25 points, 11 points ahead of the Haha's and 9 points ahead of Reading. Granted we are only 6 points clear of Villa and Wigan. We do not have everyone back from injury yet, Diarra is still not playing and Sidders is not fit yet. When these 2 play we do much better. Diarra is key, he has the ability to control the game and bring players into the game. As for comments like ' half the players will go ' and talk of ' parachute payments ', seriously come on. We are not playing great football but we do have ability in the team. When we get Diarra back and either Sidders or Kara with him, we can then put Ruiz in the hole and get Berba interested again.

As for players new players coming in, it is not as easy as just saying we need to buy quality now. If you listen to Jol he has stated how hard it is to get players. There is a hell of alot of competition out there for good quality players. We cannot just assume that players are there so we can get them. Personally, I do not want us to pay over the odds for players, they have to be worth their value.

I wish we would all, as fans, concentrate more on getting behind the players and management than using these boards to bang on about all things negative. Yes Jol is struggling to get the results. Yes the players are struggling to win. Yes the board are not getting the players in that we would love. However, remember this, we only hear a fraction of the information that is known within the club, certainly not enough to be making such sweeping generalisations. We are supporters that should support our clubs through thick and thin, good times and bad times. Let's get behind the club and stop making comments on Jol out or Players to be sold.

Come on you whites.

 

[FFC_Madness]

Is Diarra the messiah now?

Jol has no clue how to setup the team neither the guts to drop flops from the team. That was the point from other people watching the game yesterday.

We played without a defensive midfielder to break their attacks.

Will be behind the team and support every effort but not watching them play like a Sunday pub team.

 

[Bidley]

Jol has no clue how to setup the team neither the guts to drop flops from the team. That was the point from other people watching the game yesterday.

So you clearly know better. When we sack Jol (which we obviously will, as he's clueless isn't he) who do we get to take over? Guardiola is free, he'd be a good bet. Perhaps Mourinho, maybe he'd like to take the reigns at a team "in freefall". Perhaps we should get Curbishley in and prepare for our inevitable season in the Championship next season. If we sell Berbatov and maybe terminate Ruiz's contract we'll be well-set for the slog next season. Oh hang on, we drew with a Championship team the other week, so we'll be in League One the next season.

What would you have done differently? Jol dropped Riise (he got an injury after he was dropped, remember), so you think dropping Ruiz and whoever else (probably Jol's signings, Roy's babes can do no wrong) is a "flop" in your eyes is going to stop the rot? Playing Baird with Kara doesn't work, it's been tried before, Baird doesn't pass forwards. Yesterday playing Ruiz deeper with Berbatov playing the support role and Petric up top was yet another change, so there is clear - clear - indication that Jol is willing to adjust things when they aren't working.

But I'm wasting my breath, aren't I.

 

[Bandit]

So you clearly know better. When we sack Jol (which we obviously will, as he's clueless isn't he) who do we get to take over? Guardiola is free, he'd be a good bet. Perhaps Mourinho, maybe he'd like to take the reigns at a team "in freefall". Perhaps we should get Curbishley in and prepare for our inevitable season in the Championship next season. If we sell Berbatov and maybe terminate Ruiz's contract we'll be well-set for the slog next season. Oh hang on, we drew with a Championship team the other week, so we'll be in League One the next season.

What would you have done differently? Jol dropped Riise (he got an injury after he was dropped, remember), so you think dropping Ruiz and whoever else (probably Jol's signings, Roy's babes can do no wrong) is a "flop" in your eyes is going to stop the rot? Playing Baird with Kara doesn't work, it's been tried before, Baird doesn't pass forwards. Yesterday playing Ruiz deeper with Berbatov playing the support role and Petric up top was yet another change, so there is clear - clear - indication that Jol is willing to adjust things when they aren't working.

But I'm wasting my breath, aren't I.

Bidley, put the claws away my friend. This is a forum, you expect lots of people to have lots of differing opinions. Just because somebody might not agree with you doesn't make them wrong or right, and vice versa. We won't be relegated in my opinion, but for Jol to dismiss it out of hand is wrong. He is relying on the 'too good to go down' motto that Newcastle lived by until it actually happened. I'm not saying it's wise to go and splash the cash in January, of course it isn't, the market is full of overrated players and inflated price tags, but quality, which is what we need now, not back up players, rarely comes in the form of loans and free transfers. Granted we have gotten out for jail with a few (Diarra, Pog, Kara) but our best signings will always cost money (Ruiz, Berbatov, Hangeland etc)

Loved the 'Roy's Babes' though. Maybe 'Hughes's Hunks' too?

 

[frogman27]

Sorry Madness but Diarra is not the messiah, he's just a very naughty boy !!! But seriously, he is the most likely player we have to a captain, someone who leads by example, has brilliant composure on the ball and brings others, eg: ruiz and our wingers into the game. He provides support to our centre backs and allows the likes of Sidders to get forward. Is he the messiah, no of course not, but he is the best central midfielder we have by along shot.

 

[Bidley]

Bidley, put the claws away my friend. This is a forum, you expect lots of people to have lots of differing opinions. Just because somebody might not agree with you doesn't make them wrong or right, and vice versa. We won't be relegated in my opinion, but for Jol to dismiss it out of hand is wrong. He is relying on the 'too good to go down' motto that Newcastle lived by until it actually happened. I'm not saying it's wise to go and splash the cash in January, of course it isn't, the market is full of overrated players and inflated price tags, but quality, which is what we need now, not back up players, rarely comes in the form of loans and free transfers. Granted we have gotten out for jail with a few (Diarra, Pog, Kara) but our best signings will always cost money (Ruiz, Berbatov, Hangeland etc)

Loved the 'Roy's Babes' though. Maybe 'Hughes's Hunks' too?

I call it as I see it Bandy. This is the internet, sarky rants are the order of the day!

I'm pretty certain there's an element of lip service to Jol's press dealings. Sure, he doesn't usually pull any punches but he's not going to say outright "yeah, we might go down, this squad's not up to it". He's said repeatedly that he intends on making signings, that our squad is very small and lacks quality in some areas, that results haven't been good enough etc. Of course he's going to point to certain injuries and form when asked why we're not going to do well, again, he's not going to say something like "I'd like to play a good player but I had to play that Richardson bloke, and he's pants!". If Jol spoke like we do on here you'd be worried and we'd have a ridiculous turnover of players.

Our players are struggling for consistancy, one week they're not good enough to lace their boots, the next they put in a good performance. Not one of our players has been outstanding all season, but they've all had their moments here and there, some more than others, granted. Not long ago Kara was sluggish mess, and Sidwell was a yellow card magnet with no technical awareness, now they're higher up the pecking order. At the beginning of the season Berbs, Petric, Ruiz and Diarra were peerless, now they're anonymous. Peaks and troughs, that's the frustrating thing, we're just not all clicking in unison.

Like you say, there's not much value to be had in the January window but I've no doubt the men upstairs and Jol are trying to work something out. It'd be pure folly to think Jol sees us play and thinks "yeah, that'll do".

Hughes' Hunks has a nice ring, how about Jol's Jesters?

 

[FFC_Madness]

The team is not gelling and I am not getting paid to sort it out. Just calling it as I see it.

There has not been a sub from the bench that will change the game or will improve the performance. How do you call Senderos coming in and Hangeland moving to the attack a couple of weeks ago? We got Berba and Petric yesterday and nobody was in the box for the crossings.

Sidwell remains sideways Sidwell but we can't blame for lacking effort.

And my comment comes after 15 games that our performance has not improved at all...

 

[Bidley]

There has not been a sub from the bench that will change the game or will improve the performance. How do you call Senderos coming in and Hangeland moving to the attack a couple of weeks ago? We got Berba and Petric yesterday and nobody was in the box for the crossings.

And how do you suppose Jol remedies that? Perhaps he can pull Iniesta or Xavi out of his arse and sub them on? And I take it you think Jol was telling Berbs and Petric to not get on the end of crosses?

Perhaps you should back up your criticisms with alternatives that are viable, rather than complain and blame Jol for everything that happens on the pitch. You seem to think that if we remove Jol from the equation we'd suddenly have a world-class squad that play like Barcelona. Like Jol wanted Dembele, Dempsey, Murphy etc gone and brought in players like Richardson and Rodallega because he rated them higher than any other player in Europe.

 

[Bandit]

And how do you suppose Jol remedies that? Perhaps he can pull Iniesta or Xavi out of his arse and sub them on? And I take it you think Jol was telling Berbs and Petric to not get on the end of crosses?

Perhaps you should back up your criticisms with alternatives that are viable, rather than complain and blame Jol for everything that happens on the pitch. You seem to think that if we remove Jol from the equation we'd suddenly have a world-class squad that play like Barcelona. Like Jol wanted Dembele, Dempsey, Murphy etc gone and brought in players like Richardson and Rodallega because he rated them higher than any other player in Europe.

Interestingly, Fulham have scored the most goals from substitutes! Just imagine if we had Dzeko and Hernandez too!

I think Berbatov has shown a distinct lack of effort in the past few games, which is disappointing. I think the players as well as Jol possibly are a little afraid to 'have a word' and tell him to buck his ideas up. It's no coincidence that our best games this season have come when Berbatov has been at the top of his game. Berbatov joined the club probably on the basis that we would be fighting for a spot in the top 8, is he is up the challenge of dragging us away from the bottom 3? We obviously need him happy and on that basis, I can see why Jol is reluctant to tell him to buck his ideas up.

Of course this is all conjecture and Jol may well have had a round of fisticuffs with him last night.

 

[FFC_Madness]

And how do you suppose Jol remedies that? Perhaps he can pull Iniesta or Xavi out of his arse and sub them on? And I take it you think Jol was telling Berbs and Petric to not get on the end of crosses?

Perhaps you should back up your criticisms with alternatives that are viable, rather than complain and blame Jol for everything that happens on the pitch. You seem to think that if we remove Jol from the equation we'd suddenly have a world-class squad that play like Barcelona. Like Jol wanted Dembele, Dempsey, Murphy etc gone and brought in players like Richardson and Rodallega because he rated them higher than any other player in Europe.

Had enough with the argument about Dembele and Dempsey. What if Dembele was still available and got injured for the rest of the season? What would be the case?

Didn't ask for Jol's head but for him to do something and change things. He tried yesterday up to a degree. What do you expect me to do? Just accept every excuse he throws on the table. Is it his man-management skills that are the problem? If Jol told them to run and they didn't substitute both... Simple but probably he does not want to upset Betbatov.

 

[roscafre]

To all the above comments.
JOL picks the team ~ he has overseen the transfer market ~ he conducts and formulates
training sessions ~ and over the last 2 months we have been piss poor,is it us fans who have
got us in this position, just because we voice our concerns.

Players and managers, come and go,but without our support there is no FFC.

 

[Bidley]

Interestingly, Fulham have scored the most goals from substitutes! Just imagine if we had Dzeko and Hernandez too!

I think Berbatov has shown a distinct lack of effort in the past few games, which is disappointing. I think the players as well as Jol possibly are a little afraid to 'have a word' and tell him to buck his ideas up. It's no coincidence that our best games this season have come when Berbatov has been at the top of his game. Berbatov joined the club probably on the basis that we would be fighting for a spot in the top 8, is he is up the challenge of dragging us away from the bottom 3? We obviously need him happy and on that basis, I can see why Jol is reluctant to tell him to buck his ideas up.

Of course this is all conjecture and Jol may well have had a round of fisticuffs with him last night.

That is interesting. There may be an element of truth in the Berbatov thing.

Had enough with the argument about Dembele and Dempsey. What if Dembele was still available and got injured for the rest of the season? What would be the case?

Um, what?

Didn't ask for Jol's head but for him to do something and change things. He tried yesterday up to a degree. What do you expect me to do? Just accept every excuse he throws on the table. Is it his man-management skills that are the problem? If Jol told them to run and they didn't substitute both... Simple but probably he does not want to upset Betbatov.

He HAS changed things. How many times has he played players in different positions? How many times has he played the same lineup twice? And who would you suggest we bring on for Berbatov? Rodallega was brought on for Petric. The point I'm making is your moans are just that without anything to back it up.

To all the above comments.
JOL picks the team ~ he has overseen the transfer market ~ he conducts and formulates
training sessions ~ and over the last 2 months we have been piss poor,is it us fans who have
got us in this position, just because we voice our concerns.

Players and managers, come and go,but without our support there is no FFC.

You honestly think Jol has brought in every player he would've liked over his tenure? You think Jol didn't fancy replacing those who left? I've no problems with voicing concerns, I do it too, but baseless finger-pointing I do take issue with.

Completely agree with your last sentence - so let's show a bit of support, shall we. Us fans have not got us in this position, but neither will pissing and moaning get us out of it. And I'm fully aware of my own pissing and moaning.

And that's the last from me. COYW.

 

[Cottager58]

To all the above comments.
JOL picks the team ~ he has overseen the transfer market ~ he conducts and formulates
training sessions ~ and over the last 2 months we have been piss poor,is it us fans who have
got us in this position, just because we voice our concerns.

Players and managers, come and go,but without our support there is no FFC.

Agree rosc, And Jol's take is this -


Jol believes the frustration of the fans also comes because of their perception of the quality the team possesses.

"They feel we are a good team and that we’re probably better than we are and sometimes we probably look better than we are," said the Cottagers boss.

"We have a few problems this year because of players leaving and also injuries so we had to make a few changes in this match.

"Hopefully the fans will understand but if they don’t understand that’s ok. They’ve paid to watch so they have the right to have an opinion."

 

[Fulham COYW]

I'm confident we'll be ok and Jol with be with us again next season. We've had a few Managers recently and the side has changed dramatically - some for the good and others not so.

The last thing we want is another change in manager.

We are still not playing particularly well I agree but this is a time to get behind the team and the manager. It is amazing what a bit of confidence does. In the last few home games our fans have been very quiet and we have finished the game with a round of boos which is very un-fulham and I don't think helps the situation.

We need to be behind the team at this moment in time. Jol is a good manager and with a few critical signings we will be ok.

 

[Cottager58]

In the last few home games our fans have been very quiet and we have finished the game with a round of boos which is very un-fulham and I don't think helps the situation.

We need to be behind the team at this moment in time.

Like most of the fans I stayed at the end to cheer the team when we lost 3-1 to Sunderland. Did the same when we lost 2-1 to Swansea. Because in each of those games the team put up a fight.

Against Southampton when we drew 1-1, against Blackpool when we drew 1-1 and on Saturday when we again drew 1-1, I headed straight for the exit when the final whistle went. Because in each of those games the team showed no spirit at all.

Well 'headed for the exit' is a euphemism, I was stuck on the stairs so naturally was in the middle of the boos. And there were boos at all three games, although on Saturday they were much louder. I didn't (never will) join in. However, I have (some) empathy with those who did - how else can they let the manager (and on Saturday the Chairman also) know that they are disgruntled by the lack of effort from the team? And that's the nub of it - we didn't even lose those games - it was the "lack of effort".


I suppose an alternative to booing is to stay away, but that would be even less helpful.

 

[Captain Morgan]

The board is the problem, everything pinned on we'll be alright jack

Come summer Jol will go

Half the players will go

Just a case whether they'll just bank the parachute payment or again hope utter mediocrity retains prem status

I completely disagree. None of that will happen. For a detailed basis for my point of view, read what Bidley eloquently argues in this thread. I've nothing substantive to add to that, but just wanted to say that 'mangoputney' is a fantastic user name. For that at least, well done.

 

[mangoputney]

the whole thread was clearly read prior to me consciously deciding to add my concise / to the point opinion

obviously your opinion differs, fair enough

cheers for the demeaning pat on the back

eloquent up until the last six words