HOW LONG DO WE GIVE HIM ?

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KIO said:
Good afternoon everyone,

Haven't posted on here for many many months so with our poor run of form I thought that I'd pop on to this board to see if my (this) thread had been given a 'bump' and I wasn't disappointed :biggrin:

I reckon DW will be gone by Christmas but we all know that the real problem lies in the Boardroom ;)
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Welcome back KIO!

Somewhat loose links being made to Jack Wilshere taking over as manager as Knappers first appointment. Surely just opera putting 2 and 2 together. I’ve always liked him though
 
I have not posted on here for a while partly because I have been busy, partly because I have become increasingly attached to my local team and partly because I have been losing interest in NCFC. The Club is in crisis on the pitch despite having put the Club on a stable financial position. Part of the reason is that they have paid too much attention to the fan base who think they know everything but in reality know very little. Win 5 games and they want the Manager given a knighthood - lose the next 5 and they want him sacked. The reality is that we are only 3 points away from being in the very dangerous spot of 4th from bottom but why are we there? The Club is as financially stable as they can be and the Academy still produces decent youngsters. Is it the quality of the squad? If you look at the number of players who are either past or present International players you have to think that player quality is not a problem which only leaves the coaching staff and especially the Head Coach whose record, apart from a 2 year spell at Huddersfield, is fairly dismal. I can understand the decision behind sacking Farke although I didn't agree with it. He was unlikely to take us back up again but if he was still here would we now be as bad as we are now - I think not. I thought, and still do , that Smith was a sound appointment but the fans never took to him and the results and performances were not as good as they needed to be. Again, I can understand the reasoning behind the parting of the ways although I didn't agree with it. I cannot see how anything has improved since then and the standard of defending in particular has got worse. If Smith was still here would we now be as bad as we are now - I think not. The players do not seem to understand what their roles are. Every goal conceded ends up with defenders looking at each other as if to say ' I thought it was your job to pick him up ' and midfielders are continually looking in vain for a colleague to find space to receive a pass. Nobody seems to understand the system in general or their role in particular and that fault has to be laid at the door of Wagner. The question raised by this thread has to be slightly amended to ' how much longer can we risk keeping him ' as there is is a natural reluctance to get rid of yet another Head Coach and I can understand that. I did not want Farke or Smith dumped and I seriously believe we would be in a better position if either of them was still here. Our salvation at the moment is that 3 teams are adrift at the bottom but that can change which is why it is imperative to stop our slide down the table fairly quickly. I hate to say this but I fear his time is up and he has to go.
 
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Webber only gave Wagner the job because he was his best mate from his Huddersfield days, we need the best man for the job, not someone's best mate for the job
 
I don't see any change being made until Knapper is in the door, unless we leave Narcis Pelach in charge for a few games. If any decision is to be made on the manager I am sure Knapper would want either stability in the current choice or his own appointment - not a fresh manager weeks before he starts the role.

I am interested in how much of this seasons games you have seen 1950? I would say I have seen 90% of all games this season and the performances have been much better than under Smith (who I also backed). Players to me look like they know what they have been told to do, however we do seem to concede the exact same type of goal very regularly - on the counter when we have pushed all players forward barring our 2 CBs and a full back. My biggest concern is that having conceded this type of goal on so many occasions DW and the staff haven't found a way of preventing it - we are clearly over committing in attacking positions at times in my opinion. We also tend to retreat to the edge of our box and attempt to block the shot coming in rather than the proactive aggressive tackling that was cutting off attacks early in the first few games of the season.
 
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Agree with that Suffolk. For me, our loss of form was also due in large part to the injuries to Hanley, Sargent, Barnes and Núñez. We hoped Núñez is back now and Barnes isn't far off returning, but our hopes that Idah and Hwang could step up in their absence haven't been realised. Rowe has been our only threat up front, but he can't do it all. Sara has helped from midfield, but it hasn't been enough.
 
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RiverEndRick said:
Agree with that Suffolk. For me, our loss of form was also due in large part to the injuries to Hanley, Sargent, Barnes and Núñez. We hoped Núñez is back now and Barnes isn't far off returning, but our hopes that Idah and Hwang could step up in their absence haven't been realised. Rowe has been our only threat up front, but he can't do it all. Sara has helped from midfield, but it hasn't been enough.
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Hanley has played no part in this season; how can our current "loss of form" be anything to do with his absence? While the injuries to Sargent and Barnes have undoubtedly been factors, IMO we are kidding ourselves if we think that all will be well once they return. Our susceptibilities in defensive transition will remain.
 
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RiverEndRick said:
My point is that Hanley's continued absence has allowed other teams to focus on counterattacking against our slow CBs. It's just one factor, but our reduced threat up front allows other teams more freedom to attack us.
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It doesn't really matter how quick your CBs (or FBs) are if you allow opposition overloads against your back line. I don't believe for a moment that swapping out Duffy for Hanley would make any real difference. We have been plagued by this sort of structural weakness from Alex Neil onwards; like Hughton, Dean Smith saw the problem and tried to address it, only to suffer the same fate. Maybe we need to look at our football philosophy, and instead of simply emphasising "forward looking, attacking football" add a clause saying "from a sound defensive platform". I would be nervous about what we can expect from Ben Knapper, given his Arsenal background, if he hadn't spent the last few years working under Arteta!
 
Robbie BB said:
"from a sound defensive platform".
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I can hear the H(o)ughton kittens being sacrificed from that statement already (sorry Robbie)

As for BK coming in, a change of philosophy perhaps is needed upstairs. On the whole recruitment over numerous seasons now, has not been up to standard, which lays as Webber's door. He got lucky with some signings Pukki/Krul/Buendia, but dreadful with others Gibson/Tzolis/Rashica/Marshall/Giannoulis/McCallum/Husband/Franke (tended to be the more expensive signings). and I disagree with some of the hits/misses that the Athletic has given.

The problem (in my eyes), stems from the fact we've never replaced Tettey, and relied on stop-gaps (Skipp) and low quality alternatives (Normann/Amadoudo/Tryball/McLean/Sorenson), none of whom have (or had) so far shone in that role. Nobody gets stuck-in, roughs up the opponent, takes a yellow.
We've got a pair of aging CBs which is no problem, if they stay back, but seem to have been given a roaming role and go forward at will, a simple ball over the top and we're in trouble. Other than Hanley no-one commands the backline.
The situation upfront is diabolical, for all his lovers, Hernandez just doesn't produce remotely near enough, people used to moan about Redmond, but at least he managed goals and put crosses into the box, rather than behind the goal or into the first defender. Whoever decided to give Idah a 5 year contract needs their head examining, was blatantly obvious (at least) last season he wasn't up to standard, yet here we are. Hwang was a last minute panic buy (perhaps they thought we were getting Hwang Hee-chan instead :huh::huh::huh:)
As for the new guys, could someone explain what Batth, Fassnacht, Sainz or Forshaw need to do to start?

What will cost Wagner his job is the same substitutions, at the same time in the match and sticking to the same failing formation
 
NorthCityCanary said:
could someone explain what Batth, Fassnacht, Sainz or Forshaw need to do to start?
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Sainz will be first choice on the left when "fit enough to be in the match squad" becomes "match fit"; he's still not quite there.

Rowe has cemented his place in the starting XI, Fassnacht being the victim of JR's unexpected emergence. (Of course, until Sainz takes over that left-side position, both Rowe and Fassnacht could start if Hernandez is benched. But, whatever his limitations, it's a fact that Onel was integral to our first half perfomance against Leeds.)

Batth is a solid, rather old-fashioned, CB and, while he has often played at LCB, is right-footed; the left-footed Gibson is a better fit and better at accurately progressing the ball.

Good player though he is, Forshaw is still emerging from the shadow of a serious, long-term, injury; like Sainz he needs more game time to restore confidence and achieve full match fitness. Even then, he's not going to replace Sara, and I'm probably the only person in the Norwich universe who would bench McLean <laugh>
 
I fully accept that I only see the matches on Sky - even the red button works over here - plus the highlights available on TV, match reports and a match report from my son who still has a season ticket. As a side issue he has had a season ticket since I first took him with me over 30 years ago and until he took over a business from his Mum when we moved to France he used to go to about 75% of away games as well. He is now seriously considering whether he will renew next season, as are many who sit near him, because they are so angry at what they are seeing. As he said to me last night ' we never look as though we are in charge of a game even when we are in the lead and we just sit there waiting for the inevitable implosion' and he set out that in his opinion the problems will not be sorted out by the return of individuals as the problems go far deeper that that. Against Leeds he said we somehow undeservedly ended up 2-0 to the good but everybody knew that Leeds were the better side and would come good and win. We never looked like hanging on to that lead let alone increasing it because for the entire game nobody seemed to understand what their role was in whatever system Wagner is trying to initiate. Everything is a matter of opinion when individual players and Managers are talked about but results and the league table are facts not opinion. No team in that division should lose 6-2 at Plymouth. No team in that division should lose at Rotherham and never look like winning. The table shows that we are only 3 points from the dreaded hot seat of 4th from bottom. When Smith went we were 7th in the table. People can argue that 7th was perhaps a false position but how the hell is 3 points off 4th from bottom progress on where Smith left us? I repeat my earlier comment - how much longer can we afford to give him. Can we afford to wait for the new guy to arrive and reach his own assessment? I seriously hope that my pessimism is unfounded and Wagner does turn things round - starting today - but I do fear the worst. I am not a serial ' sack him ' person and cannot recall me calling for that action since the dreadful appointments of Adams and Gunn and I cannot come up with a name to replace him but I do believe that we have potentially a good squad and the right man could have us moving up the table again towards the top 6.
 
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1950canary said:
I fully accept that I only see the matches on Sky - even the red button works over here - plus the highlights available on TV, match reports and a match report from my son who still has a season ticket. As a side issue he has had a season ticket since I first took him with me over 30 years ago and until he took over a business from his Mum when we moved to France he used to go to about 75% of away games as well. He is now seriously considering whether he will renew next season, as are many who sit near him, because they are so angry at what they are seeing. As he said to me last night ' we never look as though we are in charge of a game even when we are in the lead and we just sit there waiting for the inevitable implosion' and he set out that in his opinion the problems will not be sorted out by the return of individuals as the problems go far deeper that that. Against Leeds he said we somehow undeservedly ended up 2-0 to the good but everybody knew that Leeds were the better side and would come good and win. We never looked like hanging on to that lead let alone increasing it because for the entire game nobody seemed to understand what their role was in whatever system Wagner is trying to initiate. Everything is a matter of opinion when individual players and Managers are talked about but results and the league table are facts not opinion. No team in that division should lose 6-2 at Plymouth. No team in that division should lose at Rotherham and never look like winning. The table shows that we are only 3 points from the dreaded hot seat of 4th from bottom. When Smith went we were 7th in the table. People can argue that 7th was perhaps a false position but how the hell is 3 points off 4th from bottom progress on where Smith left us? I repeat my earlier comment - how much longer can we afford to give him. Can we afford to wait for the new guy to arrive and reach his own assessment? I seriously hope that my pessimism is unfounded and Wagner does turn things round - starting today - but I do fear the worst. I am not a serial ' sack him ' person and cannot recall me calling for that action since the dreadful appointments of Adams and Gunn and I cannot come up with a name to replace him but I do believe that we have potentially a good squad and the right man could have us moving up the table again towards the top 6.
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Like you I haven't posted on here for quiet a while. I'm not sure why you focus on us being 3 points off being 4th from bottom, as only the bottom 3 get relegated and we are 8 points above the relegation zone. Interestingly if we had another 3 points we'd be one of 5 teams on 20 points and ignoring GD we'd be in 6th. 4 more points then we're 5th, small margins. In my mind we should have never have sack Farke, but we did. I can't see any justification in sacking Wagner at present, the start of the season showed that with the squad we've got, if all fully fit, we can compete with any team in this league, possibly with the exception of Leicester. Nearly any other team or manager in this league would have struggled with the injuries we've had. That's not, that there aren't issues that need resolving and we couldn't or shouldn't have done better even with the cards we had. For me the main issue is confidence. String 2 or 3 wins together and we'd be right back in the mix. Southampton are in fourth now, a few weeks ago everyone was talking about Martin getting sacked.
 
I can’t see the owners sacking Wagner any time soon, unless we drop into the bottom 3 in the league. When Wagner was appointed, I thought his recent track record at the time was not encouraging. We are going into the familiar ‘should we sack him or not’ scenario.
 
DUNCAN DONUTS said:
It's illegal to watch UK subscription Sky sports in France you criminal you
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No it isn't. We still can get a full satellite Sky package through a local provider which is both legal and expensive. As far as other points raised I have to say that most teams have injury problems so we are not alone in that and I fail to understand how the return of injured strikers is going to stop our defensive frailty. Hanley is still a good player but he seemed to struggle to understand his role last season. I really do hope Wagner can turn it round but he showed little sign of progress last season and this season is just as bad. I do accept that the current bottom 3 do seem to have little chance of survival which makes us a bit more secure but is that really the best we can hope for? Money is tight and getting tighter so we need a Head Coach that can get the best of the squad at his disposal. Can Wagner do that? The signs are not encouraging when the team still don't seem to know his system or their job within it.
 
Sky say it's illegal

https://www.sky.com/help/articles/viewing-sky-content-in-the-eu-faqs

Viewing Sky abroad
You're not entitled to stream Sky outside the UK using your Sky Go, Sky Kids, Sky Sports, and Sky Sports Box Office apps. Some Sky apps will allow you to download your favourite shows and movies over WiFi before you leave home to watch offline while you’re abroad.

Additionally, Sky Stream was designed to only be used at the subscription address so you won’t be able to view content outside the UK using your puck.

Certain rules mean people within the EU can stream content across all EU countries. As the UK is no longer part of the EU, we are not able to provide this service in the same way.


Bloody Brexit strikes again
 
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