FPP to take full control

[kingkeane]

Oh, and I think 3 months is optimistic - I'd be cautious that FPP wouldn't want to inherit us at this point, given that our matchday revenue is at risk until we can guarantee no more stoppages for extended periods, and a vaccine appears at least 12-18 months away.

I could well envision a scenario where we end up with Donald trying to get rid of us and cut his losses, and nobody willing to take us. That's how bad this is. It's a complete disaster for this process.

make no mistake SD’s arse will be dropping out now imo. Especially if these buyers that are supposedly going through DD cool their interest because of all the uncertainty. There’s also the financial implications with the delay of the league and contracts running out. He’ll be losing money. The club is and always has been too big for him. Does he get out while he can or risk it all.

 

[Kittenmittons]

If Donald informs the 'lenders' that he can't pay/won't pay, it's a done deal ...

... that's already agreed.

Unfortunately not.

The agreement is that they would have the option to do so if he defaulted within 14 days of that happening, or <snip, was going to discuss the automatic floating conversion but it's irrelevant, just re-read, they have 14 days to exercise the right regardless of anything Donald does, it's entirely their choice to make>

The problem for us is that buying us would currently involve financing a financial black hole of indefinite length and severity, that was not there when the original agreement was made. This could linger for years, so if Donald isn't able to keep us running and is incurring big losses in the process, there is absolutely zero guarantee that anyone would come on board in that climate and agree to do exactly the same until they were sure it was 100% over.

A more likely scenario right now for me is that the EFL shut down everything and ask players to defer a high % of wages, clubs to effectively go into hibernation and this to be resolved without huge casualties. There will be other clubs that go under before us, I'd expect the EFL and football as a whole to try and find an effective way around this issue, but even if they do, it is far too uncertain for someone to be buying us or even 'falling into us'.

My primary worry now is the survival of SAFC as an entity. This isn't about Donald or FPP anymore.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Unfortunately not.

The agreement is that they would have the option to do so if he defaulted within 14 days of that happening, or <snip, was going to discuss the automatic floating conversion but it's irrelevant, just re-read, they have 14 days to exercise the right regardless of anything Donald does, it's entirely their choice to make>

The problem for us is that buying us would currently involve financing a financial black hole of indefinite length and severity, that was not there when the original agreement was made. This could linger for years, so if Donald isn't able to keep us running and is incurring big losses in the process, there is absolutely zero guarantee that anyone would come on board in that climate and agree to do exactly the same until they were sure it was 100% over.

A more likely scenario right now for me is that the EFL shut down everything and ask players to defer a high % of wages, clubs to effectively go into hibernation and this to be resolved without huge casualties. There will be other clubs that go under before us, I'd expect the EFL and football as a whole to try and find an effective way around this issue, but even if they do, it is far too uncertain for someone to be buying us or even 'falling into us'.

My primary worry now is the survival of SAFC as an entity. This isn't about Donald or FPP anymore.

If FPP can get the club on the cheap, which would now be the case, the savings would cover the black hole.

If Donald holds his hands up, and admits he's ****ed, FPP would have few better options than taking on the club ...

... which is why they became involved in the first place.

 

[Agent Black Cat]

It's not what people want to hear but it's the only option.

If there were 3 or 4 games left we could suspend the season and play on.

But some teams have a dozen games left, with the cups, which can't be squeezed in.

Allowing this season to disrupt next season is foolhardy, it just means prolonging the damage.

Everyone will just have to accept that this season can't be completed and plan for August.

That gives everyone time to evaluate their position and bunker down as best they can.

The problem is that too many clubs have spent beyond their means, relied on TV cash and only just kept the bailiffs from the door ...

... now the big white van has pulled up and two big blokes are getting out with crow bars.

Clubs have endlessly gambled with their futures, but the future has just arrived and there will be casualties.

Agreed. I can’t see any other option when you factor in that the players will need a break too.

 

[ISOE II]

Unfortunately not.

The agreement is that they would have the option to do so if he defaulted within 14 days of that happening, or <snip, was going to discuss the automatic floating conversion but it's irrelevant, just re-read, they have 14 days to exercise the right regardless of anything Donald does, it's entirely their choice to make>

The problem for us is that buying us would currently involve financing a financial black hole of indefinite length and severity, that was not there when the original agreement was made. This could linger for years, so if Donald isn't able to keep us running and is incurring big losses in the process, there is absolutely zero guarantee that anyone would come on board in that climate and agree to do exactly the same until they were sure it was 100% over.

A more likely scenario right now for me is that the EFL shut down everything and ask players to defer a high % of wages, clubs to effectively go into hibernation and this to be resolved without huge casualties. There will be other clubs that go under before us, I'd expect the EFL and football as a whole to try and find an effective way around this issue, but even if they do, it is far too uncertain for someone to be buying us or even 'falling into us'.

My primary worry now is the survival of SAFC as an entity. This isn't about Donald or FPP anymore.

FPP may already believe they can get the club for the loan money and that was their gamble. In effect, if they had bought the club they would have to bank roll it to survive. It could be if Donald is in the **** that they could have over paid. If they get the club by default the problem is as you say FPP couldn’t sell it, so they bank roll us or wind us up and that may not be something they want on their record. Time will tell I suppose. But you’re right no-one can agree a price at present so only Donald or FPP are likely owners or we go bust.

 

[Agent Black Cat]

Unfortunately not.

The agreement is that they would have the option to do so if he defaulted within 14 days of that happening, or <snip, was going to discuss the automatic floating conversion but it's irrelevant, just re-read, they have 14 days to exercise the right regardless of anything Donald does, it's entirely their choice to make>

The problem for us is that buying us would currently involve financing a financial black hole of indefinite length and severity, that was not there when the original agreement was made. This could linger for years, so if Donald isn't able to keep us running and is incurring big losses in the process, there is absolutely zero guarantee that anyone would come on board in that climate and agree to do exactly the same until they were sure it was 100% over.

A more likely scenario right now for me is that the EFL shut down everything and ask players to defer a high % of wages, clubs to effectively go into hibernation and this to be resolved without huge casualties. There will be other clubs that go under before us, I'd expect the EFL and football as a whole to try and find an effective way around this issue, but even if they do, it is far too uncertain for someone to be buying us or even 'falling into us'.

My primary worry now is the survival of SAFC as an entity. This isn't about Donald or FPP anymore.

If there is a default, do FPP get the club for the £9 million? Or is there a pre-determined lowish price of say £25m in the event of a default. I can’t recall what Donald said on BBC Newcastle but they paid Short around £9 million anyway right?

 

[The realist]

Do we have proof that if Donald defaults on this 10m that FPP take over?
Has this been confirmed by Donald or FPP?

 

[Kittenmittons]

If FPP can get the club on the cheap, which would now be the case, the savings would cover the black hole.

If Donald holds his hands up, and admits he's ****ed, FPP would have few better options than taking on the club ...

... which is why they became involved in the first place.

Nobody knows this. I don't want to get too far down the hypotheticals, but suffice to say that a risky deal that FPP were clearly aware was risky (judging by the nature of it) would be a hell of a lot more risky today than it was 6 months ago.

Just being realistic here, this has not made them more likely to step in because it's still completely unknown. Until there's an end in sight, they won't take us on, judging by seeing deals that were 95% done and due to complete this week falling through entirely - and these were both profit making!

 

[Kittenmittons]

If there is a default, do FPP get the club for the £9 million? Or is there a pre-determined lowish price of say £25m in the event of a default. I can’t recall what Donald said on BBC Newcastle but they paid Short around £9 million anyway right?

If there's a default they get it for 'nothing' except what they paid to SD as part of the loan, ie: $12m.

 

[Kittenmittons]

Do we have proof that if Donald defaults on this 10m that FPP take over?
Has this been confirmed by Donald or FPP?

It's in the charge sheet. They have 14 days if he doesn't pay (or tries to wind us up) to basically enact the clauses that would lead to them acquiring us.

 

[Iansun]

If there is a default, do FPP get the club for the £9 million? Or is there a pre-determined lowish price of say £25m in the event of a default. I can’t recall what Donald said on BBC Newcastle but they paid Short around £9 million anyway right?

I'd take what he said with a pinch of salt

 

[BigPete]

can't happen soon enough for me.

Same mate but this will delay the process unless it forces Donalds hand via having to use the loan to keep us running.

At least with this clause in play we can't go bust as the Americans can take over but only thing is would they still want too?

 

[The realist]

It's in the charge sheet. They have 14 days if he doesn't pay (or tries to wind us up) to basically enact the clauses that would lead to them acquiring us.

Was the charge sheet made public?
If so and they no longer deem us a worthwhile prospect could they just cut their losses (the 10m) and walk away leaving us rudderless ?

 

[Kittenmittons]

Was the charge sheet made public?
If so and they no longer deem us a worthwhile prospect could they just cut their losses (the 10m) and walk away leaving us rudderless ?

Yes the charge sheet is on SAFC's companies house filing history from the first week of November. The clauses are under conversion of floating charges.

Yes, that is possible. I think that neither Donald or FPP expected those clauses to be used in reality, as they'd indicate an apocalyptic scenario... unfortunately, that word probably applies here.

So yeah, if it's true that they're quibbling over a few million now (as is their right) I would suggest that they appreciate the margins of a business like football and know that it's not just a case of throwing money into a black hole to fix problems. If this situation is prolonged, there will be a very great unknown in which profitable teams will be far better set to ride out whatever happens next. We do not fall into that bracket, we are likely at this stage loss-making and 2 divisions below where we need to be to make a profit...

 

[The realist]

Yes the charge sheet is on SAFC's companies house filing history from the first week of November. The clauses are under conversion of floating charges.

Yes, that is possible. I think that neither Donald or FPP expected those clauses to be used in reality, as they'd indicate an apocalyptic scenario... unfortunately, that word probably applies here.

So yeah, if it's true that they're quibbling over a few million now (as is their right) I would suggest that they appreciate the margins of a business like football and know that it's not just a case of throwing money into a black hole to fix problems. If this situation is prolonged, there will be a very great unknown in which profitable teams will be far better set to ride out whatever happens next. We do not fall into that bracket, we are likely at this stage loss-making and 2 divisions below where we need to be to make a profit...

Concerning times then.
It seems all those who believe if Donald falls then FPP ride in on horseback are as ill informed as those who thought the Dell boys were coming in to bankroll us last year.
Nothing is ever as simple as some try to make out.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Concerning times then.
It seems all those who believe if Donald falls then FPP ride in on horseback are as ill informed as those who thought the Dell boys were coming in to bankroll us last year.
Nothing is ever as simple as some try to make out.

Is that what he just said?

 

[Kittenmittons]

Concerning times then.
It seems all those who believe if Donald falls then FPP ride in on horseback are as ill informed as those who thought the Dell boys were coming in to bankroll us last year.
Nothing is ever as simple as some try to make out.

I don't know what the agenda is here but I'd urge the same caution to everyone. Nothing should be taken for granted, but equally the whole thing is still very much up in the air (literally...)

For example, off the top of my head, the following would play a huge role:

1) When or if the season begins play again on any level (clubs could theoretically make up some of the deficit selling rights to watch via SAFCSEE etc)
2) When fans are allowed back into the ground
3) Whether any financial help will be offered to clubs suffering losses
4) Whether the virus is likely to lead to extended or localised quarantines/lockdowns again.

Without knowing those, you simply can't say that he would definitely need to spend the FPP cash, let alone whether he would be able to pay it back.

So I wouldn't rule anything in or out just yet, except to say that nobody is likely to move until we at least know the first four. I'd actually be worried about the business acumen, motives and resources of anyone buying football clubs at this stage.

 

[The realist]

I don't know what the agenda is here but I'd urge the same caution to everyone. Nothing should be taken for granted, but equally the whole thing is still very much up in the air (literally...)

For example, off the top of my head, the following would play a huge role:

1) When or if the season begins play again on any level (clubs could theoretically make up some of the deficit selling rights to watch via SAFCSEE etc)
2) When fans are allowed back into the ground
3) Whether any financial help will be offered to clubs suffering losses
4) Whether the virus is likely to lead to extended or localised quarantines/lockdowns again.

Without knowing those, you simply can't say that he would definitely need to spend the FPP cash, let alone whether he would be able to pay it back.

So I wouldn't rule anything in or out just yet, except to say that nobody is likely to move until we at least know the first four. I'd actually be worried about the business acumen, motives and resources of anyone buying football clubs at this stage.

Really sensible posts amongst a myriad of bullshit and wishful thinking.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Really sensible posts amongst a myriad of bullshit and wishful thinking.

Well stop posting it then ...

.... I doubt you even understand what KM is saying.

 

[Wackyjacky]

It's in the charge sheet. They have 14 days if he doesn't pay (or tries to wind us up) to basically enact the clauses that would lead to them acquiring us.

Probably a stupid question but if he defaults (or doesn't pay) and they don't decide to do anything in that 14 day period, what happens then?