Is Jol the Problem ?
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This. Very much this. Although I did stay after the Blackpool game because Karagounis deserved an ovation after all the effort he showed for us.
It is all about effort, and the Southampton and Wigan games we just looked so lethargic. Fans feel the pain, but if the team tries hard we can appreciate that. It's when we don't get the result and the team hasn't seemed to try, that's when the fans boo.
This and I don't accept a 36 yo who has achieved a lot at various levels to celebrate and fight like a kid and the rest to be absolutely deflated and sleepy. Not to mention our captain. Pointless to go there.
The fans feel that even if they shout or scream or do anything feasible will change something. And it is true. After every goal we conceded the whole ground was behind the team. Any response? Not really
Sorry that you took it that way, mangoputney. I certainly didn't intend to demean you. I genuinely like your username, and respectfully disagree with your opinion. I obviously missed the tone of good-natured playfulness that I was going for. Apologies for causing offense.
In his press interviews today Jol has had a go at the fans -
“As a football manager I can understand it but if you see, for example, Bryan Ruiz, he has to do a job for us and the fans start from the first moment to be on his back. That is what I don’t like,” he said.
“I would like them to understand that we are still not Real Madrid, we are Fulham and we have got a few problems rebuilding the team. So hopefully they will understand in the future and if not, then we will probably have this more and more because we will have these sort of performances.”
Source: http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/fulham-fc/2013/01/14/82029-32597387/
Firstly, I do not recall any heckling of Bryan at the outset. Secondly, to blame the fans for a disjointed performance that lacked passion or motivation suggests that he is losing confidence in his own ability. As Bandit has pointed out many times it is never Jol's fault. Why did he not just say his usual, I had to play Ruiz deep because .. of injuries ..I lost Dembele ...blah, blah, blah.
It's not as if it's the first time that Fulham fans have voiced their displeasure. He should have been around in the dark days of the lower leagues if he wanted to hear a proper hostile reaction. Goodness even Roy experienced it. Ironically also in a game against Wigan -
“Roy Hodgson took a swipe at the Fulham fans who jeered when they trailed at half-time. SW6’s version of Roy Keane’s prawn sandwich brigade did not like the fact that Fulham were behind to a Jason Scotland goal.
After the Cottagers had fought back to win through goals by Stefano Okaka and Brede Hangeland their manager said: “You hope people will show understanding for the level of difficulty being faced. It’s a vital game for Wigan, they’re faced with a relegation battle, but we’ve dug deep and got another famous victory. I mean the more executive types. I’m reminding fans that we still try to give them everything but there’s going to come a time in our last six games when we’re going to disappoint them, because it’s been 53 games and it’ll be 60 before the end of the season.”
“I’m afraid that sooner or later there’s going to be a performance like the first half against Wigan which goes on through the 90 minutes. It would be nice if people showed some sympathy. I feel my players don’t deserve people shouting ‘Wake up’.”
Source: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Roy-Hodgson-hits-out-at-the-Fulham-fans-who-jeered-his-side-off-at-half-time-of-their-win-against-Wigan-article381153.html
Something uncanny in the similarity of the highlighted phrases. Well Roy may not have liked the reaction but he 'woke up'. Mr Jol - the remedy is in your hands.
“As a football manager I can understand it but if you see, for example, Bryan Ruiz, he has to do a job for us and the fans start from the first moment to be on his back. That is what I don’t like,” he said.
“I would like them to understand that we are still not Real Madrid, we are Fulham and we have got a few problems rebuilding the team. So hopefully they will understand in the future and if not, then we will probably have this more and more because we will have these sort of performances.”
Source: http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/fulham-fc/2013/01/14/82029-32597387/
Firstly, I do not recall any heckling of Bryan at the outset. Secondly, to blame the fans for a disjointed performance that lacked passion or motivation suggests that he is losing confidence in his own ability. As Bandit has pointed out many times it is never Jol's fault. Why did he not just say his usual, I had to play Ruiz deep because .. of injuries ..I lost Dembele ...blah, blah, blah.
It's not as if it's the first time that Fulham fans have voiced their displeasure. He should have been around in the dark days of the lower leagues if he wanted to hear a proper hostile reaction. Goodness even Roy experienced it. Ironically also in a game against Wigan -
“Roy Hodgson took a swipe at the Fulham fans who jeered when they trailed at half-time. SW6’s version of Roy Keane’s prawn sandwich brigade did not like the fact that Fulham were behind to a Jason Scotland goal.
After the Cottagers had fought back to win through goals by Stefano Okaka and Brede Hangeland their manager said: “You hope people will show understanding for the level of difficulty being faced. It’s a vital game for Wigan, they’re faced with a relegation battle, but we’ve dug deep and got another famous victory. I mean the more executive types. I’m reminding fans that we still try to give them everything but there’s going to come a time in our last six games when we’re going to disappoint them, because it’s been 53 games and it’ll be 60 before the end of the season.”
“I’m afraid that sooner or later there’s going to be a performance like the first half against Wigan which goes on through the 90 minutes. It would be nice if people showed some sympathy. I feel my players don’t deserve people shouting ‘Wake up’.”
Source: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Roy-Hodgson-hits-out-at-the-Fulham-fans-who-jeered-his-side-off-at-half-time-of-their-win-against-Wigan-article381153.html
Something uncanny in the similarity of the highlighted phrases. Well Roy may not have liked the reaction but he 'woke up'. Mr Jol - the remedy is in your hands.
Cheers for that 58
Got to disagree with the Bryan heckling, absolute nonsense. I was watching online and heard nothing of the sort. At the moment, he would be probably the last player to be criticized from the fans, so I have no idea where Jol has gotten that one from.
Yes, to blame the fans for dismal displays does seem like a cop out to be honest. It's not as if we begun the match berating the team and booing each player as their names were called out on the team sheet. I would guess that the booing started once the final whistle had blown, by that time the damage had already been done by the players on the pitch.
The only times in recent years where a club or manager could use the excuse of fans having a negative impact on the team prior to kick-off would be Kean's reign at Blackburn where the fans protested before, during and after the match no matter the result/performance. Were our fans anything like that against Wigan? Not a chance.
Fair play to Jol though, he's getting his excuses in early as a 14th day passes without a signing or offer made.
Got to disagree with the Bryan heckling, absolute nonsense. I was watching online and heard nothing of the sort. At the moment, he would be probably the last player to be criticized from the fans, so I have no idea where Jol has gotten that one from.
Yes, to blame the fans for dismal displays does seem like a cop out to be honest. It's not as if we begun the match berating the team and booing each player as their names were called out on the team sheet. I would guess that the booing started once the final whistle had blown, by that time the damage had already been done by the players on the pitch.
The only times in recent years where a club or manager could use the excuse of fans having a negative impact on the team prior to kick-off would be Kean's reign at Blackburn where the fans protested before, during and after the match no matter the result/performance. Were our fans anything like that against Wigan? Not a chance.
Fair play to Jol though, he's getting his excuses in early as a 14th day passes without a signing or offer made.
I have been asked to give it a rest...
Was reading the article yesterday on Evening Standard and was fuming.
The guy is clueless. And increasingly becoming dangerous. If he thinks that Ruiz did a job on Sat in the position he played is wrong. The only threat Ruiz offered was when moved forward. But he has to start defending using Ruiz as he splashed £10m and Mo does not forgive flops easily.
Nobody was on his back. Fans went on his back when he lost the ball twice within 5-10 mins by holding the ball in the midfield and doing his fancy slow motion stuff.
And if Roy managed to turn a game around with Okaka and his small squad there is no excuse for him!!
Jol is here temporarily. We are here for the run.
Come on you Whites...
Was reading the article yesterday on Evening Standard and was fuming.
The guy is clueless. And increasingly becoming dangerous. If he thinks that Ruiz did a job on Sat in the position he played is wrong. The only threat Ruiz offered was when moved forward. But he has to start defending using Ruiz as he splashed £10m and Mo does not forgive flops easily.
Nobody was on his back. Fans went on his back when he lost the ball twice within 5-10 mins by holding the ball in the midfield and doing his fancy slow motion stuff.
And if Roy managed to turn a game around with Okaka and his small squad there is no excuse for him!!
Jol is here temporarily. We are here for the run.
Come on you Whites...
To paraphrase the saying, one is an accident , two a coincidence but five is indictable. I am of course referring to Jol’s bust up with Riise.
JAR needed to be dropped and if he had a problem then Jol was correct to put him right. However. there are ways and there are ways. JAR is just the latest in a list of players who have fallen foul of the manager and my concern is the extreme and apparently irretrievable nature of the outcome.
If it was an isolated incident I might tend to say, ‘fair enough’ But it’s not. As I say, JAR is not the first - there are at least four before him. So this is clearly Jol’s way, his style of man-management. And I’m not at all sure that that is ’fair enough’.
In particularly the effect it may have in the dressing room. If a player is disruptive then facing up to them and getting rid quickly is the best solution. Obviously I don’t know what was said or what actually happened in this case. Nor do I know where loyalties within the squad lie. However, dividing lines being drawn or any kind of loss of team spirit is the last thing we want at the moment. Jol needs to look beyond his personal ego at times - he might see it as ‘his team’ but it’s not ’his football club’.
JAR needed to be dropped and if he had a problem then Jol was correct to put him right. However. there are ways and there are ways. JAR is just the latest in a list of players who have fallen foul of the manager and my concern is the extreme and apparently irretrievable nature of the outcome.
If it was an isolated incident I might tend to say, ‘fair enough’ But it’s not. As I say, JAR is not the first - there are at least four before him. So this is clearly Jol’s way, his style of man-management. And I’m not at all sure that that is ’fair enough’.
In particularly the effect it may have in the dressing room. If a player is disruptive then facing up to them and getting rid quickly is the best solution. Obviously I don’t know what was said or what actually happened in this case. Nor do I know where loyalties within the squad lie. However, dividing lines being drawn or any kind of loss of team spirit is the last thing we want at the moment. Jol needs to look beyond his personal ego at times - he might see it as ‘his team’ but it’s not ’his football club’.
That's a fair comment, but players who have played for him elsewhere - Berbatov, Petric, and (hopefully) Stekelenburg to name three - seem willing to repeat the experience. he can't be all bad.
Who are the four? Etuhu (not good enough for our first team), Zamora... Dempsey (had to go after being so blatantly tapped up) and AJ (not half as good as he thinks he is)?
Let's be honest Bobby Zamora is the moodiest footballer in the game at the moment; it's actually something of a relief to not have to defend him anymore.
Let's be honest Bobby Zamora is the moodiest footballer in the game at the moment; it's actually something of a relief to not have to defend him anymore.
Of course Jol is not the problem. Just remember we are undefeated in 2013, at least until Saturday when we visit a former happy stomping ground.
I remember Jol saying in an interview when asked regarding his relationship with Zamora was that he defended his approach and appreciated the fact that there would often be players who disagreed with his man-management style, so Jol has realised there is a problem.
But you often hear managers making the observation that players who aren't getting picked don't like the manager. Jol saying that some people don't like the way he does things isn't the same as him saying that he sees it as a problem.
Apologies, my comment wasn't worded correctly. I meant to say that Jol's admission means these incoming reports of JAR's fallout with the manager means there could be some truth in them.
Ah, yes, I can see what you meant now. In that case (brace yourself, Bandit) I agree.
Man-management is an art that not many managers have. Harry is the specialist in the area.
At the moment we need some of Harry's style to keep the players focused without breaking the structure and discipline in the process.
At the moment we need some of Harry's style to keep the players focused without breaking the structure and discipline in the process.