HOW LONG DO WE GIVE HIM ?

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If we lose to Rovers on Sunday, the place will be even more toxic than at the end of Hughton's/Smith's reigns. That treatment will be blatantly unfair on Wagner, irrespective as to whether you support his tenure or not.
As for {insert unproven coach name}, quite frankly what is there to lose? At present we're heading in one direction and that isn't up, JW could get a tune out of the payers. As far as my personal view we need someone with disciplinarian skills, a Warnock for instance <yikes> to get us through the remainder of the season.
We can re-name ourselves Manchester United, the parallels are there.
 
1950canary said:
Little to lose Rick? Carry on as we are and disaster looms - win a few games and we start looking upwards again. The transfer window both ins and outs? Season ticket renewals - limit to supporters feelings and patience especially when money is tight. That's three for starters.
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I think I see the margins being narrower than some seem to think. We've been competitive in every game except Plymouth, where the players lost their heads and every sense of discipline. Blackburn is now a must win to be sure. Many fans' feelings are coloured by results and that gets worse the longer a bad run goes on, but what if a new coach comes in and results don't improve? Sack him and start again? Watford are level with us on 17 points using that approach. I'm not keen on caretaker coaches, so if we are going to make the change it has to be the right one, not a shot in the dark in the midst of a sporting director changeover. The international break buys some time, but if the bad run continues after that, then Knapper has time to appoint a new coach and set out his plan for the future and we start again.
 
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Sargent and Barnes are for more than just an attacking threat in Wagners system, they are our first line of defence in a high pressing system and they lead the press for the entire team. This is where the problems have stemmed from their loss, Idah and Hwang either aren’t those type of strikers or aren’t capable of matching the pressing style. It is a tough ask to fill the boots of those two as they are both very high intensity players. Wagner has so far been unable to find a solution or new system to fix this problem. Gibbs for Barnes seemed like a logical solution given his work rate or even Nunez.
 
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Very good point. In Wagner's tactics the two strikers drop back to press the opposition defenders when the ball is lost. Neither Idah or Ui-Jo are good at that, though the latter did much better at Sunderland. The problem position is behind the striker where I thought Gibbs could be effective, but he has disappointed so far. Núñez is better attacking, but needs to strengthen his pressing skills. Barnes could make a big difference when he returns.
 
I'm sorry but I am fed up with hearing excuses for why Wagners system hasn't worked so far. If you haven't got the players to suit the system - change the bloody system!! If you have the players but they are temporarily unavailable - tweak the bloody system!! The system, whatever it is, has not worked from the day he came and I repeat what I have said before - the players still do not seem to understand even now what their role in the system is. How much longer can we put up with this nonsense. My patience with this ran out completely last night watching Leeds play Leicester. Two Clubs who have faced far more squad changes and injuries than we have but two sides who knew exactly what their job was within whatever system changes there were due to sensible substitutions. Farke changed his system more in 90 minutes that we have since the season started and for the full game every player knew their role whatever system tweak there was. To think we let Daniel go and replaced him with Smith and then Wagner. It is time for Wagner and his so called bloody system to go.
 
1950canary said:
I'm sorry but I am fed up with hearing excuses for why Wagners system hasn't worked so far. If you haven't got the players to suit the system - change the bloody system!! If you have the players but they are temporarily unavailable - tweak the bloody system!! The system, whatever it is, has not worked from the day he came and I repeat what I have said before - the players still do not seem to understand even now what their role in the system is. How much longer can we put up with this nonsense. My patience with this ran out completely last night watching Leeds play Leicester. Two Clubs who have faced far more squad changes and injuries than we have but two sides who knew exactly what their job was within whatever system changes there were due to sensible substitutions. Farke changed his system more in 90 minutes that we have since the season started and for the full game every player knew their role whatever system tweak there was. To think we let Daniel go and replaced him with Smith and then Wagner. It is time for Wagner and his so called bloody system to go.
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Leeds & Leicester both relegated last year, both who have much greater depth in quality of their squad. One team which is managed by a coach who knows how to get a team out of this league. If only he was our coach !
 
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1950canary said:
I'm sorry but I am fed up with hearing excuses for why Wagners system hasn't worked so far. If you haven't got the players to suit the system - change the bloody system!! If you have the players but they are temporarily unavailable - tweak the bloody system!! The system, whatever it is, has not worked from the day he came and I repeat what I have said before - the players still do not seem to understand even now what their role in the system is. How much longer can we put up with this nonsense. My patience with this ran out completely last night watching Leeds play Leicester. Two Clubs who have faced far more squad changes and injuries than we have but two sides who knew exactly what their job was within whatever system changes there were due to sensible substitutions. Farke changed his system more in 90 minutes that we have since the season started and for the full game every player knew their role whatever system tweak there was. To think we let Daniel go and replaced him with Smith and then Wagner. It is time for Wagner and his so called bloody system to go.
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I think we need to agree to disagree on this one, 1950. Wagner's system worked very well when we had 5 wins and a draw at Southampton at the beginning of the season. Sargent was injured in the 5th of those games and Barnes shortly afterwards, taking away a vital element of the system ever since. Few teams could maintain their form having lost their two top strikers. Look at how we feared losing Holt in the Lambert era.

As for Farke, the oldest complaint I remember was about how late he left substitutions time after time. His system is fine, but it does require high quality players. Put Guardiola in charge of Huddersfield and see how he does. Wagner has been there and done that. My concern about change now is what happens if we change now and it fails - where do we go then?
 
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Considering refusing to go to home matches until wagner is sacked! poimtless going to watch us lose under his management every week
 
I get our main strike force is crocked, but the defensive errors are consistently by the same players, who for some reason are unstoppable at the expense of other capable players.

Bring in Phil Parkinson - he seems to have a rough idea how to organize and motivate players, which is all we need.
 
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Puncturedtractortyre said:
I get our main strike force is crocked, but the defensive errors are consistently by the same players, who for some reason are unstoppable at the expense of other capable players.

Bring in Phil Parkinson - he seems to have a rough idea how to organize and motivate players, which is all we need.
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You must be joking mate take it from me he is not what you need
- unless you really want to be in League One <laugh><laugh>
 
RiverEndRick said:
I think we need to agree to disagree on this one, 1950. Wagner's system worked very well when we had 5 wins and a draw at Southampton at the beginning of the season. Sargent was injured in the 5th of those games and Barnes shortly afterwards, taking away a vital element of the system ever since. Few teams could maintain their form having lost their two top strikers. Look at how we feared losing Holt in the Lambert era.

As for Farke, the oldest complaint I remember was about how late he left substitutions time after time. His system is fine, but it does require high quality players. Put Guardiola in charge of Huddersfield and see how he does. Wagner has been there and done that. My concern about change now is what happens if we change now and it fails - where do we go then?
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Again I would come at that from a different angle. If we have averaged less that a point a game over the last 26 games but got 16 points in a run of 6 games in that period surely that must show how appalling we have been over the other 20 games. As you say on this one off instance we will have to agree to disagree although I do agree that we have got to be careful about who we appoint. I have always thought that playing for Norwich has been considered a cushy number and we have usually been at our best under a disciplinarian like Saunders, Lambert and Farke.
 
Fair point, 1950, but those 6 games were when Hanley and Sainz were the only injuries. Last season it was both starting CBs and McLean and since those 6 it's been Sainz, Sargent, Barnes and Núñez. That said, yesterday's dire defensive performance has convinced me that we need a change to ward off relegation and start to rebuild a competitive squad under Knapper as Webber slips out the back door.
 
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